Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
EP. 154 - Trevor Stienburg - The Kraken's Eye: A Scouts Perspective
Trevor Steinberg shares his hockey journey from first overall OHL draft pick to his current role as an amateur scout with the Seattle Kraken, offering insights into player development, mental fitness, and what NHL teams truly value in prospects. His perspective bridges the gap between old-school hockey toughness and modern developmental approaches, emphasizing character, resilience, and the importance of making good decisions.
• Seattle Kraken scout Trevor Steinberg was the first overall pick in his OHL draft year and later selected 15th overall in the 1984 NHL draft (the same year as Mario Lemieux)
• Knee injuries significantly impacted his NHL career trajectory, forcing him to adapt his playing style
• After retirement, he immediately transitioned to coaching, eventually spending 20 years as head coach at St. Mary's University where he won a national championship
• As an amateur scout, Steinberg emphasizes that the Kraken prioritize "good people" in their draft selections, not just skill
• The Kraken approach development with patience – "when we draft somebody, we're drafting that 18-year-old to play games at 24"
• Steinberg investigates prospects beyond formal interviews by speaking with billets, trainers, and community members
• Mental fitness and resilience are critical components of player development that often get overlooked
• Young players need to "write their own script" by making deliberate decisions that align with their hockey goals
• Even if players don't reach the NHL, the character, work ethic and standards developed through hockey create value that extends into all aspects of life
You know Ron and everybody credit. You know take a guy like Shane Wright. You know he struggled. You know he went to the minors. He was an elite, elite player, exceptional status. He'd never been had the challenges he was going to get there. He'd always had it easy because he was so good. I give him credit. You know it's taken a couple of years but you know he's starting to really play. Well, he's starting. I think he's got 20 goals almost now. You know you got to believe in the process and I think more and more teams are doing that. But that's certainly the staple of what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2:That was Seattle Kraken amateur scout and former first overall OHL draft pick, trevor Steinberg, and you are listening to the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. Welcome to Up my Hockey with Jason Padolan, where we deconstruct the NHL journey, discuss what it takes to make it and have a few laughs along the way. I'm your host, jason Padolan, a 31st overall draft pick who played 41 NHL games but thought he was destined for a thousand. Learn from my story and those of my guests. This is a hockey podcast about reaching your potential. Hello there and welcome to, or welcome back to, the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan.
Speaker 2:I am your host, jason Padolan, and before we get started with today's guest and his introduction, I need to say sorry to all of you out there who have been waiting for an episode. It has been a minute, hasn't it? But so it goes. When you are an entrepreneur and a father of three and trying to do a million things, something has to go, and for me, it was the podcast the last while. It was just not easy to find the guests that I was looking for to track them down. My personal schedule was freaking crazy, making 12, 14 hour days, seven days a week. It just was getting to be a bit much, so I don't mean to give you my issues, it's just a real world explanation for why you haven't heard any episodes. So we are back, though, and we have a couple in the can, so we will be back on a weekly rotation here for the near future, and I'm excited about the guests that we do have.
Speaker 2:And in saying that, I have one favorite to ask you now that I am back, one favorite ask, because I've been watching the downloads and the stats, and for those of you who do listen to podcasts since you are here, you do listen to podcasts, and you probably listen to other ones other than mine I want to share something with you that a lot of people don't know that if you are a podcaster that means me and if you have a podcast, the way the metrics work for podcasts is downloads, not streams. Podcasts is downloads, not streams, so there is a big difference there, because I know that I, as a podcast listener, never download, like very rarely. I've maybe downloaded a few times, and that was just if I was going to go on a plane or something and there was one that I wanted to listen to, so in that scenario, I would download, but other than that, I just stream because I'm in data or I'm in Wi-Fi and I just listen when I listen and how I listen. But that is not a way to support your podcast, because when anyone asks me about affiliation or maybe they want to represent a product with me or whatever the case may be when it comes to that any type of the business side, when it comes to a podcast, they talk about downloads and I have no idea how, in this day and age, that they cannot combine streams and downloads, but they only use downloads. I know I'm being repetitive here, but I'm just trying to let this sink in that if you aren't downloading my podcast, you are not necessarily supporting the podcast in a way that can help me get it out there to more people and to bring on good sponsors onto the show.
Speaker 2:So I know there are a lot of you out there like me who probably listen to podcasts and don't download. So my request is since I've been off the airways for a little while and if this is your first time or if you are a longtime listener, I am asking you to pause right now and to download the episode. It's easy. You can delete it. Obviously, you're free to delete it after you're done. I don't know how much space is on your phone, but podcasts don't take up a lot of room. But, yeah, just download the darn thing. Download like the next three if you can, or even for the rest of your time listening to me if you want to download them. That would be fantastic too. But I just want to see, from a personal analytics standpoint, how many people actually don't download, because if you are anything like me, I'm sure there is a lot of you out there that don't. So I would like to see how much my metrics actually jump and how many people actually do listen to the show. I'm guessing, well, I'm guessing. I have my own theories which I'll share with you after. But if you do me that favor, if you've not paused already, pause and download. Download this one, download the next one, and we continue after this and I will share with you after. But if you do me that favor, if you've not paused already, pause and download. Download this one, download the next one, we continue after this and I will share with you the results how many more downloads come through, because I've been doing this for a long time now and I know roughly how many I get per seven days is how it works. They'll take the downloads from your most recent and then all the ones underneath it. So, yeah, uh, there's an experiment for me, so please to support the show I'd love you to download.
Speaker 2:Now let's talk about my guest, trevor steinways. Need to shift gears to trevor. Uh, trevor is. He's got a great story. He's from east coast, canada, which I love. I don't have enough guests from that part of our country and part of the hockey world. And Trevor has done it all like as a player and as a coach and now as a scout, as an amateur scout for the Seattle Crack. And Trevor Steinberg has a ridiculous hockey story. He was the first overall draft pick in the OHL draft his year. He was also drafted 15th overall in the 1984 NHL draft. That happened to be the year Mario Lemieux went first overall, so he went 14 picks after one of the best hockey players to ever lace up the skates. Kirk Muller was also involved in that draft.
Speaker 2:Anyways, trevor, by all accounts, was a heck of a hockey player. An injury to his knee kind of hurt his career and, I guess, his potential, as we discuss in the interview when it comes to him as a player. But that did not stop him from becoming a coach shortly after he retired, where he got in as the head coach with St Mary's University in the U Sports of the Canadian University League and he was there for 20 years 20 years as the head coach where he won a championship for sure won, and I think, two my goodness, I should know that right now but definitely a national champion with St Mary's University and, like I said, now he is one of the Seattle Krakens amateur scouts, scouting the Quebec League, I believe for the upcoming NHL draft. So we had a great conversation. Trevor is recognized by many out in the eastern provinces there as one of the good guys in the game, a real big supporter of maritime hockey, and I know you're going to love this episode. So, without further ado, I bring you Trevor Steinberg.
Speaker 2:All right, here we are. Welcome to the podcast, trevor Steinberg, all the way from Nova Scotia, nice, to meet you, you too. You too, jason. So where to start? I guess? Maybe we'll talk about the connection. So Mark Alexander is becoming to be a better friend of mine. You've known him for a long time. He was somebody that reached out to my call for action a little while ago from the podcast, which was awesome. I'm not sure if he told you about that. Well, I guess he did, trevor, because he used you as a reference, right?
Speaker 2:So Mark was somebody that wanted to work with Up my Hockey and get involved in the mindset capacity and it's been great to get to know him. And then I met him through you and now we're talking to a national championship coach and a 15th overall draft pick and an amateur scout for the Seattle Kraken. So I love the way the world works. Again. Maybe you can talk about that relationship with Mark and where that started from.
Speaker 1:Well, when I first when, I retired in 94, you know, it was because of injuries, it wasn't because I wanted to.
Speaker 1:And a guy, Daryl Young, was the coach of the Dalhousie Tigers and he asked me if I wanted to help out and I I automatically said yes, and Mark was one of the guys on the team and he was just a great kid. I really enjoyed working with him. Do whatever you ask him, you know complete investment in his in his hockey life, in his career as a hockey player and student, so it was quite enjoyable.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I'm already. I'm already going to go down a little rabbit hole just with what you said there. Uh, you know, you went on from an assistant coach to be the head coach of the um in saint john's there and uh, no, sorry, uh, not saint john's where were you, saint mary's sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, saint mary's. Uh won a national championship there, so you had a lot of players come through the system right now. You automatically said that you were a little bit drawn to mark because of his approach to the game. Like you didn't say nothing about him as a hockey player. Uh, you talked about his approach, his willingness to do things. Can you, can you speak to that from the coach's hat and for the players listening? Like what that, like what value that brand brings as a player to be somebody like that yeah, I can.
