EP.166 - Clint Mylmyok - Head Coach & GM of the Maryland Black Bears - Are You Coaching The Player Or The Person?

We break down how Maryland built a winning NAHL culture, why communication beats perfect systems, and what actually gets players recruited and promoted. Clint shares candid views on parents, leadership, roles, and the real skills that translate to NCAA hockey.

• defining the NAHL pathway and USHL movement
• player-led culture, standards, and leadership habits
• practice design, video literacy, and pattern recognition
• non‑negotiables: relentless pace, backcheck legs, team first
• communication on the bench and during special teams
• recruiting, relationships, and pro‑standard resources
• what schools ask: motor, compete, coachability, IQ
• aligning parents and players, shared messages
• roles over ego, earning trust before creativity
• why winning accelerates individual advancement

Get over to UpmyHockey.com, go to the UMH68 portion, and see what's available in your province... get your names on the watch list

Chapters

• 0:00 Talk Your Way To Winning
• 0:19 Show Open & Guest Intro
• 1:02 What The NAHL Really Is
• 7:32 From California To Notre Dame
• 13:15 Leaving Home And Growing Up
• 18:32 Parents, Advisors, And Boundaries
• 24:18 Transparency, Video, And Accountability
• 30:12 Coaching Without Playing Pedigree
• 36:05 Managing Egos Versus Xs And Os
• 41:12 Human First, Player Second
• 47:22 Culture: Fun, Life, And Balance
• 54:10 CTA: UMH68 Event Announcement
• 56:25 Players Must Do Their Homework
• 1:00:20 Don’t Be A Dud: Ask Better Questions
• 1:07:12 Building Maryland From Scratch
• 1:13:44 Recruiting, Resources, And Relationships
• 1:19:36 Identity, Roles, And Leadership
• 1:26:48 Practice Standards And Player-Led Rooms
• 1:34:20 Non‑Negotiables: Relentless And Team First
• 1:42:20 Communication As A Competitive Advantage

Transcript

Clint: 0:00

And I wish I could bottle it up and get guys to do it every game. But I'm like, why were we so good tonight? And they'll give you a reason. One kid will finally pipe up and go, we were talking. I'm like, yeah, you can do every system wrong and do your fork check wrong, but if you talk your way through it, you're gonna have more success. And if you do your system to a T and don't talk.

Jason: 0:19

That was the head coach and general manager of the Maryland Black Bears, Clint Milmock, and you are listening to the Up My Hockey podcast with Jason Podolin. Welcome to Up My Hockey with Jason Podolin, where we deconstruct the NHL journey, discuss what it takes to make it, and have a few laughs along the way. I'm your host, Jason Podolin, a 31st overall draft pick who played 41 NHL games, but thought he was destined for a thousand. Learn from my story and those of my guests. This is a hockey podcast about reaching your potential. Hello there. Welcome back, or welcome back to the Up My Hockey Podcast with Jason Podolin. I am your host, Jason Podolin, here for episode 166, episode 166 today with Clint Milmock of the Maryland Black Bears of the North American Hockey League. The North American Hockey League is a junior A tier two league in the United States. It uh is regarded by pretty much everybody as the second best junior league next to the United States Hockey League, the USHL. There are 30, how many teams are there? 20, I think there's 34 teams in the NAHL, all from like Anchorage all the way to the East Coast. So uh down to Texas, there they're it's all over the place with the divisions. Uh lots of players, lots of teams, lots of great hockey, lots of commitments out of that league to NCAA programs, uh, especially Div 1 and Div 3. And uh and yeah, there's a lot of movement from the NAHL to the USHL as well. So uh players may not start in the USHL, but they will start at the NAHL and and new uh United States Hockey League uh scouts players, GMs, or uh coaches and GMs will identify players uh to bring in and uh and bring them to their program. So there's a lot of cross-pollination when it comes to the NAHL. And uh and you will find out all about that today as we talk with uh with Clint Milmock. Uh Clint is in his eighth year with Maryland. Uh Maryland was an expansion team when he started. He was the head coach GM with no staff and uh and had to bring the team on board and up to speed and whatever that was, four to five months. And uh and yeah, obviously got his uh got his bruises there early, uh, but has developed Maryland into an absolute powerhouse. They're 18-3 this year uh on the season at the time of this recording, you know, the leading leading their division uh and and have been known uh to have great teams and uh and have built a very, very reputable and sought-after program there uh in in Maryland. So uh credit to Clint. Uh we talk about we talk about that, uh the culture aspect, the recruitment aspect, uh uh what it takes to be a player, all the stuff you'd expect from an Up My Hockey podcast. Uh there are some really great lines in this one uh when it comes to winning, when it comes to uh uh how what is the number one key for a player to advance uh and to reach their potential that he has seen. We talk about parents and their involvement with players, uh do's and don'ts. We talk about leadership, we talk about communication and uh and how and how important he he deems it to be, how he runs his locker room, um what it takes to win and why it's important to win, uh, especially at his level, what that means for a player advancement, what that means for a character and uh and your reputation. Uh so yeah, this was uh almost an hour and a half, I believe. Uh we cover a ton of ground. Uh Clint is uh we we don't we didn't talk as much about Clint's personal story as I would have liked, uh, which tends to happen sometimes on these when we get on great discussions. I just let the let the program go. But uh we do talk about it a bit, but he was, you know, essentially uh an unconventional coach when it comes to at the pro level, or at the level he's at, I should say, with uh with the NAHL, uh, because he wasn't really a player himself. You know, he he was a player that he said didn't have a passion enough for it as a player and then got back into the game uh because he found a love for hockey. Uh he had a love for hockey, just not as a player, and uh and didn't really know how he would fit in if he could fit in without an actual playing, uh, without playing experience, and uh, and obviously got his foot in the door and he talks about that. Uh, but I really like that aspect of the of his journey, uh, you know, to be able to get to where he's at, and been able been offered now pro jobs and and at higher levels and has turned them down because he loves the situation there in Maryland. But you know, develop himself personally, to to develop his craft and his skills to be at the level he's at, to uh to run the program that he's at, I think is super compelling. So uh I just wanted to recognize that fact that I think that what he's doing there is great, and I love I love his story, but the conversation itself is is pretty much uh directed around all things development and all things that I believe that you'll be curious to hear about. So without further ado, let's bring you uh my guest for episode 166. That's the head coach and general manager of the Black Bears of the North American Hockey League, Clint Milmock. Welcome to the podcast, head coach and GM of the Maryland Black Bears of NHL, Clint Milmock.

Clint: 5:52

Thanks for having me. This is a senior show. There's a lot a lot of good insights, so happy to be here.

Jason: 5:57

Perfect. I'm sure you're gonna add a few. Uh I I know I gave you the brief before we started that uh I'm a bit of a neophyte when it comes to the NAHL, and it's a fantastic league. I know that, but I don't know much about it. So I think for my audience, um, they're gonna be coming at it for me, and I think it'll be a great chance to chat about where you're playing and you know how you advance players and all that good stuff. So uh looking forward to the talk.

Clint: 6:20

Yeah, I mean the the North American Hockey League is I mean, it's based. We got teams in you know, up in Alaska to the the Midwest, um obviously the Atlantic region, East Coast. So we were we were in Maine last weekend, um, played a weekend series there. So it's there's teams everywhere. So I I like our conference to be honest, because we're located where majority of schools are and and which is on the east coast. So we think we have an advantage in terms of you know commitments and and schools being at games, and and you know, it seems advantageous for us when you can point to a school and say, hey, we got schools watching, not just online, but they're actually standing in in the building. So that gives us an advantage, I think, with some recruiting, and and but then in the end, schools recruit top programs, and we think we're one of them. So we're happy to to know that we we have some good traction with with schools and and do a good job of uh placing our guys, even with the new the new landscape. But it's a good junior A, tier two league. It's it's it's um, I think prepares kids very very well for for uh for NCAA. It's a tough league, it's not easy to score, and you gotta kind of earn your ice, as they say. So I think it prepares guys.

Jason: 7:30

Yeah, awesome. Yeah, I can't wait to dive in more. I wanna I want to start though with you, uh as uh most of my listeners know, I'm down here in Court d'Allean, Idaho, with a previous podcast guest, uh Jeremy Milmock, your brother, who is the head of hockey here, and uh and so which brought us together at that Minnesota showcase. And uh and yeah, I mean I in his story, you know, I found out that he was came up to Notre Dame as uh as a young man and as a player and staying at the dorms and and you were with them. So uh maybe we could start there, like that that uh that pit stop or that uh that journey up up to Wilcox, Saskatchewan, and how that kind of formed where the who you are today and and uh and and what you're doing now.

Clint: 8:11

Yeah, I think the the top question we got asked at when we were at Notre Dame was what are you doing here? We were in California at the time, pre-Gretzky, no one knew about hockey really. And um, you know, our dad's from small town Saskatchewan, a couple hours away by the U.S. border. And so apparently I asked my parents, um, where can we go to play better hockey and and compete? Because at 15, around that age in California, parents were like, listen, like hockey's going nowhere. So focus on football, baseball, or something different, golf. And um, so if you're a hockey player, everyone left to go to Minnesota, Boston, or you know, or Massachusetts or or Canada. So my with our roots in in Saskatchewan, uh my grandparents there, my my parents felt that was a good stop for us. So um my uh Jared and I, and our older brother Spencer, too. Um he was in Boston actually, near Boston, uh the year before. And I think he spent more time in Boston than in prep school. So my parents said he needs to join his brothers in in Saskatchewan. So that's how we kind of ended up there, and and you know, it it's it's a life, a life, um, I guess uh in terms of networking and and hockey, it's crazy. Like I still run into the guys we met on our journey in Saskatchewan more than I do probably going to university in in terms of the hockey world and how many how many connections there are.

Jason: 9:37

Yeah, that's wild. What was uh, you know, briefly coming from California to uh a renowned program at the time in Notre Dame, uh obviously still is it still is something that people recognize and is a well-known brand. Uh, what was it like for three California boys rolling off the uh rolling off the bus or whatever the heck you got there and your your your initial experience?

Clint: 9:58

There's one pad of smooth concrete in that town at the time is right by the ranks. So being California kids and and probably three or four other kids from California joined us too, like older and in our age. So they all we all kind of came out there together. And so being California kids, the first thing we did was was build some skateboard ramps in the middle of the parking lot. And some old guy walked by and was giving us crap saying, What the hell are you guys doing? And I think my older brother, Spence, kind of gave it to him and skateboarding like we did, and then it ends up being Barry McKenzie, who was the the guy that coaxed all these NHL stars, cool um president at the time or principal. And and uh so a lot of a lot of people would laugh with us going, it's funny went from the the outcasts to the kids that came back from from Thanksgiving or Christmas time bringing gifts and selling them for for extra cash. So a lot of guys are wearing Oakley and Quicksilver and and Billabog Sherpa. When the culture shift in Wilcox, Saskatchewan due to us, I think, at times.

Jason: 11:01

Oh, that's fantastic.