Speaker 1:You know, when you first start, uh, university I was pretty green and uh, but my little stint at dalhousie certainly opened my eyes to the fact that these kids are leaving major junior a where they're, you know, somewhat pampered, I guess, and um have sometimes uh unrealistic ideas of where they're going to go in hockey. So when we get them at the university level, they're going there. You know they're going to go in hockey. So when we get them at the university level, they're going there. You know they're going there to, you know, invest in themselves, go to school, and I just find it may take a year or two, but these kids really do mature quick, do well in school and I wasn't a real education guy before, obviously, I went straight from junior to pro hockey, but it's something I feel I almost missed and I give the guys so much credit for investing. They still want to play hockey and instead of going to some lower leagues, they'll take an off-ramp and go get their degree and I just think it's wonderful. I got a lot of time for those guys.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, no, that's impressive, the idea of investing in yourself. You mean you talk about that as as a human right, you mean in the education and the development of you on a personal side, but there's also the investment in the idea of, hey, I want to still be a better hockey player. I want to be a hockey player. You know, you're talking about now guys in the cia or U Sports in Canada. A lot of those guys it's not the end of the road for them. They're still trying to go somewhere. Some guys are just playing it out and you know, and using their university or their hockey as a vehicle to get an education. Maybe you can speak to the idea of players who do invest in themselves, who actually are a student not only of the game but of life and and how that can, uh, be a direct result of a faster development curve well, I think anybody that wants to get better, and that's what these kids are doing, a lot of them.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying there's not some kids that just want to lengthen their time there, and you know maybe even have the idea I'll go for one year and you know, see if I can't get a tryout the following year and so forth.
Speaker 1:But I even think those guys fall into the fact that once they enjoy themselves they realize that they're not alone. There's a lot of guys in a similar situation, but after you kind of get a couple years, you have a feeling of accomplishment and you see a little light at the end of the tunnel. And again you're right the CIS, while there're not a lot of players uh that went to the from the nhl.
Speaker 1:There are some, but there are certainly uh more numbers getting to the american league and turning pro and going to europe and so forth. So it's always nice to have the kids there that aren't uh just doing it to spend their school money and uh, you know, in one of us themselves and and play hockey as well and move on after they've got their degree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I had Derek Ryan on. I mean, there's other guys, but his story is so great he's a former guest and if anyone's listening that hasn't listened to the Derek Ryan episode, please go back and find it. So you know, doc, as they call it, he's been in Edmonton now for the last little while and came out a major junior with Spokane and had the long road to the NHL like four years in the CIAU and then over into you know, some real like remote European leagues, ended up in Finland and Sweden and then came back and started his NHL career at 30. Like you know, that's obviously not everybody's scenario, but everyone does have a different path and a different journey. So who are we to say who's going to make it and who's not? Right? It is about that development for sure, right, like for sure. It's about that investment piece for athletes and if you continue to invest in yourself, like who knows where you're going to end up 100%.
Speaker 1:I remember Derek played for University of Alberta. We played them a few times Exhibition and at the Nationals and they have a great program and I certainly remember him as being one of their top players and the one thing that sticks out is tenacious yeah.
Speaker 2:Good player, but he's tenacious At that time and I never saw him play one game of college hockey, so I can't speak to it. I looked at his numbers and he definitely was one of the top performers, but of college hockey, so I can't. I can't speak to it. I looked at his numbers and he definitely was one of the top performers, but was that like? Would you have picked him out of that crowd and said this guy was going to play 500 nhl?
Speaker 1:games at some point, like, did he look like that to you? No and no, no offense to dare um, at my point there was a long time ago for for me and I didn't think many guys would ever go from to the nhlL, but there's, you know, guys like him and Joel Ward played in the AUS for Prince Edward Island. That they're just wonderful stories. They really are. And Brett Severn, guy I played with, went to U of A as well. He's the media guy down in Texas right now, but he had a long, long career and was a great player. And I lived with Brett Severin and I can tell you he was as committed as they are. He was committed to investing himself in his education. But I've never seen a guy off the ice work that hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome, I love hearing those stories. Maybe a little snapshot of the U Sports scenario in Canada now. I mean, there's tons and we'll get into that. Maybe too, like the NCAA ruling that now major junior players can go to NCAA kind of put the whole junior hockey landscape on its ear, especially out here in the West, with the BCHL now not really knowing where it stands, and you have these major junior players that thought they didn't have a chance to play NCAA can now go there. Where does you sports fit in all this, in your opinion? Does it? Is there an impact? Have you seen it yet or what? What do you anticipate happening?
Speaker 1:Well, there's an impact for sure. I think they're just going to have to really go for a different pool of players in the tier two leagues. Now they can go after some pros that have played one or two years. They can still have some eligibility left, but yeah, for sure I heard, like you know, two-thirds of the kids playing major junior in their overage year committed or have, uh, signed up to go ncaa, and I think that's a that's great for the kids. Finally they start getting an opportunity, because I think those rules where you play one game or go 48 hours, that's it's an awful price to pay to sacrifice the opportunity of going to, you know, a good college in the states and so forth, and now they've got both options yeah now.
Speaker 2:So what, as far as you mean you were a coach, you sports, for a long time. Uh, was there much crossover for you to the ncaa program? I know sometimes there's the odd exhibition game here and there, like how do you feel the level is comparatively? Then I mean I'll say then I'll just say like pre-new ruling, right, so let's say last year or the season before, like what does the landscape look like between the two leagues?
Speaker 1:Well, I think the best teams in in canada, you know, let's just say you know the? U of a's and uh, unbs and so forth. I think they can go down and compete with most of the teams down there. But there's, you know, in in the before it was more of a. In the past it was guys that played that didn't get drafted, got drafted, didn't get signed and know maybe they have a flaw in them. You know they're a little small but they're not skaters. There's a reason why somebody didn't sign them. So when they come to us they're seasoned, veteran players and they're great hockey players at times. You know some of them have all the pro potential. They just they're lacking. That you know they've got. You know their skating's not down their size or something.
Speaker 1:But I think the NCAA is younger, but I think that that's the route. A lot of the that's how the guys from the States used to get to the NHL was through their school. So there was always a lot of, you know, superstars, potential superstars there. And when we went down, we always just found that the speed was a little bit little. And when we went down, we always just found that the speed was a little bit little high for us at times but we did go down. Later in my coaching career we went down there and put in a few other schools down there RPI and so forth but yeah, I would say on average, they might be a touch faster and younger, you know, and they're actually playing to get drafted a lot of times too.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so like the young and you're and you're just mentioning like kind of the draft eligible guys are mostly, I guess, the us born players in that scenario are the guys like the top end talent is there then, whereas, like the top end talent, um would be gone from the Canadian pool, although there's, like there's accomplished players there. That's the one thing that I was kind of wondering, because there's a lot of, like you know, whl all-stars, ohl all-stars that are playing playing youth sports hockey, right, that have, that were accomplished major junior players but for whatever reason, like you said, just didn't get the pro opportunity. So definitely good players, but we're good players, but we're we're missing that top level 17 year old, that top level 18 year old, that that the uh that the american players are bringing to to the ncaa, which is maybe and and I'd like your opinion on this I've always wondered why there's not more pro guys coming out of u sports, like there is more now, uh, but my theory was that there's less reason to scout there, right, because there's not the youth players in the youth sports system. So like there's not as much traffic as would be going to the ncaa. Who's seeing these? You know, like guys like yourself if you were assigned to that league.
Speaker 2:Right, you're watching a 17 year old, you also see the 23 year old that looks. Oh, that guy's pretty good. You know like maybe we should, maybe we should have some more eyes on him. So I think there might be a chance for more exposure at the NCAA level. How do you feel about that theory as far?
Speaker 1:as oh yeah, there's no questions. There's a pile of scouts at NCAA games, you know they're watching 17 and 18-year-old guys at the same time. It's getting a little older now, but with us, you know, I always found it funny that I'm right here in Halifax and the Mooseheads have got a wonderful program. They fill the rink every night and they have three overage players that are so close to pro and they didn't. And then they end up going to university here at St Mary's or at Dalhousie or at Katy or really close by, and people have no idea where they went or anything. Really, they just focus on the team at hand.
Speaker 1:But they don't understand that some of these players that they loved so much and, you know, gave so much production to the team, were overage players and these guys have decided, instead of maybe going to the East Coast, that they're going to use their school package, go to school, and I think that's a real mature decision because they can always play in those leagues when they're done. In fact, they'll probably be better if they spend their time wisely when they go to university and by playing, you know, kind of twice a week and having the full week off. There's a lot of guys that even I've had in other teams, that some of those guys take that time and use it to get better. You know, work out, train, you know, do things with their skating and stuff the guys that really want it. Um, we'll probably end up playing pro at some level, and some of them at the NHL, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the thing about getting more eyeballs on them. I think it's just more of that opportunity to have to have, you know, the exposure uh needed and, um, maybe some guys can make the jump to the NCAA too, because I think that's just going to be more highly scouted now. Like that's. That shift has happened for sure right now, with with even like the better major junior players are going to be able to play NCAA. Uh, it'll be, it'll be a good thing to watch the landscape for sure and see, see how it happens. What, um, let's get back to you. Let's start with you as a player. Uh, really intriguing, 15th overall is no joke in 84. And uh, and is also no joke is that you were 14 picks behind Mario Lemieux, so that draft was.
Speaker 1:It was way more than 14 picks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I get it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that was quite a. Those first few picks were incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kirk Muller, mario Lemieux, Kirk Muller who I was traded for, by the way. I'm sure you didn't know that, so there's another trivia. So when I was in florida I got traded for, uh, for kirk muller, one for one of the trade deadline in my rookie year. So I went to toronto, uh on on that deal.
Speaker 1:so uh, so I was. Yeah, you must have been a stud kirk. Uh, kirkstrom kingston. He and I are good friends. He's a great guy, great guy, and he's done really well.
Speaker 2:They're doing great in washington now too yeah, he's been around, yeah, and he's been you know what. And the funny kirk story. So if you know him that well, I actually I have him on my phone I, I, you know, I, I don't know him. He knows that we got traded for each other and and he was, uh, he was somebody I wanted to have on the pod for obvious reasons, right, I mean great career. We got traded for each other.
Speaker 2:Uh, the funny story is, though, back in the day I I had I just finished a stint up with florida, uh, before I got traded, so my car was actually down in miami, although I started the year in the ahl in greensboro, right, so you know, you were an up and down guy too, right, I mean, your life changes, as it happens, and, and so I got sent down while my car was in florida, and then, when I was, I didn't get a chance to get my car back and I got traded to Toronto. So Kirk comes in straight to Florida. So the boys gave him the keys to my car, which he drove around for like a week, which I didn't even know, right back in the day he was driving my.
Speaker 2:BMW around Florida with the top down. So anyways, that was kind of funny. I wanted, I wanted to uh rib him about that a little bit, that there's still a little rent-o-ing on that rental that he had. I can stay, yeah.
Speaker 2:He has the money to pay you too. Yeah, so you'll have to get us connected. I'd love to have him on as a guest. Anyway, talk about that draft. So that was like the infamous draft. Mario comes in like, heralded like some that never have been. He fit the billing, uh, did you? First of all, let's just talk about that. The Mario Lemieux draft was like was how was the hype for you, even as a player, that was a first round to yourself with him involved in it.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure I even understood the magnitude of the draft at that point. But um, a lot of my buddies say that's how I became famous, because I was sitting about a row in front of mario or behind him. So when, when his name was called, I got a little air time, but just that was about as much as I got, but it was incredible I kind of knew mario a little bit because we had the same agent and what a guy he is, great guy, like you know.
Speaker 1:Again, kirk moeller, the same thing. So yeah was a. That was a crazy draft. There was a lot, of, a lot of hype around the two of them. But certainly Mario, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:It was pretty cool when I look back, when it comes to that, like let's go, let's rewind. It looked from looking at your DB, it looked like you. It was your rookie year in the OHL. Your yes, yeah, yeah, okay, so you're, you're stepping into the ohl as a 17 year old. Uh, on a personal level, like what, what were your expectations walking through that door? Like were you? Were you trying to make the team even? Like, did you? Did you know you had a spot before camp? Like what was that whole environment like leading into your draft year?
Speaker 1:draft year to go to the ontario league. Yeah, to go to the ontario.
Speaker 2:no to go to go to the Ontario. No to go to the Ontario League as a into your draft year, so as a rookie into the Ontario League.
Speaker 1:You know I have a hard time thinking back to that, but I was so green at that point my family moved out to a place called Moscow, ontario, to live, so my grandmother could stay out where she lived out in the country and so I played double D hockey. So there weren't even enough players sometimes. So my grandmother could stay out where she lived out in the country and so I played double D hockey. So there weren't even enough players sometimes to make the team, so it was pretty low and I went to a summer hockey. My dad asked me if I wanted to play summer hockey and I said yes. So we ended up going and the midget teams, uh, said they were full.
Speaker 1:So my, my engineering, one of my teachers at school, was coaching the junior team so he said come on out. So I went out and I actually made the team so I played and then all of a sudden the hype came and then the draft came and so by the time I got to guelph, uh, I guess I just didn't know any better. I just kind of played. Obviously I was a high draft choice going in, but it all happened so fast.
Speaker 2:You were a high pick in the OHL draft.
Speaker 1:Yes, I was first, actually, but that was the year that Olachuk Rolachuk Iafredi. They all said that they were going to a couple teams, and Guelph being one of them, and when they asked me I said I'll go anywhere, I'm drafted to.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so I went there, but that was kind of straight out of. Well, hold on, let's pause this. So you're the first overall. I didn't even look that up.
Speaker 1:So you're the first overall selection to the OHL draft your year yeah, but it was because of you know, some guys were saying kind of dictating where they wanted to go.
Speaker 2:Oh, I understand but you're being pretty humble. Even if those guys were in your fourth overall or fifth, so that's pretty cool, yeah, okay. So then that that obviously sets the stage for my like the next question. Doesn't really matter that you are 100 going to be on the team rolling into camp as a as-year-old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was kind of. The team was quite new, They'd just gotten into major junior A, so it was a little different, but it was good and I knew Kirk was there. Kirk was played for Guelph as well, so you know, I had a couple friends going into camp, but I was pretty raw when I went there and you know, blind to, I guess, the future. You know of pro hockey and so forth. I was just a country kid that everything happened so fast really.
Speaker 2:Right, well, sometimes that's the best way, because you don't get caught up in like what to even think about, right, like I mean, you're just playing hockey and you don't really even know like the magnitude of a weekend or who was watching you or what's going on.
Speaker 1:Absolutely correct. Yeah, I didn't really, and you know it was kind of my junior career but I ran into. You know, I went to camp after I was drafted and in an exhibition game against Toronto I blew my knee out and that started a whole bunch of problems because it really wasn't diagnosed. Great.
Speaker 2:They didn't do scopes as much.
Speaker 1:I don't think that.
Speaker 2:So I they thought I did my uh, medial collateral only, but I did my anterior cruciate and that just snowballed, and so I had a few surgeries during my junior career oh gotcha, I'm going to take a short break from the podcast to give a shout out to one of the umh68 sponsors oh, and one of my spring program sponsors, and that's iron ghost construction. Uh, back again in 2025 with umh68 as a provincial sponsor. Uh, what a fantastic. Uh, what a fantastic company this is and what a great guy behind it all. Iron Ghost Construction has been incorporated since 2012 and has grown to be recognized as a top contractor in multiple industries, such as oil and gas, forestry and agriculture across Western Canada, from building turnkey production facilities that produce canola oil, biodiesel condensate and oil to keeping up with the industry changes in forestry, where new technology and equipment are replacing that of the past. Iron Ghost specializes in the main structures, with the large employment of iron workers, crane operators and millwrights. Iron Ghost has successfully completed projects in BC, alberta and Saskatchewan, which is why I'm so excited that he's on the pod. I know that the podcast itself reaches everywhere. My goodness, I think there was 52 countries or something crazy last year downloaded episodes of the Up my Hockey podcast, which is wild. But there is a big concentration of people in the Western provinces British Columbia, alberta, saskatchewan, manitoba and this is right where Iron Ghost specializes. I know there's a lot of good hockey people in some of these infrastructures that he is producing stuff in. So if you are a listener of the pod, if you are into hockey and Iron Ghost is something that you could use, my goodness, would that be amazing for Trevor and the owner of Iron Ghost to be like hey, I'd love to get you involved in one of my projects. Let's get you to bid something here. I want to work with good hockey people and that's what Trevor is.
Speaker 2:Iron Ghost owner Trevor McKechnie grew up as the stick boy for the Vernon Lakers in the Mel Liss era of the Vernon Lakers at the age of seven, to being a head trainer for the evolving Vernon Vipers under Duncan Ray. Trevor was a part of the locally filmed Making the Cut that was here in Vernon as a trainer, working alongside NHL trainers such as Jim Pizzutelli, who was known for helping save Clint Malarchuk after a scary throat slice in 1989 versus the St Louis Blues. Jim was working with the Florida Panthers at the time and invited Trevor to come down to Fort Lauderdale to work with the Panthers training camp. It's crazy how Trevor and I have that connection as well, with me being with the Panthers and after years of training in the BCHL, trevor took his sports medicine to the Justice Institute of BC where he completed his paramedicine and worked with the BC Ambulance Service in Surrey, bc. The scene changed when Trevor was offered a good opportunity to work back home in construction, leading crews and making twice of what the government was currently playing to work away from home on a four by four off, 12 hour shift position as a paramedic. So, with his connections to the playing days in lacrosse and hockey locally, iron Ghost Construction is also a known sponsor with the Greater Vernon Minor Hockey Association, minor Lacrosse, junior Lacrosse and many other sports teams in the Okanagan.