Clint: 11:03

It was fun, like you know, really seeing what hockey was too. I remember being on the ice with guys. So I I got my first game in organized hockey there was like Frank Kovacs, Mike Sillinger, and Jamie Heward were on the same team. And I think so. I'm like, these guys were all first round picks in the Western League, and a couple were first round picks in in the NHL. So like some of these guys had full mustaches. I was 16, 15, and I remember just going, what do we like? How? How is this possible? So it was really touching in a hurry, like what what it's like to compete, how heavy it was, and and how much they're into it. I mean, it's a lifestyle, right? So we we got uh quick uh lesson in terms of what the players and and the play was like and learning how to navigate those bumpy roads. And it's not easy, you're leaving home and there's calls, obviously. I don't want to be here. I'm sure we had all had a couple of those, and yourself included, where you're not sure at a young age when you leave home. It's not easy. And uh luckily, honestly, luckily, we had an older brother there uh and some other guys that we could kind of uh hang out with and and confide in during during the tough times. But I I loved it. Um it was freedom for us at a young age for whatever reason. I I felt comfortable leaving home and wanted to, and and uh having brothers there certainly helped.

Jason: 12:19

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, a lot of big decisions for families at that age, you know, what's too young and what's not, and you know, is the player ready? And you know, you never you never really know until you're there, I guess, you know. But uh it seems like the wise to stick it out, or or uh, you know, you get through those tough times and it's some of the best times you'll ever remember, you know, if you can get through it.

Clint: 12:38

Absolutely. I mean, that the the answer for my parents were you you decided you wanted to do this, so deal with it, figure it out, and and um, you know, this this is something you gotta learn how to how to do on your own and and figure out you're not coming home. So I think that was kind of the message. Uh my parents were always like that, though, when it came to coaches, whatever, talk to your coach, they'll talk to us. And they could have been pastile a parent in terms of you know, maybe we'll look at somewhere else, but they never were. They're always like, stick it out, figure it out, have kind of have adult conversations at a young age and learn how to navigate those waters. And and you find after a while when you're younger and do it early, like it's not that bad. And coaches actually um respect that and they enjoy young young kids that have those those mature conversations.

Jason: 13:23

I agree. Do you feel uh that's actually been a topic of the pod before, and since you bring it up, might as well dive into it. Like, how do you feel that has changed, if it's changed at all with uh with the players that come through at the ages that you see them at? I mean, roughly 18 to 20, I would guess, is is is the majority of your players. Uh, do they it is it parents calling in this day and age still? Is it agents? Do the players are the players comfortable? I realize that it's you know each each kid is different, but just if you're speaking generalities, what what do you see?

Clint: 13:52

So my I think my first year coaching, I had a parent try and come up to me and say something about his kid, and I just say, go grab your kid. And he's like, Well, no, I said, No, go grab your son. Like, he he deserves to be part of this conversation. If you're gonna talk to me about him and how we're playing them, this is gonna be a group talk, so there's no messages missed. I got patience for it a little bit because it doesn't happen that often, to be honest. Uh it's rare, but if it does happen, I I want the kid there, and that way there's no messages that are misconstrued, or there's no drop message or half a message. And so I've had those talks with with kids, and maybe in since I've been in Maryland two two times. I think one time I had my phone, I held it up in the air on the bus, and I said, Why is your dad calling? And kids are embarrassed. So we had an incident maybe one time before. I said, You gotta handle I tell kids, handle your parents. Like, uh they're not my parents, and I don't want to talk to them um unless they want to know where the hotel is. I don't think it's right. I think you have to grow up and come to me and give me the respect and or or or assistant coaches the respect uh that we deserve. Um, we're not tyrants. Um, we're we're fair. I call firm but fair. Like I always feel like as long as I give a kid a um a good roadmap that that in terms of how do I play more, get more ice, and and then we can go to video and whatnot, like we we don't just say work harder. So I feel like we put in so much work that we're due that respect. And I think kids gotta learn how to how to have those conversations, like I said earlier. So yeah, it it's still there. You see it sometimes, man. But you see it in pro hockey too. Why why why do some players not make it? There's a lot of interference through family members, and at some point, GMs will say the the juice isn't worth a squeeze. So a lot of times they don't hear that. The players don't know why, they just get trade, and I think that that in itself isn't fair. So I'd rather the players know this is what's going on and you need to handle it. And and I've had that talk. I don't need to talk to your parents, I don't care if they like me, I don't need more friends. So I I think you the focus needs to be on you, and but you got to handle it. And if they don't, then I don't I mean, listen, man, it it's a business, and I don't mind finding some some kid a place to play, but I want them to know what they're what the deal is and what's going on and be really upfront about it, so there's there's no guessing.

Jason: 16:08

Right, yeah, no, super fair, transparency is king, I say, and uh usually is the best policy. The uh I think that's a I mean, I think that's important for parents to know though. Like I, you know, I've coached long enough at the at the amateur levels here now with with different players and different families that uh that it makes the coach's job so hard. And and I know it happens at junior too, where like the message isn't the same at home or it's a different message, and then the player's conflicted, and you know, it doesn't help the player, or it's always a victim mentality, right? Like, oh, it's always this, and it's like there's no accountability from home, which makes the player have much less accountability at the rink. Uh maybe just touch on that, like a message to parents. If I mean, if you have one, about like how to guide a player right now and how to how to do them the best service that you can as parents.

Clint: 16:58

Yeah, uh so obviously I got nephews at play, and and at some point, you know, they they want some feedback from a different perspective, like, hey, did you watch my shifts? And uh, my first thing I I ask is, Well, what are your systems? Like, what is he where does he want you to stand in in D zone, a neutral zone? So that right off the hop, that's a conversation I have with kids about their parents. Say, listen, they don't know like our conversations, they don't know that we when we do video where I want you to stand. So if they want to get on on a zoom call and sit down and ask questions, I'm actually okay with that. So at least we're on the same page, and now I won't do it for everyone, but if it's that important to a parent to give you direction, at least let it be good direction. Let them see the game through my eyes. Like was I always say I want you the player to understand what I'm watching through my eyes, first of all. This is structurally speaking, not like in terms of their skill set. So, but I want them to know, like, hey, D zone, you're supposed to stand like this. This is our four check B here. Now, when it comes to creativity, then that's what I want to I want to hear the player tell me, like, here's what I'm seeing, here's what I want to trying to do. And so now we're on the same page, and and that's where I think parents are lost. They just see like, oh, he's not in the power play. I'm like, well, and I have this talk with schools, by the way. Why isn't your top your one of your top scorers who's committed on the power play? I'm like, why isn't your your recruit understanding our structure and our our breakout? He seems to not know where to stand or or what we're doing, like so. I mean, it that that happens with schools too. So there's a lot of balance, man. It's not that easy, it's not for everyone. Uh, you gotta have a thick skin. Uh, but we we do try and provide like insight if if they really want it, and that way, you know, it's funny when people call on behalf of their their player or their their clients, some advisors, I'll listen. And after a while, I'm like, okay, did you ask them these series of questions? One, two, I give them like five. I'm like, did those do those come up? Did their work ethic off the ice come up? Did they tell you they were late for uh video? Did they or whatever it may be, right? And if they don't know, it kind of opens up their eyes to go, yeah, I'm just getting one side of it. And I think that's where patience comes in, where it's like we have to all understand like what what the roadmap is, uh, what the messages have been. And I always tell them, like, listen, if the kid, if the kid's not gonna apply what we're telling him, then then there's an issue, and you gotta understand you can't just go off of what he's telling you. It's not fair to the coaches. Um, and some coaches maybe don't give messages. I've I've heard those stories where what does he tell you, or what have you been told, just figure it out, or they don't really give me time. So you hear that too, but I like to think um when I sit a kid, or if I do sit a kid, we can go to video and go, you tell me why I should play you. Give me give me three reasons based on what we just watch. And a lot of times you'll find if they're really good at self-assessing, they're like, You're right, I gotta fix it. And we just have like adult mature conversations, and yeah, like I say, it's a lot of work, but I really want kids to not guess and wonder what's going on and why they're sitting. I think sometimes you gotta work hard with the kids that aren't playing as much, maybe, and help them um understand what they need to do and be fair and and give them a reason to to be in the lineup, right? And and and um with a lot of advisors, schools, parents, like you're it's like a kid when you recruit a kid and a scout tells me he wants to play in Maryland. I'm like, well, what does advisor say? Well, I didn't talk to him. What did the school say? I didn't talk to them. What did the parents say? Like the kids, it's not just the kids anymore. It's it's really a lot of people involved, which is fine, it's kind of the way it is.

Jason: 20:33

Yeah. With with your philosophy there, um, which I admire and and promote and condone and try to model, uh where did you get that from? Because as you said, like not everybody is dialed that way, right? Not everybody does take the time or or think the message is important. Like, what when did that become an important part of your of your coaching style and practice?

Clint: 20:54

Um, early on, I I felt I used to do a ton of video. Like I didn't have a couple things I didn't have when I started coaching, I didn't have um assistant coaches in junior, I had volunteers, and I didn't have big budgets to like just get rid of guys and pay for a new player. So I guess what I had to do? I had to get inside their minds and develop guys. I had players that were this happens every year, if I guys that were close to being cut to being having to develop them or wanting to develop them, and they turn into one of our top players. So I think it comes from that a little bit. Obviously, your upper upper game, you should have a little bit of uh say in how you handle situations, but also working in the business world, um, being an assistant coach at some point, and sitting there and going, man, like we're the we're not doing enough for these kids. Um, or I I'd do it differently. Like, you get to really learn from listening too. And I think a lot of people aren't great listeners. So just being around hockey people, and I've had some good mentors and guys that when I work with them, they were too cool to get my opinion when I was when I didn't really I wasn't involved in coaching. I remember sitting at a bar with uh a GM who's in the Western League now, and I remember him asking me about line combinations, like, why is he asking me? Like, but he he he thought I knew something because in our conversations he'd say something and I would counter it. I wasn't afraid to speak my mind. He's like, What and then he kind of looked at me and goes, Well, what do you mean by that? And then after a while, they start realizing, okay, you know something, and they weren't afraid to get to get input. So I think part of that too is is um I guess utilizing the the people around you as well and and seeing how how top guys do it. I think the best coaches and administrators are guys who who want to talk the whole time and um let let people hear their voice, they actually want to listen.

Jason: 22:48

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, the uh I love that. So the the idea of having at least at the beginning of your coaching career, having you know, maybe some players that would have been cast off by other programs, you know, you can't have a a huge recruitment funnel. Uh so you got to you have to make the best with what's there, which is you know, utilizing the potential out of each player, which is something that I speak about all the time with my my hockey business and the mindset training and stuff is like, you know, how do we how do we become the best person player we we can be? You know, and that's sort of the the equation that I'm that I'm proposing to anyone that I work with all the time is like, well, what's missing? Like, what can we add? What can we do? Um, so you sounds like you took that that philosophy. I mean, from a coaching standpoint, one by necessity, but two, um, I mean, I've you saw you saw the fruits of the labor too. Like that's really an exciting part of the process, isn't it?

Clint: 23:39

Yeah, and you you learn learn how to how to um uh develop or enhance skill sets and and get the most out of the players. Uh like my first year of being in junior A ever, uh we lost nine games all year. I I recruited my ass off, and and I was always told the the better you recruit, the better of the coach you are, which is really true. And so we had a really good team. And the next year I lost a lot of guys, lost all my top scores, and and we we started like four and one, then we lost like eight straight. I mean eight straight. And I as a young coach or first kind of second year coach, you're stressing every night, and then I finally just said, you know what, we gotta we gotta I gotta really get to know these players and and get and find out what's going on. Like what's your problem? How do we fix it? And asking those questions with some guys, you can see you see body language, you're just not into it. And so you have some heart to hear, you learn how to talk as well. I think I think um coaching youth hockey and young kids that don't don't really want to be there, and how do you make it fun and how do you get them to to work? Um, is just as important as when you get to the NHL and you gotta learn how to massage egos. It's not about because you probably you can probably tell me more about that, but I don't think it's about X's and the O's as much as how do I get this guy to skate hard or back check through this, and and you got a GM saying play this guy more. And I mean it's it's a lot, it's a lot of um more so managing than it is. I mean, every every guy in the NHL knows what a fore check is and a 1-3-1 and what you're supposed to do, but does he want to do it? And so that's at our level, it's not always that different. You're trying to motivate kids. What's what's and I always say, What's the carrot when you talk about players in your room, like in your office, like how do we get this guy to do something? And it's not just me, it's a question I ask my assistant coaches, and I think that's important too, is utilize your staff and don't be a dictator. And and there's I tell players like at some point on the bench, I gotta be a dictator and and and just do what do what we tell you. Um, but before that, like we we want a lot of in interaction with assistant coaches and give them some room to like also develop. And I tell you what, man, when you go to go on the ice and listen to a coach talk and the terminology, you learn a lot, a hell of a lot more than just being the guy talking. And so, yeah, don't learn how to um develop mindsets as as much as skill sets, I think is really important because we we try and find mentally tough players, and what does that mean? And I guess it means kids that we can push and motivate uh without pushing them out of the game, and and there is a special circumstance these days on how you talk to kids, and you can't just be you know barking at them and bitching at them. That doesn't work.

Jason: 26:25

Yeah, you're one of the things that I say when people ask me about like, well, what makes what you do different? Um, and I said, Well, there's I mean, it's it's not really different. Is this maybe a different, a slightly different approach? But like I I often talk about like coaching the person before you coach the player, you know, or getting to know the person before you coach the player. And I think like when we're talking about unlocking guys or you talk about the carrot, like that's that's psychology, right? Like that's that's human nature, that's a guy's personality. And I think if you don't, if you discount that as a coach and you're just talking X's and O's all the time, like you're missing the piece where that juice is as you're talking about, right? Like what makes him tick? Like, what is he, what motivates him? What's he scared of? Like, not that it's counseling or therapy, but it's like you need to know these things, I think. And then once you kind of know the person and you can develop the person, then the player follows. Um, is that is that kind of it sounds like that's what you're you're doing there, you and your staff.

Clint: 27:22

Yeah, I mean, I that's that's the fun part where you're on the bench and you're telling the kids something and it's not hockey terminology, it's it's maybe something that's life, right? Um, I think getting to know your players is is really important. Like, how many coaches really know? Like, uh, this guy's got you know three sisters and a brother, or he's got a brother that's a pro ball player, or whatever. Like, just play being an assistant coach is is fun. The players talk to you and they want to ask you questions, they want to come to you with with complaints or gripes. And as an assistant coach, I would I would always tell kids this question is for the big guy, so he's not a bad guy, he's very conversational, it's actually really funny. So, like, get it get to know your coach too. But I think it goes both ways. Like the head coach has to get players, and that's something I've tried to do uh a little bit more over the years, is like really sit down with the players and when they come in the office, like bring them in and don't talk hockey. Ask them other questions. What did you do this weekend? What do you do for fun here in Maryland, even? Or do you flip what what are your hobbies? Like, I some coaches tell their guys when you're here, it's all business. You're not golfing, you're not doing this, you're not doing that. Where I'm the opposite. I'm like, I want you to have fun when you're here in your days off. We work so hard, and it's such a long year that on our day off, I want you, I do want you to hit the links with your buddies if you golf. I do want you to I want to tell you where some fishing spots are, you know, around the rink or in Maryland where you can go um, you know, go fly fishing or or whatever it may be that a kid might be into. Um getting to know your players is important. Like I honestly found out one of my top players uh this weekend, his brother is like uh pro skateboarder. And that that hits me, hits home for me because I grew up skateboarding and surfing and uh was part of part of our life's lifestyle growing up. So it's just the more you the more you know about your players, the more fun it is, and the more you kind of they're not talking to you as um, you know, someone that's above them or superior. Like I want it to be like I'm here with you, and and yeah, there you I can't be your best friend. Um, but I gotta be someone that that we can talk on many different wavelengths and not just coach player. I think that's boring. I think it's old school, and I don't think it's fun for players when you're just like talking hockey and 24-7. No, I want them to be conversational in hockey by the time they're done. I want their IQs to raise, but I want it to be um a program where kids come in and and they can walk in my office and and and have a conversation. It's not always hockey, and and you do have those conversations, life stuff. It could be something going on at home or whatever. I want them to to know they can come in and talk where I have had those talks with the kids. I'm like, I don't have an answer for you. I'm not equipped for certain conversations, but here's someone I want you to talk to. And I'll pick up the phone and call that person right there and um say, hey, here's going through this. You need to talk to them. And I want you guys to work things out. Um and I'm not a problem solver but for everything, but I do want them to have be comfortable enough to kids these days, man, like it's tough. Like it's they play hockey 24-7, and if they don't get what they want right away, it's really a struggle for some. Like they're like, why am why am I why am I wasting all this time and I haven't got a commitment yet? Or school hasn't called this year. Like there's a lot on the plate that we don't even think about uh that players go through as well. So so that part, you gotta I I like to know what's going on in their heads at times, and and I think they they need to be comfortable having those talks.

Jason: 30:50

Yeah, I agree. Take a short break from the conversation to tell you it is umh 68 time. That is the Up My Hockey 68, the invitational event that is running throughout Western Canada this 2026. We have released the watch lists on the UpmyHockey.com website. So you should get over to UpmyHockey.com, go to the W uh the Umh68 portion, and see what's available in your province. We are unleashing uh a female event in BC, in Saskatchewan, and in Manitoba this year, uh different age groups on that. So get to get um get your eyes on on where we're coming, uh, who we are uh catering to, and get your names on the watch list. Uh another uh another opportunity with UMH68 is for people who want to be involved in it from a sponsorship category. Had some amazing sponsors last year, Biosteel, uh Elite Prospects. Uh we had um we we had lots of involvement from local companies, and uh and it was just uh it was a fantastic, fantastic 2025 season. Uh but as always, we're looking to grow. Uh, one of the things that I take pride in with the UMH 68 is keeping the costs low. For what the players get at our events, uh the the value is is so recognizable when you compare it to other showcases, other events that go on. And for for me, I don't want to raise the prices to match the value. I would actually like to lower the prices so it makes it it makes it attainable for every player that has earned an invite to get there. And we can only do that uh with the sponsorship dollars and with the people that want to get involved and donate to the scholarship fund. So if you are somebody that's an individual that wants to support young hockey players to come to a great development showcase event, uh then by all means, uh please reach out. Uh if you are a company owner, whether it be a local company or a provincial company or a national company that'd like to get behind female uh and male youth hockey, uh, that really supports the development of the person behind the hockey player. One of the things that my hockey prides itself in, then by all means, please reach out. Uh we'd love to get you involved and we'd love to make this be the place uh for development in uh in Western Canada. So uh thanks for tuning in. Uh UMH68. Again, the watch lists are out. Check it out. Now let's get back to the conversation. Let's flip it back on the player just quickly on that topic. Like I I've I've had discussions with players before, right? They're going they're going to a camp. Let's say they're going to a junior. Let's say they're going to your camp. And I'll be like, so what do you know what Maryland's done in the last two, three seasons? Like, do you know if they've made the playoffs? Do you know, do you know anything about their team? Do you know anything about their coach? And and 90% of the time the answer is no, right? Like these guys don't aren't invested. It's not curious. And and so just like me speaking on that human side again, is like, I really encourage the players, like, get curious about the people that are there. Like, you should authentically want to know. One, because it's good. If you think you want to play there, you want to know about it. But two, it's like, what a great thing to have a conversation about. If they knew you were at Notre Dame or, you know, or ask you a question about somebody that was there. Or, you know, I think the onus is on the players too, to be available and to also engage, you know, with with their coaches to help build that relationship as well. I think, you know, when players put all the onus on the coach to, you know, to make every first uh point of communication, like that that is a hard person to reach, too, right? So I think I think there is some onus on them. I don't know what what's your what's your thoughts on that?

Clint: 34:32

Yeah, we actually when when my players go on school visits, I'm like, what questions are you asking them? And they'll give me the standard ones, like, those are terrible. I'm like, get away from hockey and and like, what do you know about this coach? He played here, did this, just like so. I give them some insight and I actually tell them, send me some questions. What do you gonna what do you want to talk about? And I'll say, Well, how about these two? Add these two. I think I think that's more interesting for them when you talk to them. So I don't tell them everything, but I do tell them don't be a dud. Like I have a conversation on the ice, and like, even on the bench, if the players aren't talking, I'm like, holy dudsville, like we need to talk about our shift. So I I I do bring that up quite a bit. Like, don't be a dud. Like, come on, our bench can't be a quiet bench is terrible. We gotta have conversations. Um, so I think I think I think that part is important, and then you know, absolutely like I've had kids who played for me and their dads went to school with me, and the kid had no idea his dad went to school with me. I'm like, how does your dad not bring that up at some point? Like, oh, there's so tunnel vision and focused on like hockey hockey, and like I'm like, okay, there's other things in life besides just hockey and learn what's out there, and I think that's really important. Like you can talk to a coach and notice, like, or his he's got my going elite prospects, he's like, he's got 10 relatives at play. I'm like, well, there you go, there's a conversation piece, you know, and you find out more, and it just makes it more more interesting. Like, it's no different than investments. And if you want to invest in something, you should probably know about it and do some research and not just go, I like it because I saw one thing, like you gotta make it interesting for the coaches too. And and I love being challenged respectfully, obviously, but I like being challenged on different things or being asked questions uh outside of hockey too. And a lot of players don't have that in them, or they're not top. But I think I think that's real life stuff too, is how to be conversational and and how to not be a dud.

Jason: 36:27

Yeah, I love that. Don't be a dud. Uh when it comes to you and going back to to your playing days, like you kind of had an unconventional route to you know to being in the position you're at right now. Like at what point did you turn off the the hockey player aspirations and and turn on the hey, I want to be involved in the game and and uh let's see where it takes me?