Speaker 2:Trevor is definitely somebody that gives back. I've been working with his son Carter for a while. I mean, he's involved in sports, he loves to be a part of the local community here and through his sponsorship with the UMH 68, now as a provincial sponsor with that event, he's really giving back to a game that has obviously been a huge part of his life. So once again, the idea here is, yes, to recognize people who want to get involved in sports. I know there's a lot of people out there, a lot of corporations out there, that do. Um, I'm a big fan of Iron Ghost and Trevor and uh and of course you mean if, if, if, we can somehow get more work to him, uh, through this podcast, that would be amazing, and I'd love to see him rewarded for for everything that he does for the people here in this community. So that's Iron Ghost. Thanks again to Iron Ghost, and if there's anyone else who is interested in becoming a sponsor of the UMH 68 and be a provincial sponsor in either Saskatchewan or Manitoba, that position is available for this year and for coming years.
Speaker 2:I'd love to work with like-minded people that want to give back to the great game and also lower the costs of what it is to host an event like the UMH 68. And that is one thing that I actually forgot to mention is that, with the provincial sponsorship level, part of the proceeds that come with that from Trevor and from Iron Ghost is a scholarship program that allows me to lower the fees for people who can't come otherwise, it's really important for me that these events aren't just for people who are good and have money. It's supposed to be for the best players in the province, the players that have earned it. There's obviously a cost involved of putting this event on and there's costs incurred with that. I would love to have the entire event run through corporate dollars and have everyone be able to show up there for nothing. We are growing this thing. That's my big plan, so I'm throwing it out there that that is what I want to have happen. That this is not another check to parents. I believe in the UMH 68. I believe in the development experience provided. I know that it's different than anything out there. I really believe that this is something that should be on your priority card. For anyone who does get an invite, you are going to leave a better person and a better player from one of my events. But I do know that there is a cost involved with coming to that event and that is something that I don't like to see. But with good people like Trevor McKechnie and Iron Ghost and companies like Iron Ghost, they're there to help lower the fees and lower the costs and make it approachable for everyone. So, yeah, if that speaks to you out there, if you are a company owner that wants to be involved, by all means reach out. Jasonmyhockeycom, I'd love to have you involved.
Speaker 2:Now let's get back to the episode with Trevor Steinberg. Let's just stick on your on your draft year there. So, uh, still, though, so you, you, you come in first overall pick. Kirk muller's already on the team. I saw they led your team in points that year, but you actually led the team in goals. Uh, you're rolling along. Obviously must be feeling pretty good about yourself. At what point did somebody want to represent you? Uh, at what point did you know that, hey, I might be a first round selection in the nhl, like? Do you remember, like the, the, the time sequence of any of that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think it was kind of just around the ontario hockey league draft that, uh, I was approached I think you know kirk might have had something to do with it with gus vidali, um, great guy loved him, um, but he uh, yeah, I had him, and it was kind of weird, like I, you know, I'm from a small town, so I kind of felt funny saying I got an agent, you know so, yeah, yeah, but yeah, he was, he was my guy and um, you know, so it was uh, you know, that's's how I kind of got into it and got to know guys like Mario as well.
Speaker 2:Right, right, and then when did he? So? He was the one that was telling you about where your placement was.
Speaker 2:I know the hockey news, like I tell my boys all the time, right, Like they don't even understand a world without internet, right, like there's no such thing for them. And so I was saying there was this one publication called the Hockey News back in our day that we would read. It was like the hockey Bible, right, it came out whatever it was once a week or once every two weeks. And then there was like the draft rankings would come out, you know, in certain capacity there, and like that was the only place that you would ever see it. And I know that my draft year I was locked into the Hockey News. Like I was totally looking at that and watching it and reading what people were saying, but that was essentially the only place you could see it. And then the other place would be through my agent, potentially, right, that would be saying, hey, you know so and so likes you, or maybe so and so is coming to the game. But it was really like essentially you're operating in a vacuum. Uh, back in our day, like, do you remember?
Speaker 1:it was the bible. Yeah, you're right when I think it was the bible. Yeah, you're right when I think it, I am I. You just saying that kind of put that all in perspective. You'd have to wait for the hockey news to come out to see what was going on and what everybody was saying and so forth.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah I do remember that and yeah, you're always looking at where you're ranked and so forth, and you know, know that. You know sometimes you're playing against that player the next night, so there's always competition. Yeah, so yeah, it did keep things interesting yeah, that's fun.
Speaker 2:So at any point, um, you know you mentioned kind of being a touch green, you know, or oblivious to what was happening around you in that environment, coming from a small town and sort of your your own personal pathway there. Um, did the pressure ever show up in that draft year about you know what was really happening? Did? Did you ever have to deal with with any adversity or any type of thing like that?
Speaker 1:I think my biggest adversity was probably and I've been perfectly honest probably a bit of my immaturity, um, but injuries. So uh, I would say when I finally dialed myself in I was probably 19 or 20. At that point the damage had kind of been done on my knees so my skating had taken a bit of a dip. So that was a bit of an issue. Quebec at the time, for instance, in 88, 89, I basically had had my first full year up, wasn't a great year, but you know, it was a year of development and I was getting excited for the next year. And then, uh, michelle Bergeron came back as the coach and he basically traded for two veteran left or right wingers, which, uh, kind of put me in my place, I guess. You know I didn't even think that much about it, but in hindsight, yeah, they're bringing in Lucien Deblois and Guy Lafleur. I kind of figured I might be out. So yeah, that was a. That was a bit of an eye opener for me.
Speaker 1:And then you know again, with being a little bit held back, with injuries and so forth, you know the battle's on, you're trying to play catch up and I do give myself credit for you know the effort I put in off the ice and so forth, but, um, I just never was able to get any traction, uh, when it counted. So it's uh it's a tough league and, like I say, injuries are a part of it. Everything is and things have to line up right to play in that league.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, like it. It is such a fine line, isn't it? And you know, an injury is not a small part of that fine line. I mean, if you're, if you're five, ten percent like you, you pick whatever number, it is right that you've lost from an injury. To play in the best league at the world in the world against the best players in the world, that's a, that's a big detractor, you know, and, and it can be frustrating for sure, how, how was your approach to that, like your rehab, like how aware were you that you had kind of lost a step, and and what were you willing to do to try and try and make that happen?
Speaker 1:Well, I went the year I made it, I had a real good camp and I but again, I'd had my surgery done and so forth, and um, I just found that during the season, this long season back then, it wasn't as diligent as you know, in-season training and so forth.
Speaker 1:So I would actually just get weaker, get worse as the year went on and, uh, at one point my I think it was in 1990 they, I had to have more surgery done to clean it out. But again, you know, sometimes the damage is already done, but it's, it's real tough to get back. You know, when you're held back by something and you know I'm gonna say I wasn't the greatest skater quick. Why quick? Quickness wise. So it took its toll. And again you just have to look in the mirror at times and say maybe, you know, at that time of my life I just wasn't ready. You know, I wasn't, uh, it wasn't good enough, yeah what about so 15th overall?
Speaker 2:I have no idea in 84 what the signing bonuses were like, but I'm sure you got something. How big of a change was that for you from a personal life standpoint, and what was your first purchase?
Speaker 1:I can tell you that my signing bonus, I believe, was $50,000. My first salary was $75,000, $85,000. Started. My first salary was 75, 85. And then I think it went to something like 110 or something. On my third year, and I can remember I roomed with Joe Sackick in training camp. I remember saying in our third year bud, I'm going to be making more than you. You know he'd already been Rookie of the Year the year at that point he was on his way to it. But yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't near what it is today. But you know, again, I thought, you know, through my parents they were just I was never a sports car guy. I think I bought a Mazda 626 or my next car was a Jeep, but yeah, I was kind of cheap. I think deep down I knew maybe I wasn't gonna make it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's I.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saved it pretty much right, um, yeah, that's fun, though I mean it's looking back, you don't really realize it at the time, because it's hard to be mature when you're not mature, right like it's. It's, it's difficult. You, whatever that money was, uh, you know, I think my signing bonus was 350 uh us, which was geez. That's still a lot of money. And, like, right now, you know, to get that at 18, 19 years old and uh, and it's it's wild, right like to, to think that you know you're handing this type of money over to 18 19 year old kids, and I think about conor bernard right now, right, like you know, like what's expected, expected of him as a 19-year-old player in his second year in the NHL is crazy.
Speaker 2:When you look at, like the cross-section of 19-year-olds, like in your hometown, and what they're doing, right, it's like you, just because you're a great hockey player, all of a sudden, like everything needs to elevate, like it's almost unfair at times.
Speaker 1:you know what the expectation is on some of these young guys? Yeah, it really is and you know some kids kind of prepare for it. You know, in the big cities they're. You know it's more professionalized there it's. I mean it's catching up now, but I can remember, you know there were people on my street, you know, and back in moscow they didn't even know I played hockey, maybe you know they just they were just good old farmers and they did their thing and I was just a little brat that lived down the road that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:What's the um? Since you just smiled there and we were talking about your tooth before I got, I got to ask how? How did we lose that one? Was that a boring high stick, like my friend tooth, or was it? Was it a big fight, or how did it happen?
Speaker 1:I don't know how it didn't happen in a fight. I've lost most of them, but yeah, this was actually afterwards. It was chipped badly and then the dentist just basically took it out and I've got a flipper. And, like I said before, my wife just hates it without knowing. This way I look right now. I'm sure a lot of people do, but I think I left it on the dashboard of the truck. I've lost it, so I I don't think she's going to want another $2,000 bill, so she's got to put up with it.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that because you know the game was. You know you played in the early 90s. I mean the game was tough then. You also had, can you?
Speaker 1:hear me, I'm lost.
Speaker 2:Oh, you can't hear me. Hello, hello, hello, hello. Yeah, so we were just talking about, like in the 90s, tough hockey, lots of fights, you know, even guys that weren't necessarily fighters were expected to do it Now and again. It seemed like, looking at your hockey DB, that your penalty minutes kind of went up a little bit. Was that something that you wanted to add to your game or they were asking you to add to your game?
Speaker 1:Well, I wouldn't say that. But when I, when I got sent down to the minors in fredericton, they shared a team, quebec shared a team with vancouver, so it was like 20 guys showed up at training camp from each place and it was a dog fight. So you know it was, it was real life. You know it was. If I was a second, first or second guy in the depth chart, maybe in Fredericton, if Vancouver had two guys that were better than I, go to third. So you know, a lot of times it was, you know, not a ton of ice time and I just had to make myself different from the other guys.
Speaker 1:So again, I'll give give myself credit. I wasn't a very good fighter but I was certainly willing and, um, I did what I could do. You know I I had a couple good roommates, one of them being jimmy agnew was with vancouver and you know he, he was a tough kid and you know he, I would just talk to him and he kind of helped me through it. But yeah, I just started realizing I had to make myself a little bit more of a unicorn. And it was a long year, man, I'll tell you. I think I played 55 games and had 279 minutes, and then in the playoffs I played 13 games and had 115 minutes in penalties. So you know, and I got a lot of silver medals in the fights.
Speaker 1:But you know I actually didn't, it didn't bother me really. I guess you just feel good after doing something, right, you know, sticking up for your teammates and you know if I didn't get a lot of ice that game and did something, or whether I did, you know, obviously back then the coaches loved that stuff and you know they would, you know, keep you in the lineup if you're willing to do that. So, um, my second year in the minors, we actually went to the calder cup and it was a great experience for me, exhausting, um, I don't think my eyes were went back to normal until august, the next summer, but they were black all summer. But, um, yeah, it was a. It was a hell of an initiation or period of time where you got to realize how bad you want something. And I really did want to play.
Speaker 2:I loved, love the guys, I loved the atmosphere, I loved everything, but I I just had to find a way to to have some value to the team that's uh, that's a pretty deep topic and I I encourage players to think about what you just said there and and not necessarily as a young, young player in the sense of you know adding, you know violence or fighting or that type of stuff but but being as well-rounded as you can be, I think, gives you more ways to be valuable.
Speaker 2:You know, and I I know everyone I shouldn't say everyone, but majority of players, youth players they love scoring goals and contributing offensively and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I would never take take that away from anybody. But you know the value of angles in your own end, the value of being able to block a shot, the value of being responsible on face-offs, you know the value of maybe being physical and providing some momentum changes with the big hit, like these are all things that I think when you put the more, more tools that you can in your toolbox, uh, they're accomplishing what you were trying to do at the pro level right, like how to stay relevant, how to give the coach a reason to put you on the ice. Do you think that there is value for younger players to try and think that way as far as building their skill toolkit?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would never, you know, tell young kids to go out and, you know, hurt anybody or do anything. But you know, I think people just need to realize when you hit pro there's a lot of money at stake.
Speaker 1:You know you go get a real job in an office or you get a chance to do this and you know there's a bit of a euphoria, I guess, about being able to, you know, be respected by your teammates because of loyalty. So yeah, I, so I tipped it to go that way. But, getting back to your point, I'm working on your angles and doing this. You can't get too good at anything and I think you need to develop so much. In fact, kids probably, you know, work on their strengths more than their weaknesses.
Speaker 1:You know, I can remember I had a big shot, you know everybody talked about how hard my shot was. So I just kept shooting pucks, you know, but didn't take care of the other things you know what I mean Like my agility, my skating, um, and again, just go to the gym and just do squats till I didn't feel well, and you know I didn't have the proper information. I just kind of jumped in wholeheartedly and just did whatever I thought and I thought best way to do that was just train until I dropped every day, basically, and we know now that's not the way to do it, but but yeah, you, certainly you know, I scout all the time now and there's some kids that don't they.
Speaker 1:They don't have a b game, say you know, if they're not scoring they're, they're not of any value really. So, yeah, you do need to work on everything and be a complete player now right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love you touching on that and I was going to segue into you you as a scout and watching players now, and how you evaluate the idea of being one-dimensional.
Speaker 2:Like how many guys can be one-dimensional, you know, like there's such a few few players and when I'm talking on the offensive side of the puck, I mean Conor Bedard is a really good example.
Speaker 2:I mean some analysts now are starting to pick him apart because he hasn't really understood how to take a face off and he is a big minus every night and he's not great away from the puck and if he is not all these things and he's not producing at elite levels, now he's under the microscope and I understand he's only 19 and there's a lot of career left for him and I'm sure he's going to figure it out. But like we're talking about one of the highest producing junior talents of all time, right, that is still in the NHL because he has that elite offensive ceiling. There's way more people that aren't Conor Bedard, right, that need to work on their game a little bit more. But I think like the self-awareness piece of that for amateur athletes isn't quite there, Like everyone thinks that they're just going to continue to be a goal scorer. Can you maybe speak to that a little bit about what you see at the amateur level?
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, that's. It's incredible. I mean you see guys down with 90 points in the American League and they're not getting a chance to go up and play. Same with juniors, you know so forth like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel for Bedard. You know he's in there one time, you know, on his own end, and he's in his own crease and some guy was just bigger and stronger than him and had a bit of a jump on him and scored a goal and you know everybody's saying, well, he's got to have a stick and have. I mean it takes some time. This guy hasn't had any challenge in his life really per se, until he gets to this league right now, and now he realizes it. But you know, I think people should lay off him. There's no question. I mean he needs to get seasoned for the league and every player does. You know every player does, I think every player that even offensively they probably have been sat for you know reasons, because of their defensive liability or because they didn't have a B game when they weren't scoring. They just weren't doing anything.
Speaker 2:I'm going to ask you a question about Connor. I don't know how much you watch him I don't watch him a ton, but this is just from the outside looking in and I heard well, I guess maybe there's a little bit of a backstory, because I heard in Regina that depends who you talk to that maybe he was not the best teammate in certain capacities. Okay, so I don't know if that's true or not, but one thing I did see with my own eyes, and that was this year. He came down wide, and it's happened more than this once, but this one time in particular stood out to me. It was a game that Chicago hadn't been doing very well, as they haven't been doing well all year. They hadn't won in a while.
Speaker 2:They were in a game at home where the score I think it was 1-1 or 2-1 or something, and he scored a goal from a sharp angle, like kind of world junior style, over the goalie's shoulder, under the bar, like gorgeous shot, bedard shot, and his response is what I want to talk about. So like elite skill, everything that happened there. But in the context of the game and in the context of what the score was and in the context of what the season was he didn't celebrate and there was no smile. He never put his hands up. The boys came in to like congratulate him and there was like monotone, right.
Speaker 2:Then he went down the bench and he did his thing and I just looked at that as like a 19 year old kid and I'm going how is that not like like I want to root for you, right, and even as a teammate you talked about being a loyal teammate, right, and I've been on, you know, we've been on teams and it's like that kind of sucks the energy out of everything that's happening there, right, and I think it's somebody that, like it makes them hard to follow, hard to like, hard to want to do well, that's the interpersonal side of it. I don't know if you agree with me I'm sure there's lots of people that don't and just think, hey, that's completely fine. But me being his teammate, I want him to be fired up there. I want him to be excited. I want him to show some emotion, because I want to show emotion as well.