Clint: 36:47

Yeah, the hockey playing aspirations, I enjoyed more of the off-fi stuff. So that was for me, I didn't enjoy as much as you needed to, like with the hockey side. So that was a pretty, pretty quick and easy exit. Um for me. I I you know went home when I was younger and I was surfing and hanging out in California, and and then I walked in the kitchen after a surf session, and my mom had like three applications for university on the table. I'm like, what's that? She's like, You're going to school. I'm like, Am I? She's like, Yes. Pick a university and and you're not gonna, you know, wing it here. So so that's how we grew up. It was like you were gonna get an education, you can't just dick around and and um life can't be that easy, right? So yeah, so so went to university and and got my degree, which a lot of people were surprised, I guess, but I thought I actually thought university was easier than high school, so that was a pleasant surprise for me, and then um, but I worked hard at it for the most part, and then yeah, I worked in hockey, so I worked in in pro hockey and I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I know I wanted to be involved in hockey, and so I did anything, I didn't care. I was a I was the type of guy that would have lived in camper van and and done anything to work in the sport, so I had some connections from Notre Dame that um got me involved early. And tell you what, man, like I look back now and I go, what was I doing? Like I'm an idiot. Um, and I wasn't even in on the hockey side, it was more the business side, but I wanted to get involved, and I just slowly kind of found my way. I didn't force it, which is probably wrong. I tell guys now, like, put your foot in the door, man, and and ask questions and and push yourself toward what you're you want to do. If it's in hockey, you want to coax, then then start and and don't be afraid, which I maybe wasn't afraid, but I kind of thought maybe I didn't play like a lot of pro, like if hardly any any high-level hockey or pro. So I'm probably not suitable or or you know, able to jump into that area. Yeah, and but then I just said screw it, like I want to coach and get involved in hockey. Then and so I had some more hockey operational stuff on the on the player personnel side, and then at some point I just I just kind of wasn't making much money, and I was like, what am I doing? So I got out of hockey for a bit, and then Jeremy's the one who got me into coaching. I think he had no volunteers left, and he had a 16U team that needed a coach, and there wasn't many players, and and he's like, You want to coach? I'm like, Well, sure, like I hate to go to tournaments in Long Beach and Vegas and LA, like this is great, living in Idaho. And so he's the reason I got into coaching, and then and then uh one of the players on my team, his grandpa is from Canada, and he came to watch early on, and then he came back like in January and said, Hey, how many new players did you get? Your team looks different. I'm like, New players, so we got no new players. He's like, What do you mean? So we got nothing new. And he's like, What did you do? I'm like, Well, we did a lot of stuff, but we kind of basic like my first practice plan after one drill. I threw it over the boards and we worked on fundamentals and just until you pass the puck to where I want you to, we're not doing anything fun. So, so you gotta learn right away how to coach. So that's kind of what got me into it. He actually ran a junior A team in Canada, and uh, he wasn't with them anymore, but he was involved a little bit, so that's how I actually got my first job. They're like, You gotta get this guy, and he he's gonna be great for our program. And so that's how I got involved in the coaching side was really through my brother and and having a real good passion for it. And I just haven't I didn't know where it was gonna take me, and and um, you know, eight years later in Maryland, here we are. And I I I've had opportunities with higher levels, and but I'm in a good spot right now, and and and it's a good place to be.

Jason: 40:41

That's awesome. That's so fun. So uh so kind of out of the uh pulled out of the abyss and and and and into into the minor hockey realm, and then one thing leads to another, and then all of a sudden you're back up in Notre Dame, and um that that that thing comes full circle for you, and you're and you're coaching in the SJ up there and uh and then off to Maryland. What was uh what was the bigger transition? Being a coach there in the SJ or moving off to the States and joining a new league?

Clint: 41:10

Well, I would say, I mean, at Notre Dame, I knew what what we had and and I knew the the lay of the land and you know pretty well connected, so we still got some good players, and then Maryland was here's your team. I think I started in um late April, and then we're an expansion team. So I was hired very late. A lot of teams they start a year ahead of time, so they have a full year. And I had you know May and May and June. The draft is in June, and so the process is you have you have X amount of tenders every year where you can offer a player like a player contract, and was it expansion team? You got like 15 at the time, but I had like before June 4 or whatever the the draft date is, I had a month to like get 15 players. So even the guy is the league officer, like can't believe he got all these things filled out in time. And literally the last day, I was midnight, and I was talking to a kid from California who was at his prom. I got him to sign a tender somehow. I tracked him down. So it was it was it was it was a process, man, and we weren't the strongest team, and we had to take a lot of kids that maybe weren't the best off the ice um and deal with it. Um we had to take a lot of guys that that weren't wanted in our league, and we had a couple good ones, but a lot of uh trial and tribulations. But what what my ownership group here um allowed me to do was was hire good people, and that's probably the most important thing I can tell anyone. Surround yourself with good people. And I was fortunate enough to to bring in some really good um assistant GMs and scouts. In fact, two of the both the GMs in in Youngstown and the USHL, which we we own part of that team as well, were were my assistant GMs in in Maryland, and they're really good at what they do. And so and coaches as well, like all my assistant coaches, I have one in the in the American, two in the American League now, um, one in Youngstown, and and the other guys who didn't want to move on, um, which is fine. They decided to go a different route with their hockey, but um being able to hire good people, I guess, was the biggest thing. Motivated people, and they're kind of like honestly, I look it back, why do they hire certain people? I look at them, I just thought they were motivated. Um and that was kind of the the the the part that made that transition easy here. So yeah, I was tough first year, uh, but we've climbed every year and we've built our program to a destination spot now. And but honestly, from a billet coordinator to our our staff, I mean, everything, everything we've done is with a purpose. You'd our training staff, our medical trainers, like nobody gets to be with our players until they they they pass the test. And the test to me is personality and uh do you have our players' best interests in mind? And that's what's made it easier is uh the opportunity to hire good people.

Jason: 44:01

That's fantastic. So when when did the you mentioned the first year was tough? I didn't look up to see the record. I do I do see the record right now. I think it's like three regulation losses in 21 games or something. You guys have a wagon this year. Congratulations on that. But was there a point that you saw a tangible shift, like whether it was within the recruiting model or whether it was in uh a a breakaway season? Like what was that moment for Maryland?

Clint: 44:27

Uh just recruiting. We talked about recruiting earlier, like I recruit recruited my ass off when I first started. Um and then in in Maryland, it's recruiting, but it's also it's more related, it's a lot of relationships now with with advisors, uh, with schools um wanting to send you players. So by the time we started to by the time we got maybe year three, I now now it came down to schools going, okay, you guys have an off-ice program with actual professionals that train your athletes. You have um a psych like a um sports psychologist, you have full-time medical trainer, full-time equipment guy, like you got a kind of like a pro program here. So then then we started getting schools like, hey, I got a kid here who needs a spot to go. Would you be interested in taking him? He's gotta work on XYZ, and I know what you guys do. So it's selling our program too, right? Like, what do you have and comparing yourself to other programs? So I had a lot of conversations with USHL teams, um, North American Hockey League teams, guys I knew. I'm like, what do you do for your players? And then I presented to my ownership group and go, this is what I had that conversation too. That's probably when it did shift. I'm like, what do you want to be? Uh if you want to be low budget, uh, which is fine, and just do the the bare minimum, like we can still compete, but we're what do you want? Like, we're where do you want to take this? And they honestly said, Well, we want to win, we want the division one commitments, you want to be a place where kids are proud to to come back to and visit. And I'm like, Well, here's the things we have to do, and here's what here's what other teams do. Some of the things I I told them certain teams do is like, are they nuts? I'm like, Yeah, they are. Like, they they that's what they do spend. Um, so we're not that team that does does all of that, but we're very competitive, and that's allowed us too to kind of take a step. And honestly, going back to what I said before, is is hiring some really good people uh within our scouting staff, where man, I guess some really good players uh presented to me at times and like, holy crap, like I would have died to have this kid or first year and when that's a Notre Dame. So so the the networking part is is huge as well. That's where it was a good ownership group, uh, good people that we we we have we do have philosophy and how we recruit, uh, where we find players and and and the questions we ask players. So there is there is there is kind of a litmus test on on who we're allowed to to talk to or bring in and even skate with us during the season.

unknown: 46:57

Sure.

Clint: 46:57

Um our guys know like what I like and what we like, not just me. I used to be told you this is a player you're gonna love, like why? Well, he's tough. I'm like, okay, but our team isn't 20 guys a tough. Like, we gotta have you know, our skill guys gotta be um, you know, tough as well, hard skill in certain areas, but I don't need them fighting and running around. So so we kind of came to a really good strong agreement with our staff what builds what constitutes a good team, and and compare it to winning teams at all levels and from junior to college to pro, even the minors, ECHO. I I I like to know what do they have on their team and watch them play and go, yeah, they got small ones, big ones, fast ones, tough ones. Like they don't just have one one look. And some teams do that. We're big, okay, but at some point you got to skate. So we that's kind of how we've tried to build our teams, and uh, but have the right personnel that can go out there and find those guys too.

Jason: 47:49

How much do you value the personality or the I don't know what the right way to put it, but you mean the maybe let's say the character. You you mentioned like at the beginning, you sort of had to say yes to whoever was going to come there, and you you may mean you maybe had some of the misfits and some of the guys that needed second and third chances. Um, is that something that that you do value, or is that a a high priority item on your criteria?

Clint: 48:12

Yeah, it's a big one for us. Um it's a long season, you're eight months together on a bus, you know, doing video and practicing. And so it tells some people like winning is really, really, really, really hard. It it sometimes winning sucks. It's lonely at times for coaches, for players, and it's not easy. There's a lot of sacrifice, and you you need guys that that you know, and and women these days, obviously in our game that coach with you and training. Like we want them to all be in in terms of what the process is. So yeah, it it's um character is huge. We're very demanding in terms of how we practice. Some kids that skate with us are blown away by uh how hard we compete. It's not two hours of it, but when we compete, it's it's compete. Um, and then the expectations with leadership. I don't I don't I don't do all the teaching. Uh, get my players a marker and say, go run video uh tomorrow. You're gonna talk about X, Y, Z. I'm not we're not going upstairs as coaches, like you don't need our voice. Um, so we need players that are are willing to take on that task. And that's the hardest thing getting a kid to talk in front of his peers. Um, I've had captains like that before I get in the room, they're on the board with a marker, giving it to guys about hey, our four check is this. Why the hell do we not have F2 in the right spot? Like, it's not that hard. We got to figure it out. By the time I get in there, I'm like, yeah, what he said. Like I don't have to do it, but that's what I want. I want those types of kids where it's not just me. Um it doesn't work when it's just the head coach, and you you've we've all heard it. And being a player, you play at higher levels, you you probably appreciate when it's not just the head coach barking, like it's your cap is a leadership group that take care of or have the answers before a coach walks in where the coach knows I don't have to say much. Um but in the end, it does come down to your your players anyway. So let's the sooner we can get them to grab ownership and take charge, by the time they do, we're just really rolling out line combinations and and telling guys, hey, remember on the face-off, they like this rotation or whatever, and we're not coaching like compete or what our systems are. And that's the fun part is when you you you know you have it like call it the sounds of the game. You know you have it if you close your eyes and listen to the game, you're like, that is how we play. Uh you can tell or how we practice, like the sounds are different, and the same thing with conversations on your bench. If I can get guys to talk hockey on the bench and talk about what we're doing or trying to do, then you got it. Um, when they're on the bench not talking, or they're they're clueless, then we're not we're we aren't doing a good enough job. So that's the type of player I want. And it's freaking hard to find, man. It's it's just it's but they're out there, but you gotta you can find skill. We all know that the hard part is finding that hockey player that's all in and will be an extension of what your thought process or beliefs are as an organization.