Speaker 1:I can see that and you know, on the surface I can see how anybody would think that I can't remember I didn't score a lot of goals, but there were some times when you know I get an assist or a goal and you know it was just where's your mind frame? You know we're on a 10 game pointless streak and is it over, and you're just, oh, my God, thanks. You know. You don't know what's going through his head. He could be thinking he's cocky and arrogant.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile maybe the kid inside isn't, he isn't confident, you know, maybe even scoring that goal, you know he felt he's still underachieving or so forth. So there's a, there's a lot of things that are going through kids heads again, again, he's 19 and there's some kids that you know 18, 19 and 20 and even older that you know don't go get jobs, they're too lazy to go to school, they've got bad. So you think here's a young kid and I mean he's thrown onto this throne. Yeah, he didn't ask for it, he's just good, and over the course of 80 games and the scrutiny and so forth, like that, you know, I'm sure when he went home he was, he was obviously glad he scored. So the reason why he didn't maybe celebrate, is, you know, maybe the fact he was just a relief out of frustration?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it is a maturity thing. Like again, I have no idea where he's at mentally personally in that scenario, like to to your point, but I do think if he was 25 in that same scenario he would. He would recognize the optics of that and even the impact on those around him, right? And I think, like that's one of the things that, as we grow as players, we understand from from an emotional iq standpoint, like what we do and the impact that it has, right and and how?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think, yeah, it's very confusing, you know, when I don't know coaches and so forth, like that. But I, you know, I've seen games where you know the team's lost and the coaches said you know, we weren't tough. And these guys take it to heart, you know. So sometimes they might go home after that sunday whooping and you know, monday show up and coach said we weren't tough enough. So you know, you see, guys go and start fights and practice and so forth, and it's not because they probably want to, it's just how do I? I react? You know how do I react. There's no kind of instructions. You know one-on-one how to react to success or failure. So I think we all have to give these kids a break and, you know, maybe judge them a little later in their career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no 100%. How do you do that as a scout now? Like so you're watching physical intangibles for sure? Uh, of course. Right, like, how do they play? Hockey is going to be a big one. I. I think that there's being more of a spotlight shined on the interpersonal side of it, right, like you're trying to figure out what type of person they are as well in that environment. Do you? Do you look for that? Is there a checkbox or is there a? Is there a?
Speaker 1:way that you evaluate. Yeah, yeah, you know a lot of people say, well, you interview the player. You know we all interview the players that we want to draft and that's just the way the scouting world works and pro hockey and all pro sports probably. But you know I tend to do a little bit more digging. You know around and you know you can talk to kids' billets. They'll probably say all the right things. You know kids billets. They'll probably say all the right things.
Speaker 1:You know, um, knowing kids from around halifax that play on teams. Sometimes you ask you know you poke and prod at different things. You know trainers and so forth. Um, first of all, you have to like them on the ice and if you like a guy that's tenacious and part of liking a guy is, you know, you see a bit of a maturity there at times. Not saying all of them, there's some kids that you know I've liked, I know that are immature and they just need time to grow mentally and physically, but they're, you know, a lot of times you're drawn to those guys that give consistent efforts and so forth. They're good teammates and and, being honest, yeah, I've I've liked a player well enough to draft him, but I've. I've been skeptical of his attitude or him as a teammate and so forth, and opted that it wasn't worth the risk.
Speaker 2:Right. Has that ever shown up as being? I shouldn't say ever. I know it has. But how do we combine those two sides from a scouting capacity and how relevant do you think it is, like the personal side of the hockey player, to become an NHL pro? Like, how dialed does that need to be, in your opinion, to make it happen?
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's hard. I think you know you take your views, you take all the comments that have been made, you talk to him.
Speaker 1:You know as much as you can. You know what I mean. You have to be professional about it. You know as much as you can. You know I mean, you know you have to be professional about it. But and I guess sometimes you know it's and I'm learning as a scout but sometimes you have to put all those things in and swish them around and see how it tastes, and you know, sometimes you're giving up one thing to take another.
Speaker 1:But you know, there's not too often there's the perfect kid out there and uh, and again. A lot of times I reflect back to you know, I thought I in hindsight I thought I was quite immature and made some poor decisions and and when I was younger and I know that I learned from those and you know I tried to make myself better a person about it, but and a better but it was a little bit late. But, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's. There's no recipe for it, really, it's just you just get a feeling, you know, and that's, that's about as much as I can say, especially when you're mixing in their personality as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I, I when like the like the development work that I do, I do a lot of on ice development work, but I also do a lot of like mindset work and a lot of personal development work, and I, and I think that those are skills too and and to your point we talked about in your own career like, there's a lot of opportunity between the whistles outside of the game, you know, with with some of the choices we're making, how we're choosing to spend our time, that really make a big difference in the hockey player that we've become and who we are in the locker room and these types of things.
Speaker 2:And uh, and I just think that, uh, that boy, you know, when we're talking about being a pro, uh, most guys get there around 23, 22, 23, 24, right, like there's, there's some oats that need to be sown there, right, and there needs to be a passion for the game, there needs to be an approach that happens Like it's definitely a marathon, not a race, and if we only think about the hockey optics, I think that we're missing a big piece of that puzzle to actually get to where a lot of these guys want to get to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always go back your intestinal fortitude and that tenaciousness. And you have to eat, sleep and drink hockey. You know, and you know every I get a kick at every kid that gets an interview what do you like to do? And you know, kid says I love to train. You know, and you know he's six foot two and 175 pounds. You know like well, you're going to have to do more. You know, and I think some kids think they're working hard. And you know, I think some kids need that first camp sometimes. But you know, if they're not, if they don't get drafted, then they don't even get a chance to go. So there's constant pressure and you know life's not fair.
Speaker 1:Some kids there probably were good enough to make the National Hockey League and were at a higher level than they did, but, you know, because they couldn't find that intestinal fortitude then and maybe they could do it now, but it's too late. So you know, you really do need to seize the moment, and that's where it comes in really handy to have good people around you. You know, you see some things that are silly, but anybody that's not in your corner and not telling you the right things to do and allowing you to do the wrong things, you've got to decide who's your friends and cut bait on the people that aren't there telling you to do the right things, and I think every kid's made that mistake. But, uh, you know birds of a feather. So I said, you know, get in the right flock. And you know, even if you don't like it, you know and that you know I actually certainly kind of did sometimes.
Speaker 1:You know I, I actually certainly kind of did sometimes. You know, in the summer, you know, god, that those guys have awful training hours, or you know they're this or that. But you, you know, if you're writing your own script, you know what's the best place to go. That's going to be the hardest for me. That's when you're going to be more enjoyable. Well, you know road less traveled is, it's probably the best way to go yeah, nice, insight there, insight there, the uh, yeah, those choices matter.
Speaker 2:I talk about building it and your team, right, you're in a circle like who? Who are your mentors, who are your influencers? And really, I mean that's one of the few choices you get to make as a, as a hockey player, technically, right, like there's only so many things that are in your control, um, and if you can, if you can control some of those things as far as who your influencers are, that's a big one. I mean, you talked about stepping into camp. I remember when we're dealing with standards, right, and that's the thing that I try and talk to my players about Standards, standards, standards Like what are your personal standards and where do they need to get to? Are they supporting what it is that you want to do?
Speaker 2:And sometimes you don't know, like you think your standards are super high, like you said, because you've never been exposed to what, you know rod brindamore does on a daily basis at 65, right, it's probably more than a lot of these 18 year olds are doing. Right, to think they're going to be pro hockey players, you know. So it's like when you see that in action and you get to go to these places where the best of the best are and watch how they operate on a daily basis. All of a sudden it's like your mind's blown, because it's like, well geez, I thought I was really putting in the work, but this isn't even I'm not even close Right. So, like, how do we level up before we need to level up or have already lost the opportunity to level up? You know what I mean. Like almost trying to get one step ahead of it.
Speaker 1:It's, it's hard and they're they're asking an awful lot at the age that they're asking. But that's what makes you elite, that mental toughness, the ability to make the right decisions. And you know, I think that you know, if I could get into the whole conversation, you know my mom and dad were really strict with me and that was that might've been the reason I finally got off the leash. But you know, I know that some parents, a lot of, they're trying to. You know it's a lot of split families now and so forth, and everybody's kind of trying to be the better mom or dad and sometimes that goes to spoiling them. And you know it's not.
Speaker 1:And I, you know, even with my own son, and he hasn't you know, he hasn't made it yet, he's in Colorado in the American league had a few games up. You, you had a few games up. You know I can just remember saying to him you know, the truth comes out, man, the truth comes out. So if you're not going to do something every day, you're going to make decisions. You know. So I always used to tell them write your script. It makes it a lot easier. You know, if you're going away on the weekend, write your. Write your script of the things you're not going to do. You know and what decisions you're going to make and live up to it. But sometimes you know, kids get on the spot and they make mistakes and and so forth but you know it comes at such a young age making good decisions.
Speaker 1:You know french fries or broccoli. You know what I mean. It sounds so trivial but you know it really is. And when you get kids thinking of, you know how do I get better all the time, and that's you know they have goals and so forth and they're willing to make those the right decisions. You know a lot. There can be a lot accomplished there, but I find that there's a lot of kids now that don't take the easy way out and it certainly makes it easy to separate the guys to look for the hard road and the one that's more progressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not about being perfect, like that's the thing, like mean you mentioned, like not living a perfect or making all the right choices. I sure know I never did too right and I don't. I don't think that that should be the expectation on these young players. Part of being young is like making a stupid decision so you can learn that it was a stupid decision, you know like, but how, how can we, how can we balance these kind of these opposite forces? Because I think it is unfair in this day and age, with the you know the social media aspect and like the way that everything can be magnified, that we're really putting these kids in a position where it's stressful for them, right, because any wrong little choice can become a bigger thing than it is. So I don't know, there's no perfect scenario there. We want to make the best choices we can.
Speaker 2:There's also an environment of being young and risk-taking and figuring out where you do lie. That, I think, is a natural part of the maturing process. But I think I mean, yeah, if you have your North Star, right, if you can have that North Star and whatever that is, if that's the NHL, if that's being paid to play hockey, if that's an NCAA scholarship and and you know, right To say what you just said there, like write your own script, like what are the, what are the things that I need to do to make this happen, what are the ways that I need to behave, you know, to make this happen, and and then just do the best you can with that right, like we're not expecting perfection, but I think if we are aligned and you know, and if we are thinking, um, that way, I think we're going to steer the ship a little straighter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember listening to an old Lou Holtz and he said you know, when you know that's what you want to do, win and it stands for what's important now. And he always said if you ask yourself that 20 times a day, it's pretty hard to make a mistake. You know everything you do. Should I go home, go my watch TikTok or do my homework? You know the right thing to do homework. You know your diet. You know eat well.
Speaker 1:You know write your script before and say, you know I'm not. You know write your script before and say, you know I'm not. You know I might go out saturday night but I'm not going out any other night, you know, and I'm going to hold myself to being in at a certain time. It's so much easier if you, if you already make that commitment, then then if you're already out somewhere and somebody's, you know, you think I better go home and you got 20 guys no, no, no, you know, or other people kind of dragging you. So I think that you know, I think there's a lot of value in parental supervision and, you know, teaching your kids right and that's a start there and then it's just a matter of whether they can carry on. But again, that's where sometimes these people come in that aren't act like your friends but they're really not. They have low standards, they just want to have fun and take the the low road. And there's there's unique to be able to stand up to that and make the hard decision yeah, no good for you.
Speaker 2:It's going to take another short break from the podcast to talk about the UMH 68 and what we are doing in Manitoba and Saskatchewan for that matter. So we joined events the 2012 event that was going to run in Alberta solo side by side with the Saskatchewan event for 2012 solo. I decided to move the Alberta players in with the Saskatchewan players. It just turned out that the timing of the early timing of the Alberta event, which was May 22nd, was just overlapped with too much spring hockey that players were already committed to previously to receiving their invitation. So I totally understand players not wanting to back out on their teams that they've already pre-committed to, players not wanting to back out on their teams that they've already pre-committed to, and we decided to shift the strategy and have Alberta join Saskatchewan. I wanted to make sure that the UMH 68 is what it's supposed to be, which is a collection of the best players available. And, yes, although we went outside the box of provincial only to combine provinces, that was way less of a concession than keeping the best players on the ice possible. So that's what we've done for Saskatchewan and Alberta in the 2012 component and we are looking for 2012 defensemen from those provinces. They seem to be elusive. We need solid, capable performers that are defensemen from Alberta and Saskatchewan, the goalies and the forwards. We have been able to fill up with very, very capable players. I'm super excited about the talent pool there, but we are looking for some defensemen. So if you know defensemen in that region they're 2012, that suit the bill and would like to apply through the watch list, by all means, please do. We are also doing something similar in Manitoba, so we are combining the Saskatchewan 2011s with the Manitoba 2011s to bring an amazing event to Brandon Manitoba. So, again, we just opened that up to Saskatchewan Saskatchewan 2011. So we are looking for you. Uh, it's been a little bit I wouldn't say difficult. Uh, maybe just a little bit later in the game that we've shifted the gears here, so we may need some help in you finding us as much as we find you. So if that is the case, if you are somebody from saskatchewan that's listening, either a coach or a manager or a player or a parent that has a 2012 playing high level hockey and would like to participate, by all means make your application on the watch list and we will reach out to you for that event in Brandon, manitoba. Everything is available at upmyhockeycom, as usual underneath the UMH 68 showcase, which is really exciting, and just another reminder that I want you guys to download this episode. Press pause and download the episode if you haven't already. That's my one request for uh, for the episodes coming up, is that we can get an accurate account of who is actually listening to the pod. Thanks again.
Speaker 2:Now let's get back to the conversation with Trevor Steinberg. I actually saw someone from Seattle the other day cracking on social media. They were interviewed on a podcast and I wish I remember who it was. But they talked about actually like the development sort of philosophy in Seattle, saying that when they draft somebody, they're actually like they're drafting that 18 year old to play games at 24. Like, that's the hope that you will be good enough in six years to play hockey games in the NHL and so like it takes the onus off of like how great your weekend was or wasn't.
Speaker 2:Right, trying to get into this long term, thinking about development and where you need to get to Now is a freaking lifetime for most players. Right, like that's. Like that's, that's incomprehensible length of time, because we want to be on the power play now and we want to be in the nhl tomorrow and you know I mean all these things that. Can you? Can you talk about that perspective a little bit like maybe from your perspective as a scout, like trying to project guys six years down the road, or even maybe from the player mindset of like, how do we just fall in love with the sport and the development process and how that can be beneficial?
Speaker 1:Well, I give I give, uh, you know, ron and everybody credit. You don't take a guy like Shane right. You know he struggled, you know's taken a couple years, but you know he's starting to really play. Well, he's starting. I think he's got 20 goals almost now. You know, you got to believe in the process, um, and I I think more and more teams are doing that, but that's certainly the staple of what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1:You know, I sometimes wonder, gee, why don't we call that guy up, you know, or something? And then I go okay, easy, stay in your lane, trev, like these guys are doing an unbelievable job. You know Jeff Tambolini and those guys, they really do Like. I've seen some of the. You know the feedback that they give us on the players and some of the players I haven't even met. You just track them in Coachella and it's incredible. Yeah, you're right, one bad weekend, it's acceptable. A good weekend is great, but it's staying with the big picture and that's what it is. It's that. Just don't look at it too closely. You're getting better. You've got to believe in the process and I think they're doing a great job developing quite a few players that's awesome, you must.
Speaker 2:You must develop some type of an attachment to the guys that you scout and then like, get drafted, you know. But then it is sort of a handing off process you've done your job, now it's up to the development team to see where they go. But uh, do you find yourself rooting for guys after you've drafted them and tracking them and seeing what they're up to?
Speaker 1:I'd be lying if I said I didn't. There's no question I mean I'll be. I'll be honest. It was my first year. I was iffy on a kid and and, uh, my mike dawson's one of my ex-players, that he's. He's been with seattle for a while now and he's been scouting for 20 years. He just said, you know, quit, quit thinking about it. You like this kid? I said, yes, I do, and he backed me and we took Jacob Melanson, number 63, for, uh, he's in Coachella, but you know, that kid has just buried his nose. He's a, you know, if you want to lay it out, he's a very physical player. You know he's out there to to put a herd on and, and you know, he scored 50 goals in the quebec league is last year. But he's, you know, more of a feared fourth line energy guy that's lethal out there. And he's from a small town, amherst, nova scotia. And yeah, I probably shed a tear when he got drafted and he played his first nhl game this year.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, you can't help but root for them for sure, yeah he's it's exciting and you know there's a pride factor there.
Speaker 1:You know I it's not like I was the only guy you know I sent my information back and you know that the crossover guys looked at him and they took a chance on him and you know I'm yeah, I feel awesome about it.