Jason: 51:14

Gonna take a short break from the conversation to remind you that Up My Hockey can work directly with your academy or your association or your team. Uh, we are doing that currently with the Thunder Bay Kings up in Ontario. All of their triple A programs are running through the Peak Potential Mindset Project and having coaching calls with me. It's been a fantastic experience so far for the group and for myself, and it really is a competitive advantage uh for the players that get to participate in it. Uh, not only do the individual players learn how to become the best player that they can be to be able to manage their emotions, be able to control their development and their uh and their and their performance on the ice, but the group as a whole now has a whole different level of resiliency, a whole different level of uh language that they can use uh to perform together throughout the year. So if you're looking for team building 101, if you are somebody that believes in building uh the toolkit around the player uh to allow them to be the best hockey player that they can be. Uh and if you aren't doing something when it comes to mental training, mental fitness, uh whatever you may call it, then Up My Hockey may be where you need to look. Uh I do believe that the way that we offer the program, uh the curriculum involved, the way the players take the program, uh it really trumps anything that is out there, to my knowledge. Uh the workshop format is dead, in my opinion. Uh for me to get in front of somebody for an hour, a team, and try to communicate the skills of grit or resilience or of mental agility uh is much too long. And to be able to teach in that environment uh it just isn't absorbed enough, and then things don't get applied. Uh the way that we have done it here at Up My Hockey is short form video approach curriculum that the players consume on their own time. They do the assignments and their and their uh their homework on their own time, and then we come together for a group call where the players engage uh with me and each other about what they're learning, how they're applying it, and what they're using. So there is very little lecturing time involved. This is all about application, it's all about using information and then applying the information and executing the information so they actually become better players. And the results speak for themselves. Uh it it's it's been so fun to help the growth of uh of the individual players and also as the teams. So if you are in a decision-making process and if you want something that's been proven, that is effective, that not only checks the box of yes, we are doing something for these players when it comes to mindset, but it actually makes a difference for the players. That is more than just a checkbox, it is something that builds culture, it builds leadership, it builds community, and it builds performance. Uh then come over this way. Up my hockey will take care of you. Uh, that is the overall business plan, too, of Up My Hockey, just to be frank, is like we need to service teams, uh, we need to service associations so we can grow good human beings within the jurisdictions where they are. So when a player walks into your spot as a U13 or U11 competitive player, they will continue to graduate with Up My Hockey curriculum as long as they stick with the program. Uh it takes a lot off the plate from the coaches, it takes a lot off the plate from the administrators. Uh, you'd be surprised how much fewer problems there are in general when it comes to a team format because players are more easy or more readily available to deal with diversity and look at it as an opportunity uh that some of the uh you know the headaches and things go away as well. So it really does conquer uh solve a lot of a lot of problems, uh provides a lot of solutions. So again, we are open. We'd love to have conversations. If you are curious at all, uh look us up, jason at myhockey.com or send in a contact form on the website. Uh we're already a quarter of the way, halfway through this year. Uh sometimes these decisions get made a year in advance. So if you want to start the conversation now, uh bring it on. We're willing to have it. Now let's get back to the conversation. Yeah, I love you talking about the room. I know Jeremy and I like numerous times this year, you know, certain different things come up. And I mean, we try. I mean, I love giving ownership of the room to the players, you know, and and and the things that are going on. And I was like, if you guys want to be champions, like this is where it has to start. Like it can't be me and it can't be Jeremy that's holding you guys accountable to every detail that it requires to win. You know, it's like it has to be something in here that you guys understand what those details are and you hold yourself accountable to them. And I'm like, and when you get that right, that's when we'll be really successful, you know, if if this is the aspirations you want. Um, and it's tough as coaches sometimes, right? To let that's a little bit of letting go, right? A little bit of letting go to to allow them to find their place and their voice and and their you know and their growth as uh as young men. But I really do think like that you nailed it on the head there. Like that's that's where it has to happen and that's where it has to come from. And uh, and when it does, that's when they're gonna have a season that they're gonna freaking remember too, because it's gonna be different for them.

Clint: 56:28

And it's fun for them too to be in charge and have that ownership and and um yeah, I've I start of every year, I'll bring the returning players upstairs in our video room and and I'll give them a quiz about our systems. And you know, we change some things obviously here and there, but our core things and values, I'll give them a piece of paper and go, you got five minutes and let's see what you got. And then I'll go through them, and then if they're good, I'm like, okay, now remember you got to help help us with the rest of the room. So we're in practice, you're directing traffic, and it's not me. Like, I don't use a whistle whistle much during practice at all. Maybe to end a drill, but that's it. I don't like whistles. And someone said a long time ago, whistles are like a negative thing in hockey, it's a penalty, it's offside, um, or whatever. So we don't do a lot of whistles, so not a lot of board time. So before they come to the rink, they've already got the practice plan in their phones. So how do we get through a practice? I I'll look at my my assistant coaches sometimes and go, why aren't the D doing what they're supposed to do? I don't talk to the D at that point. Um, and then at some point I will talk to her, like her older players, go, why aren't you guys doing what you're supposed to do? Or why aren't we talking on the ice? But I'll talk to her captains. I don't blow the whistle and stop. I go, Do you like this practice? Do you like her intensity? No, we'll go then how do you how are you going to fix it? I can't be the one fixing it. They expect me to to bark at them, but I need you to do it. So there's a lot of that going on, like teaching them how to be leader and take charge. And I think our last game, we had a little stretch where we weren't doing great. And the the I said the first three guys that walked by the office on uh before Saturday's game, bring them in here. I didn't care if they were captains, or three of the guys that walked in. I gave them the marker and said, here are three things I want you to focus on um and talk about it. But we're not going upstairs, we're not doing video, we're not doing any chalk talk or at the board. Here's what you're gonna talk about. And there's nothing I can tell you that you haven't heard. So so go upstairs, have your little chat, and then do the things that we need to do to win and what make us successful. I just gave them three things that make us successful that I think we have to do every night, non-negotiables. And we won four or nothing, and yeah, it's 16 shots on that. And that's kind of like you know, the account, and it's good for the players to know like it's not just the coaches, it gives them a little confidence too, right? Like we they'll need you at some point, but they don't they don't need us every second of the game on the bench to tell them what to do. Um, so I think the sooner they can learn how to be responsible and and take charge and be a leader, the the the sooner you can do. I always say I want to get to phase two of what we're doing here. I don't want to be stuck in phase one. We only get to phase two if you guys can do this on your own. When when I realize and we think you can, then we're gonna have more fun to to what our systems are, our structure, or whatever we do as a team. Like we're and this year, like you're not wouldn't be surprised that we're way ahead of where we were last year at this time. And that's what makes it fun is the guys you have that that are drivers and and and guys that are you need drivers on your lines, on your bench, but you got to have a bunch of drivers, and and mentally too, you gotta have guys that that want that responsibility, and and um we feel like we've got a bunch of those this year.

Jason: 59:42

That's awesome. What are your uh non negotiables? I mean, maybe not the three things that you gave those players, but is there things that just the as far as a head coach and your philosophy and your culture go, that these are these are high priority items?

Clint: 59:54

Yeah, I was so I mean there's a bunch, but being relentless. I'm like, if you got five feet to go, get there in a hurry. If you got 20 feet to go, like get there in a hurry. Get to where you need to be to give yourself time to assess the situation before a puck comes to you. Um, so being relentless is another one. Like, be relentless. If you're F1, be relentless. Don't get on your inside edges and and do the old shoulder shaming where you're trying to figure out how to get a puck. Like be straight line, stick on puck details, um, and and get there now. Like make it easy for F2 and F3 and our D strongest I D to make a read. Uh so those are those are ones uh for sure. Then the one thing I like saying is when you can show me a clip of your back check legs exceeding your fore check legs or offensive legs, then we got something here. So I always I do it all the time. Bring me a video, show me when you're a good F1. Show me where you're in front getting pounded, trying to poke in a puck. Um you know, show me a clip of you back checking where you're blown by guys and and not getting behind them, reaching, you're like getting position. So so those are things where where those are definitely your back check legs gotta be good, man. And it it's it's it's really important to us as a program that we can show that on video, like we're where we do that. And um, but being relentless, um, the other one too is being a to me, being a good teammate. Um negative benches are are not not wanted or needed. So I always like, hey, you got nothing to say good, you can't talk. Like, gotta be positive. Coaches are hyper-critical at times, so we I gotta check myself and tell my assistants like, tell me, like, give me an elbow or give me a look or say something between periods. But I'm hyper competitive and I want our players to be super competitive. So so practices are really, really competitive. Um I want games to be fun and easy based on our practices, why they're so so hard and competitive. Um, but I don't know, being relentless to me is really important. Um, being a good teammate uh at all times, not just when I'm in the room. I always tell them I hear everything, and I at some point I it comes back to me, so you can't get away with it. We've had a few of those discussions this year. Um be a good teammate. Um, you know, it's not like the old days where you rookie this, rookie that is totally changed, and I want guys to be comfortable where they're at. And I think everyone's got a responsibility. So I'll I guess the other one too is room, boss, hotel, locker room on the road, like spotless. Uh, we get off a bus, nothing's left. We I leave a room, a locker room on the road, nothing's on the ground. Uh hotel, same thing. And you'd be amazed how many people appreciate our program uh when we go on the road, and from hotel staff to rank staff. Um I've had coaches go, you make your veterans carry shit off the bus? I'm like, I don't make them, like they just do, like they they've learned. Like we all I unload the bus. Um, they do it. I just think I think there is a hierarchy a little bit, but I think it's not like the way it used to be, which is good. I want kids to leave home and come here at 17 and be comfortable in the locker room, not dread walking into a locker room going, God, I hope he's not here today. You know, I don't think that happens much anymore, but I want them to be be comfortable. So yeah, being a good teammate is is a big one. Uh it doesn't mean you're soft teammate. I mean, I want you to go on the ice and compete against your best friend and give it to him just as hard as you would your opponent. Um, but after practice is done, like we're we're good teammates.

Jason: 1:03:27

Yeah. Yeah, I think there's a fine line there that that kids uh well kids, whatever age you want to put on that, have a hard time navigating about, you know, what positivity is something that I'm that I'm strong about. But it's like there is a time that you're able to talk to a line mate about, you know, whatever, not working, not competing, maybe not seeing you for a play, right? It's way different than pointing fingers and yelling and doing something. So I just find like, you know, that ability to be a good teammate, you know, I mean, definitely give a guy a pat when he's down or maybe need some encouragement, but also be able to hold each other accountable is also being a good teammate, right? But it's like it's figuring out how to do that. Um, uh, which is part of growing up and which is part of finding your voice and part of leadership and everything else. But I do think like it it's interesting watching some players try and try and navigate those waters with what that actually means, you know, being a good teammate and what they think it means.

Clint: 1:04:19

Well, we see players on the bench and they complain I was open. He didn't pass me. I'm like, who? So-and-so. I'm like, he's right there. Go talk to him. What did you want there? Well, I want him to throw the puck behind the net. I go, Well, did you call for it? He's like, Yeah, I go, well, then tell him why didn't you pass it to me or whatever. Then the email go, I didn't hear you. Sorry. You know what I mean? Like, they they gotta they gotta talk their way through it all the time. The best players I've had, they they're constantly talking in practice, two-on-one drill. They're talking, hey, switch here, first pass, do this, or whatever. So on the bench in a game, isn't that the same thing? So, so when players are upset about not something not happening, I'm like, Well, what happened? I didn't catch it, I can't catch everything. Well, this happened. I go, Well, who was involved? Well, him or whatever the player may be, a line mate or defenseman, well, he's right there. Wouldn't that be the best way to talk to him? Like the best way to talk, and sometimes I'll find it's like not a big deal. And the D man, like, okay, sorry about that, and next time, and then but work your way through it. Like, power play the same thing. What do you want? So when we work on power play and they go back to the the bench and the other power play ends up and they sit there and they're quiet. I'm like, conversation, I'm not in it. I can't help you. You need to learn to tell them what you want, and that happened even last week. You know, what do you want me to do here? And he's you know, kid was frustrated. I go, talk to the guys on the power play. Said, I can't help you because the games going on is chaos, it's organized chaos. The best way to navigate what you want to do is by talking to the guys you're doing it with at that particular point in time. So learning how to talk your way through it and and and get through that is huge. And it's not easy for some of them, man. They they've never they've been used to like coaching us, do this, do that. I got I don't want robots, I want guys that flow uh together and and know their tendencies. And when I when I climb uphill, it's coming back down, they'll be ready, or whatever it may be. We give them some structure, but they got to work within it. So I think those conversations are are hugely important. And you you want a good power play, get a bunch of guys that communicate. Um, your best games that I've ever coached were the whole game guys were talking. And I wish I could bottle it up and and and get guys to do it every game, but I'm like, why were we so good tonight? And they'll give you a reason. One kid will finally pipe up, go, we were talking. I'm like, yeah, you can do every system wrong and do your fork check wrong, but if you talk your way through it, you're gonna have more success. And if you do your system to a T and don't talk. And and it's it's um it's a constant battle. I talk to college coaches and pro guys, they're like, Clint, your conversations are not different than mine. From NHL coaches to college to you know, guys at high levels are like we have we have the same things we go through. Um but uh yeah, that's that's pretty important to learn how to talk and navigate and have yeah, have a tough conversation. Like guys come, I hear him on the bench all the time. Why isn't so-and-so doing this as F1? They go, Why don't you talk to so and so when he comes back to the bench? And then you see him kind of hesitate and like, dude, you gotta talk. I'm done talking to this player. So you have the conversation, and the guy'll come back, and then sure enough, they'll pipe up and say something, and and they realize it doesn't hurt, and the guy's not taking offense to it. Uh, sometimes they don't understand, maybe, and like that's where video comes in. So, so if we have video on the bench sometimes, which we do, like this is what he means. Uh, or between periods, I'll bring them both in and go, this is what he's alluding to. Do you understand? And he's like, Oh man, yeah, I get it. So, so that's what I mean, but it's a lot of work, but we want them to be comfortable in those situations to talk and get through and not take it personal. Like, I'll listen, man. You got something for me. I don't take it personal. Like, I have players telling me, hey, they're rotating this guy off the face off. I'm like, okay, I missed that. Like, they switch it up on us. So I want guys who come to the bench with with with conversation pieces.

Jason: 1:08:17

I say that all the time. Like, a quiet, a quiet ice is an unconfident ice sheet, right? Uh is the way I put it, because you're you don't either know what's going on or you're scared to have direction and like to tell somebody what's going on to call a switch, right? To call a position. And like that's how you're gonna learn. And even I said, even if you call the wrong thing, right? Like at least somebody knows where you're going, uh, to your point, right? Like you might not get the right fork check, but at least if you go somewhere, someone else can read off you. And so um, I find that really wild because like even sometimes, even like the the verbose kids, right? The kids in the locker room that are talking all the time, you get them all on the ice, and all of a sudden everyone's just quiet. And it's like one of the biggest things when you get a new group together. I'm like, guys, we got to be loud out here. Like, this should be a chitter chatter. I shouldn't be able to be able to be able to talk over you guys. Um, and it's funny, right? It's like boom, the game comes and it quietens up. But I mean, to your point, like, I mean, any NH, any professional team that played on that was that was good was always loud and was always talkative and was always communicating. And you're on the ice, you're talking the whole time. The whole time.

Clint: 1:09:19

Every sport, they they'll tell you the same thing. Like the the championship team teams in hockey have a bunch of communicators, uh, a bunch of guys that hold each other accountable, and and they're all a microcosm of your your thought process as a program on and off the ice or on and off the court, and they steer it. Like they're they're in charge of it and they cherish it, and they they live it, they believe it. Um, and once again, like at the point where you're just saying, hey, you're up, your line's up, or you're talking about the other team now, not us, saying, Hey, watch out for they like stretching this out or on controls, remember, like play inside the dog, whatever. We're doing that instead of coaching our stuff. That's what makes it fun when you're not coaching us. Our systems, we're coaching like what what they're facing now. So now they're they're past the the structural stuff. Um, they're they're they're they're I guess playing hockey now at a high level, right?

Speaker 1: 1:10:11

Yeah, exactly.

Clint: 1:10:12

Communicating their way through it, and um, yeah, it's funny. I'm like, you talk all day in the room, I walk to the room, you don't shut up, and then you get on the ice and you shut up, like it's a wrong time. Like we got to fix that up a little bit. But that's that's that's confidence too. And and leadership is not taught a whole lot. Guys get C's and A's at young levels, and they don't they don't really teach them why they have it or or do leadership stuff, whether it's books or meetings with their captains. Um I love doing that with our captains, like, hey, like what's going on with this kid? Like, he looks like he's been down the dumps a little bit, or or he's not very talkative. Like, what's he like? Um, maybe pull him aside and they or I'll ask him, hey, do you when you go on lunches, do you make sure like you sit beside a different player, new player, every time you guys do a team lunch? They do they too do team lunches all the time after our workout, especially on Thursday. They like doing a little sushi lunch, uh dinner together lunch uh before a Friday game. Um I was questioning them, like, who'd you sit beside? Which player, which new player did you get to today? And and our captain is um Owen Drury, is his dad's Ted Drury that played in the NHL, and his uncle is obviously the Chris Drury and the Rangers. And that's something I think he does really well. He works the room um in a root in a way where guys are comfortable with him, and and he's really good at at you know everyone's important, not just um the top guys. So that's what I think is really important with with your leadership group is is finding kids like that. There's not a lot of them um that want to do all that. Like that's the hardest part, man, is we can all do X's and O's, but that's like almost the least important thing when you build a team. That's just like one part of it. Uh the most important part is your room and your leaders. And I'm blessed to have over the last few years some really good captains.

Jason: 1:12:00

That's awesome. Uh I want to talk a little bit about you kind of extracting potential out of players, and then also like how do we flip that? And what what where do you find like what players have the most success in in getting to where they want to go? You know, I know people come to your program, I'm sure the vast majority there are dying to get a you know a D1 scholarship. Uh I would assume is the overall goal there, and and maybe to eventually play pro. Uh who who does reach those things? Who does move on? Who develops the fastest? What are the things that you see in players that that uh that usually drive success? You have a motor.

Clint: 1:12:37

Every practice, they're shot out of a cannon, every drill, they're shot out of a cannon. Um, every shift, like they're you don't have to, you never have to say once, like, hey, where's your pace today? Hey, you're not you're not working harder or your question, is he is he motivated today, or what's the wrong with like this guys that are low maintenance, um, you don't have to push buttons, they just go. You're more directional. It's like the kid, the parents who ask all the questions, like, well, have your son ask me. Like, it sounds like you want it more than him. Like, why isn't he asking me that this is in youth hockey? And then I think the same thing in in junior. I relay all the messages to them, like, who makes it? We we do drills where you go over your your top top scores over the years that we've had in Maryland, and and and we talk about who do you think's playing college or D1? And they all go the top score every time. I'm like, nope. I was like, this guy's playing every game every night because every shift the coach A knows what he's getting, he's smart. But the best players that played in Maryland have a motor. I don't have to tell them to work out. They'll they would call me on days off and go, hey, can I get in the weight room? Is it open on Sunday? Even after a long trip, like they want to be in the weight room on their own. Um, you know, they don't need a coach to push, they just they need direction, that's it. They they need a map to, you know, or or direction in terms of here's some things you can do. And I that comes down to like who can I get um in front of them, whether it's trainers or professionals that that can help them on their journey to make them better and enhance what they are. Uh but the motor is the big one. Uh I've I've I've had a member of school call me once about another player, like, what else are you looking for? Like, oh man, we need a a guy that just wants to be F1. I'm like, I got a perfect one. This guy is our best four checker. And if you if you watch him, he's our best back checker. He's always getting up and down the ice, he can petes his ass off. And so I just sent him clips of four checks of back checks. I sent him clips of being F1 on the four check, and then blown by guys on the back check when the puck got out of the zone, they're like, that's what we need. There's not enough of that. And ended up playing Division I hockey. So having a good motor, if you got a good skill set, that's great. But if you can't get pucks, what does it matter that you have a good skill set? If you can't win a battle uh or compete hard enough, that's another one. Compete. Um, what good is it? Your skill matters not. Um, every school has access to elite prospects and hockey DB, and they know they know your your stats. They don't talk to me about your numbers. They never ask me about stats. Hey, is he skilled or does he have points? They don't care, they see that. So, what do they want to know? Schools want to know is he coachable? Is does he have a good hockey IQ? Um is he um does he get it? Does he know how to play away from the puck? That's another one. Uh, youth hockey, the biggest struggles they have is they don't shoot hard enough, quickly enough. Um, they're not strong enough to win battles, and they're not good on the walls. Um, you know why they're not good on the walls? They don't need to be. And youth hockey, I watch youth hockey, I'm like, well, okay, why are why are they struggle so much at our level? What is it? Watch youth hockey, 18, 16s, like they don't have to be good. They get a puck and they skate away from a guy. It's just easier.

Speaker 1: 1:15:53

Yeah.

Clint: 1:15:54

Our level, like, you got a six foot two, 215-pound 20-year-old with a mustache, you know, bearing down on you, and they're heavy. Um, collar, same thing. So, so wall play separates, hockey IQ, obviously, there's a lot of skill. We can find skill. That's that's at least of my concerns. Um, my concerns is is he tough mentally? Is he coachable? Um, can I push him without palms up? Um is he motivated on his own to be the best? Um meaning, I guess, is he does he walk in on? I've seen we got some players this year where they're in early all the time before a workout, they're doing stuff. Um, I see him not that I'm in the gym all the time on the row, but we get off a long road trip. I'll go in the the gym and I'll I'll get on the treadmill for a bit or just you know exercise and do something. Um there's a there's guys that are in there all the time, like working out, getting a workout in um and working their ass off. I'm in there laughing, oh man, I wish I had that when I was their age. And and it's like it's impressive when you got those types of kids. And you wonder why you know we're we're having success. It's it's a lot of guys like that. So but so I guess the kids I don't have to to motivate is a big one. Um self-motivation is big, but I get also just having that motor, man. Every practice, you don't have to tell a kid to work, like they just do. I think there's a lot of kids that do actually these days. I feel like there is that. So um, but there's some kids where they they want to get their skill sets, but they don't ask you a question. And I love telling kids like you never ask me questions. I've had division one, um, division one kids in the past. I'm like, you know, you never ask me a question and it's December. So I talk to you or bring you in, but you've you wouldn't ask me a hockey question. Why not? And they're like, Well, you'd I'd figure things are good if I you don't ask me anything or tell me, I'm like, how do you think that? I'm like, you're gonna go to college and and I'm telling you, you're in trouble. And they don't believe me. I'm like, you have to have an interest in the game of hockey. You're you're you're telling me you want to play pro, but if your dad's at work in the stock market and that's the job he's uh in fine in finance, do you think he just waits for his his boss to tell him what to do? Like, you guys are living in a nice home if he's that's the way it is. So you want to be a hockey player, you gotta be a win, you gotta ask questions, and you're not doing it. And if that's your attitude, you're gonna struggle in college. You won't play. And they don't believe me until they get there, and then within a year, they're they play three games or whatever it may be. So that's another one, too. I like kids that are conversational, and this it's not just asking questions, it's like showing an interest in the sport of hockey.

Jason: 1:18:28

Yeah, it's like authentically curious about the game, right? Like you you need you need to be vested in it, there needs to be an engagement with it. Uh, I think players that really do take control of their development is one thing that I encourage them to do is like, you know, you're you have a practice, you have a team workout, we have a team practice, we have a team workout. Like, what are you getting from that workout and from that practice that's self-driven for you? You know, and what are you doing afterwards?

Clint: 1:18:52

Passion for all of all of well, you know, you had kids in the summer. I'm like, who do you work out with? And they're telling me, okay, I work out this guy's in the USHL, this guy's in the CHL, this guy's playing ACAA hockey. And I'm like, How old are they? Well, they're the same age as me, they're all sixes. I'm like, so so you do everything they do, right? He's like, Yep. I go, so let's do the quick math here. You're an old six, they're all sixes. They're all playing higher levels. And you do the same thing they do, right? Yep. I go, Well, how do you surpass them? Well, what do you mean? Well, if you do the same things, but you're at this level, how do you catch up? And they start thinking about it. I go, what do you think I mean by that? And they finally the light bulbs go go off, like meaning I should probably do more. I'm like, Yep. Means you might have to do more on your own and not just show up because the schedule says work out this time video. Like, maybe you got to come in and do 20 minutes of your own. And what you will find is some point you're gonna build confidence by enhancing your knowledge, um, getting physically stronger, which usually develops your mind to be mentally tougher. Um, you gotta do more, and it's not easy. That's why winning winning, I say winning can suck, uh, getting ahead in life can suck, and it can be lonely because you're doing a lot of these things uh without your friends, and but that's what it takes to play at the highest levels. You can't just be talented.

Jason: 1:20:14

Yeah, yeah, that's good. How often does player identity or players not maybe understanding details of the game, elements of the game that that are required, or maybe, or maybe not being, let's say, content or willing to grow where they're planted. How much does that come into uh your coaching style and the players that come through your door?

Clint: 1:20:36

Yeah, it's huge. I mean, there's I have a lot of conversations like either you don't get it or you don't want to. And those are two really bad alternatives. So, what is it? And that's when you kind of catch them. Like, what do you mean by that? You go, well, we've had this conversation about whatever it may be. Um, it could be even like being on time, uh, off the ice, whatever it may be, turning your phones in. We have that that process. So it's getting to know a kid and and what motivates them, but also making them talk. Explain to me what you think. What do I mean by this? I I have to I have to hear it from you. I it can't be me telling you do this, and then you leave the because a lot of kids don't want to talk, man. They want to listen to you and leave the office. I'm the opposite. When I do video with a kid, I'm I'm like, I'll pause it, go, what what do you see here? Talk. Or I'll let them have the laptop and I'll like run it and you tell me what what you see. And you know, for me, I can take a 30-second clip and I can make it 20 minutes. It ain't that hard. Um, but for them, I want them to explain to me. I gotta know how they think. So then then it comes down to you know, do you understand what I mean and why I want this? And explain to me what what I'm saying here. And then when they can do that, at the end of it all, you want them to be at the point where so now we're having understanding of what we're trying to do, yes. And I then I feel confident that the kid really does get it. And then next time we do a video, we can come to an agreement of you know, why'd you sit me the last 10 minutes? Well, why do you think I sat you? Was it that the one shift? Like, it was never one shift, it's a pattern. Like there's patterns of the game, there's patterns to your game, there's patterns to to a lot of things. So are you are you enhancing your strong patterns of the game or enhancing the the patterns we're trying to kill? Like there's certain patterns we we got to get rid of, but they're still there. So either we're not wanting to fix it or we don't know how to fix it. If you don't know how, ask me how, and then we can work at it. So that's where passion comes in, too, and like really wanting to understand it. And some kids are man, they're on a fast track to the NHL in their mind or or college, and we got to teach them where the brakes are sometimes. And I'm like, I want you to go to college, I but I don't want you to be a committed player, I want you to be a player that actually goes and plays, and here are things uh you need to do. I've had talks to kids all the time. I'm like, I pull up a schedule from the kid the other day, and I showed him, like, okay, this team plays BU. Um, they play this team, this team, like some pretty good teams. Oh, yeah, that's a really good schedule. I'm like, so when they were asking me questions about you, what do you think they're doing? And I'm like, they're foreshadowing. They want to know that if you're here and it's 2-1 against BU and they're winning, you're not gonna, you know, hit the blue line and toe drag a guy and lose it. Like they want to know like what you are, and I'm trying to teach you how to how you're gonna play at the next level. I said it's some is boring and it's not great because it's they're killing your artistic integrity as an artist, but sometimes you gotta paint a wall. Is that okay? Well, and then he said, Do you want to play Division I and then pro, yes? Well, I'm telling you how you're you're probably gonna get there because if you really map out where you are at this point and your age and who's playing college already, like draft picks, CHL players, and returning players all get first dips. So, what does that leave you? Scraps, fourth line, left wing, bottom of center. Yeah, you're a left winger or a right winger. Like, can you do it? So I'm trying to teach you how to get in the lineup, but then then you can have some of that art artistry on the ice that you so much want to show every day, but you got to be a painter sometimes that paints walls, and that's fine. So those conversations are had all the time with with these guys. I'm trying to teach you how to make it. Um, you tell them you want to play Division I and Pro, this is how you're gonna do it. Um, and you can you can, and I always tell them, I'll never tell you you can't do it in terms of being a top six or a top line. So I'll never tell you you can't get there, but I'm telling you how to how to at least get your foot in the door where they can then they can decide, you know what, he's got more skill than we thought, and he's doing everything right, so let's throw him a bone here and put him on the power play. Then you score a goal. Now you're you know you're off and running. Now they're starting to really see that side of you that you want them to see every night they don't need to. So that that's kind of like once again, it's the the conversation pieces and and trying to teach them like what are I guess what do they want from me and and how do I get my commitment? Because that comes up a lot. Like, why aren't they committing to me? I just told you. And then you watch video, are you doing what we're asking? Well, kind of well, you are you really the heart of hearts, you're really doing what probably not. Yeah, because you're not committed. So do XYZ and watch watch the offers roll, and that's happened too, where kids, the light bulbs go off, they just do it, and all of a sudden they get a commitment, and then then you got them, right? So so it's also like proof at the end, you got to show them like there's there's a reward at the end of all this, and that's that's not always easy for a teenager.

Jason: 1:25:43

Do you uh do you feel that winning at your level it also leads to individual success for the players within it?

Clint: 1:25:52

Always. You schools come watch us play because we're known as a team that does things the right way, and and we have guys playing college hockey and now signing NHL contracts that that they see the proof and in how we've done things. So we try and teach that like you're we win, you win. I mean, that's the bottom line. At this level in junior A, like, the longer we play, like we've had kids who played all year, and I told them be patient, like if we win, you'll get something. Like, just stick with it. That there's a lot of guys out there, and they'll get to you at some point. They got to see you at the right time. Um, and they they somewhat believe it, but I got stories, man, of guys, you know, we go to the Robertson Cup and we're playing in front of every single school, and they're like, Wow, he's actually pretty good. I've been been selling them that he's good, but they didn't realize how good, but they get to see him like three games in a row. We're like, Yeah, that guy's legit, and then they they get something. So, so having a good team definitely helps. Um points, you gotta produce, that's part of it, but like your points don't get you in the door, I don't think. Um, I think you see guys your level and in in the quarter lane, I watch some kids that I think they think they're goal scorers, and I'm I'm foreshadowing going he ain't gonna be a goal scorer at the next level, whether it's Western League or Junior A, but he's gonna be a really he can make make a living being a good third-line guy, or you know, if he does everything right, then he then will get his chance to score. But I think points are too much brought up by families and even advisors too. They'll bring up, oh, we got to put up points. I'm like, Yeah, he's got to produce, but if he produces enough, but he's a everyday player, that's important too. But um, getting back to your original question, yeah, I think we win, you win when it comes to individual stuff.

Jason: 1:27:40

Yeah, yeah, and programs want that. I mean, and it's you know, uh you know, I think the players that haven't won anything don't know, and the younger players don't really get it either, like how freaking hard it is to win. And so once you appreciate how hard it is to win, and you know that that group of athletes was able to get to the cup or the fourth round or whatever the case may be, win a championship, it's like, well, this guy now gets it, and and that's the type of person that I want to have in my dressing room, in my, you know, in my in my on my bus, right? Like, so that's the part the guys discount, and then when they they'll also maybe discount the role in that winning scenario. And and and we all know how you know you mentioned a third line guy. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a third line guy anywhere, let alone on a winning team. You know, guys, guys need that. Um question is whether you want to do it. Um, but again, if you are willing to do it, uh, and then you do win, now that's the proof also that well, this guy is prepared to play any role to do what he wants. Maybe he can be a higher role in our organization, but we know that he's willing to be a piece of a puzzle and and values winning. So it's like, yeah, like winning, uh, I like that too, because I mean, as you said, winning sucks, winning's hard. Um, it's tough to do. That's why not everybody does it. And uh, and when you have when you're able to teach that that to the to the players, like, boy, that that follows them. You know, winning follows you.

Clint: 1:28:55

Yeah, I've had the we have the talk all the time with guys, but even power play stuff. I like being the left flank downhill shooter. I'm like, yeah, but our our one of our top players is there. It's like, you don't like tapp-ins from back post? Like, what's wrong with that position? I'm like, I can put you on that in that role, but it'll be on the other unit that gets 20 seconds of mop-up duty. But you can have it, but or you can be where we think we'll have the most success. I I think you would enjoy scoring, wouldn't you? So, I mean, there's a bit of that too, yeah. Um, all year, when especially when you like have having a good team that has had early success is balancing, like to get everyone involved and and opportunities and where they want to be. And but like that's that's the part of winning. Do you want to win or do you want to be to get what you want? So that is part of it for sure. And it it's it's tough for it's like it's like that at all levels, especially some guys love being a 35 goal score in a bad team. I'm like, I gotta be you gotta be aware of who you trade with, too. Like that's what comes into it. Like, I I want winners, and you can feel on the bench when times are tough, or it's like that the time of the game where you gotta really get get mentally tough and and compete guys that won like from the goalie on out you can feel it and see it in their actions they're like this it's a different it's a different gear they just everyone's at this level all of a sudden there's times are tough boom they just all of a sudden it's like totally different and it's like you look at the guys on the ice like yeah they've all won they've all been into something whether it's an in 18 you come in here you can tell like they're they're different they're just a different breed and that's what you're always trying to find and and you build your programs with and um that's why this you try and find a lot of captains from good programs to put them in your program um because they know how to win.

Jason: 1:30:40

That's awesome. Maybe we'll just finish uh thanks so much for your time you've been super gracious with it but I I I we haven't even we we we we we've talked about players and I love the conversation but I I do want to talk just a touch about the the NAHL like who who does it attract is it you mentioned tier two so like I I understand NAHL to be the second best junior league in in the United States uh next to the USHL would that be would that be an accurate place to start?

Clint: 1:31:06

Yeah they're tier one we're tier two so uh that being said I mean we it's funny we've had teams in the out in the preseason play ushl teams and win so I think I think the difference being though they're they're younger so the CHL has like a an age requirement you can't have 20 year olds were league you can have um 20 20 year olds so at times it's a bit heavy older um we're kind of a hybrid we have a good mix of younger older um but there's there's no requirement on on on how many 16 17 or 18 year olds you have so it's a and you know it's it's scholarship wise commitment wise ush l you're going usually you're going there with a commitment already a lot of committed players are drafted to those teams and and hey we need a guy you need him to play one year before he comes to our school and where we don't have that as much but we a lot of commitments um every year is a great place to develop um there's 30 plus teams in our league now and and they're everywhere so the hockey's really good like when I first started our first open camp I was like holy crap there's kids I'm not even gonna invite to our camp I would have loved to have a Notre Dame like there there is a difference. I feel like in the US um the skill sets are different everyone can skate handle the puck it's a different different it is different hockey than Canada um totally different um Canada's still got that that feel of of toughness and and grit where the US has is getting that and I think if their national program is really blown the game up where you see kids the skill is ridiculous. Like it's ridiculous everywhere but the US is getting more popular and and the NAHL is is um benefiting from that that growth and of hockey and the national team that they they've had for the last few years and based out of Michigan I think has really enhanced their their product down here and so many good players man it's it's crazy.

Jason: 1:33:11

Yeah so when you're saying so so you guys have no 20 year old cap uh whereas the USHL does have a 20 year old cap just like the Canadian hockey league? Yes. Gotcha so you'll have so then you'll have you then there would be players in the NAHL that have played the USHL that may maybe have aged out there they can't make the team and now they have another year of eligibility they haven't been committed so now these guys are coming to the to your to your program or to somebody's program there.

Clint: 1:33:34

Correct happens every year where where sometimes we have young kids that are really good and uh you'll see during the season some are traded to the USHL um or you know we'll get guys that are aged out or or like they they got six twenties at camp and they're like we can only keep four so you know two are available and that's why you when you draft sometimes you draft you kind of take a flyer on some 20 year olds that are really good that you think will help what your needs are and you take a flyer on them thinking okay if they don't make it we want to give them a play a good landing spot and that's why we think we are a good landing spot um for these guys where if they don't stay in the OSHO they can come play for us to still get what they want or schools will still be happy like hey they're going to Maryland they're in a they're in good hands.

Jason: 1:34:16

Yeah awesome so is is there a percentage kind of either from your league or from your team that like usually moves on can you can you put a can you put a number on that I can't it changed it fluctuates but I know we we have a lot of first round picks every year in the USHL there's a lot of movement.

Clint: 1:34:33

I mean it's it's huge. It's it's a piece of a contention with I think some owners where they're not happy losing players every year but we know we're gonna lose players to the USHL I mean we have six a year where they're drafted or or free agents that go somewhere and make it so uh it's a constant juggling act you got to be prepared that's why I think we do work so hard in the offseason with our relationships to make sure like we might lose I always forecast I think we're gonna lose six guys you think so I'm like I know so so if we get two of those back we're in good hands. So it's a constant juggling percentage wise I don't have a percentage like it just fluctuates but it's a lot more than any league probably the the the North American hockey league lose a ton of players uh to the USHL and a lot of USHL coaches and GMs come from our league so they know our league very well so they know what they're getting and they know the coaches and the GMs so there's a lot of synergy in that area as well.

Jason: 1:35:27

That's wild I didn't uh I wouldn't have guessed that aspect that's cool. So like if somebody's doing well in your league like it's being scouted by the USHL and hey like we he's gonna be a contributor here um we'll take him well we've we've sent guys to the USHL during the season like during the World Junior eight challenge I won't hold you know I try and tell them like listen if you're gonna use them and play them you can have them for three games.

Clint: 1:35:48

I think it's important for a kid to get a chance and the kids appreciate it. The USHL teams obviously it's good for them to get a a good player in to help out. So last year we had three guys uh we lost the USHL for two weeks during the World Junior A challenge and we had three guys out already with with illness and so we were missing six guys at that time but I think it also gives you a chance to see what you got as a program. I think we went four one and one during that stretch so I don't mind doing it.

Jason: 1:36:15

I think it's important that kids get those opportunities and yeah within reason like I don't want guys going oh you have a good team we'll take we're taking five year guys I don't think that's fair and we have a run too but there is synergy there is movement and there is promotion yeah that's awesome that's great man well I really appreciate the chat uh I I'll let you go I know I know could I Clint uh Clint took the time to sit in his car with us here today guys because he was uh halfway between locations so I really appreciate you doing that hopefully have a comfy seat there looks like you're this comfy car man like it's all good I appreciate your time Jason it's great talking to you you like I said I like watching your podcast with a lot of good insight and and um best of luck moving forward with this and also and in court lane yeah we're having a blast we're uh things are starting to come together yeah it's been good so it's been fun hanging out with Jeremy and we love the area so it's been a great move and um yeah hopefully hopefully more good things to come so same to you same but best of luck to your guys like I said you guys are off on a heater looks like you got a great great team there this year so go chase those championship dreams and uh we'll be keeping track of you all right thanks so thank you so much thanks Clint thank you for being here for episode 166 of the Up My Hockey podcast with Clint Milmock I really enjoyed that conversation you know and Clint obviously knows what it takes to develop young men into good humans and winning successful athletes not only by his approach to you know getting to know the players getting to teach them train them talk with them as humans to get the most out of them as as athletes and also the way he handles his locker room there's a lot of leadership building that is going on there's a lot of confidence building that is going on there and uh and I love to hear the success and see the success that his team is having to walk into an expansion team as he did uh start from the ground up having to do way probably too many jobs uh at the time uh allowed him to you know really learn understand what he wanted to create there and he uh sounds like he has an amazing ownership group that is very supportive of of what the athletes need and what the staff needs to uh to create a winning environment and and they are doing uh the tough things right it it's hard as a coach to take the time to have the conversations to take the time to go over individual video to take the time to uh to invest uh what is you know kind of required to get the most out of athletes there is a lot on a coach's plate and when you're dealing with 20 athletes and you're thinking about each athlete's uh vision you know and what they want to become and what they what they think they can become and you are invested in that player it it is it is hard to do everything the right way and the consistency when it comes to coaching is uh is a challenge when it comes to that and that's why you know not all coaches are created equal uh there might be the good intentions there might be play uh coaches that have the lip service required about what it they think they're supposed to do but uh you don't know until you get involved and and I think uh one of the reasons why Maryland is so successful uh is because of Clint and the way that he handles things there. You know when you build your reputation as a coach as uh as a mentor and somebody who invests time and you do it consistently and you do it with authenticity it is much easier for advisors, parents and players to say hey I want to go here. I know that I'm going to be somebody that is going to be invested in and I'm willing to invest back. And so congratulations on Jeremy for kind of I think shining a light on what hockey can be and should be a place to develop people a place to to teach to teach uh these young men and women uh of the game you know how to be better people how to be great hockey players what it takes to be a great teammate and uh and and yeah what what what a better what a better vehicle to to uh to build those skills and athletes if you're listening out there my goodness how many things was he talking about from winning to development to uh to being the best player you can be and being a great teammate like how how how many things were about the skill of a hockey player or how many times did he mention going to end to end uh when advancing like how many times did he mention points when he did mention points he said yes they are necessary uh but they don't get you there you know like the production is a requirement but what he means by that is like you can't be uh you can't be a quarter of a point game guy and expect to be the quarterback of the power play like that's not what you're getting recruited for you can be a quarter of a point uh guy if you are a stay at home defenseman that defends in it with with uh what does he use the word relentlessness right with relentlessness and gets the puck out of his end successfully 90% of the time like there is room for you um so yes stats is a thing it's something that parents and and players get fixated on uh and and you know it's fun to score you mean it's fun to set guys up there's uh nothing wrong with that aspect of the game you I love scoring goals uh but you do need to understand the details of the game uh the other side of the puck the nuances uh you know us our discussion about curiosity and and being being curious and engaged in the game you know these are the things that allow you to get your foot in the door at the next level on the next team you want to play on um whether that be you know junior level or or ncAA or pro or even the triple eight maybe program uh that that's in front of you right now you know be be somebody that does more than one thing and um and and to do that you need to be uh have a motor as uh as Clint said you need to be curious as we said uh you need to have a passion and uh and you want to be the most well-rounded player that you can be uh that is uh that is a a surefire way to get you opportunity to allow you to uh open doors like as he said you know in a in an NCAA program when you're stepping in there you're gonna be fourth line left wing even though you think you're a center in a second liner question is can you do that? The most important thing at the beginning is getting your foot in the door so you have an opportunity and establish yourself and then you grow from there. But the the requirements of that player in that position uh aren't probably what you've thought about you know or what maybe you enjoy doing right now so if you want to play hockey just go play hockey I encourage everyone to play hockey I think it's an awesome thing to start get started with but if you want to be a hockey player you have to start thinking about things a little differently and I thought that conversation uh was an awesome one uh for anyone out there who actually wants to be a hockey player so until next time you guys play hard and keep your head up