Speaker 2:That's cool, so maybe we should talk about that. I think people are probably interested and don't really know how it works. So you, you cover the Quebec major league. So you're an amateur scout, by the way everybody listening and so an amateur scout is somebody that scouts the junior players that are ready for the draft. There's also a whole pro scouting section for most teams that actually scout pro hockey and guys that are in pro hockey for whether they want to be free agent signings or whether there's going to be trades. The GM will look at the pro scouts reports and and who they want and who they want to target. So Trevor's doing the amateur side, which is like the 17 year olds, and he's covering the Quebec, the Quebec league. Now, in saying that, here's where my question comes how do you know what you're looking at is better, worse? The same as somebody in the WHL or the OHL or the USHL, and that's where the crossover guys come in, I believe. But can you maybe walk us through that process of working on?
Speaker 1:the.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've always kind of said I'll have no comparables. When you start putting your name to a player and I say this in my interviews I say, buddy, when you go to camp you're putting on a seattle crack and practice jersey, game, jersey, whatever, and I look great kid, I said I'll be honest, this might be selfish, arrogant. I don't think of you as doing that. I think my name is plastered all over your back. So when you go out there, are you going to answer the bell? Are you going to compete? Are you going to show up and not be in the bottom half of the testing? You know what I mean. Again, it's hard for a kid but you've got to go out of your way to live up to your billing and so forth, like that or what someone believes in you. So if that answers it a little bit, yeah, then I kind of forgot the rest of the question.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just saying so. You have your guys, which you take pride in, right? So when you put them on the table, then it goes to the crossover guys that are now going to validate your selections from the Quebec League. Who you think is draftable there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and my first year, other than say Mike Dawson, I wasn't about to go scream on the mountain and cause a disturbance about a guy, where now I'm a little bit more willing to. You know, during the years, when you see something you like in a player, I just immediately just make sure that they see that and I put them on my list. And you know, the kid can go up or down on my list anytime and so forth. But at the end of the day, yeah, I don't necessarily have comparables but they always say just rate what you see. You know crossover guys will figure that out along with your help.
Speaker 1:And you know, review game tape and come and see the players. And we have meetings every two weeks. You know I think it's incredible how often and how current we are with our list and so forth. So it's nice to work with again. You know kind of a demanding but I think very professional program and bunch of people to to keep up to date with that because it's easy to cancel meetings and move on. But you know I think they have them every week. But you know the I think they have them every week, but you know the North Americans have them every second week and they're very helpful.
Speaker 2:Is there a Seattle Kraken prototype player Like does the direction come down from Francis? As being like this is what we value as an organization. You know, per se I don't know, I mean offense per se, skating, perhaps compete Is there a list of what they want and prioritize, or is that up to you guys to prioritize what you feel is important?
Speaker 1:Good people. I know that there's. You know the core values really. You know we have to like the player, but you know there's a lot of players that have you know before and during their draft year that have taken.
Speaker 1:But you know there's a lot of players that have you know before and during in their draft year that have taken, you know, deserved criticism and these guys have to evaluate whether that's something that they want or not, despite how good the player is and, um, I do, I think they've done a really good job. When I hear of the comments now, they're made from, from, uh, from the kids that were drafted, you know, a few years ago even. They're just great kids, they work hard and you know, just a guy like a malanson, you know he's, I guess I knew because I knew where he's from and I knew his neighbors and I knew other people. So you know the homework was done that way. This guy's an incredible kid off the ice. He works with special needs kids, he's a good neighbor, he's a good kid at school. Short story here I was going past going to watch a game in Moncton and I always stopped at the big stop there because they have the turkey noodle soup and so forth, the Irving's, and I stopped and there was this kid that was just overly polite.
Speaker 1:You know, young, young kid. Probably looked like he was 18 or 19. And I just commented. I said man, you know, young, young kid probably looked like he was 18 or 19. And I just commented, I said man, you're breath of fresh air. And we got talking and he said, yeah, I'm putting myself through school here and so forth. And he mentioned he was golfing and I don't know how?
Speaker 1:but Jacob's name came up and I said are you serious?
Speaker 1:I said how good a golfer is he? And he goes. He hadn't played all winter, obviously, and he came in here and won the club championship and I kept asking you, do you know him? I said yeah. I said I'm part of the reason we drafted him. I scout for seattle and it was well the pressure for us there when this kid was saying this guy's awesome, he's the nicest kid ever. You'd never know, even play a sport. You know he's just a good guy, you know. So all of those things kind of combined, yeah, it's a.
Speaker 1:It's a it's a really interesting process through the whole whole bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah I love it. Well, and that's the thing I was talking about earlier at the beginning of our discussion is, like, when you were talking about mark, right, like that, there was a guy that, whatever he was doing, however, he showed up, you you were, the energy was there and you were rooting for him. Right, like you, you want to give people a reason to root for you, right, and I, and I think that that goes when you combine that personal aspect of it and, and especially in a locker room, and I mean, even, like you know, I brought up Bedard and again he's he's young, but like in the locker room, if we want to have a group of guys that are going to go fight for wins together, right, you want guys that are rooting for each other. Right, you guys want guys that are, like, supporting each other and that you have his back because you respect him and what he does.
Speaker 2:And I think, like, like, what a great thing that seattle is looking for is because when you do have an organization full of culture, guys like it's going to work out at some point, because those guys are going to get better too. Right, like, those guys get better, they, they reach their developmental ceiling quicker than somebody who's who's not wired that way. So I love hearing that from you. I think that's great. Um, it's a great message to the kids.
Speaker 1:I have a kind of a neat story. We uh late Ron LaPointe was our coach. He got brought in my second year in Fredericton and it was kind of funny because my two roommates we lived there was a lady that was an older lady that was going to go to Florida but she had to stay two weeks and so no big deal.
Speaker 1:But my two roommates so won't name them we all went out after the game, all of us that might've been the first time I came home early. I came home she was still awake, you know, and I was probably giggling a little bit and so forth, but we had a good chat and Ron was really hands-on, he helped us get these places and so forth. So the older lady that owned the house said boy that, that Trevor, he's got a character he likes, he likes going out. And I got to the rink the next day and Ron gone, I slipped and fell into a net. He goes.
Speaker 1:Well, if you weren't out drinking all night, you know, you wouldn't have been like that. And what the hell's? He all over me, it just, and then it just sparked, he just, it was like he hated me and I work and I was doing everything I could do and so forth like that. I remember when you know, during this whole time here, he, we were in Adirondack and I was in riding the bike before practice and he came in, well, everybody else had gone out that night I'm sitting here riding the bike and I and he came in. Well, everybody else had gone out that night. I'm sitting here riding the bike and I'd taken a bad penalty the night before, a player came at me I can't remember his name and I put my stick up immediately and okay, I got, you know, cross-checking and so forth, and then we ended up getting in a fight and so far I got the extra two. They scored, I don't think any harm was done in the game.
Speaker 1:But that morning I got in there and ron started just giving it to me again, like I just want. At one point I said ron, I don't know what else I can do. I said I'm fighting every game. I'm killing myself here. I said I know I'm not getting called up, but I'm doing my best to get in the lineup here. And he goes you're damn right, you're not going to get called up, he said. I think he said the plane would have to go down before you got called up.
Speaker 1:He sends me one-on-one like angry and we got back, uh, to frederickton and two like two weeks later, uh, andre for Savard got fired. Ron, the point went up. And two weeks later he called me up. Yeah, so I don't know what he was doing Now. His, his, his wife actually said that he was, you, were one of his favorite guys, and I said, well, you have a hell of a way of displaying it.
Speaker 1:But I think, you know, I I don't know if he just saw something or just said, you know, if I got to treat this guy like this to keep him working hard, I don't know. But he, you know, he put me through all of that. And then, you know, I was basically his first call up and it was kind of crazy. And the next year I actually played the full year in quebec. But yeah, that'll tell you a little bit about what was going through my head. You know, sometimes I was probably a little bit aggressive as a coach. But you know, when I look at what coaches, when coaches got things from me, it was usually out of aggression, you know, and hostility, that kind of worked. So I apologize to my 23 years of players if that was the wrong route to go.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the beauty I think you know, like some guys do respond to it and some guys don't, I guess, Right, and it's like in this day and age, as a coach, it is trying to manage those different personalities and how do we get the best out of them. Right, and it's probably not a one brush for everybody approach, but yeah, but I think the amazing message there is, like you just really never know, you can assume you know as a player, right, like there he is telling you the plane has to go down before you're going to get called up and then all of a sudden he's calling you up when he has the job. It's like crazy, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:All you can do is put your best foot forward every day. And that sounds really easy. It's not, it's not. And that sounds really easy. It's not, it's not. You know you've got to go in there and be a good teammate. You've got to go in there. You know you feel you should support your teammates when they're having a tough time, when they're out of the lineup. And you're in the lineup. You know it's really hard to go in and get the full scope of what it is to be a good teammate.
Speaker 1:And later in my career I started realizing all this. I started realizing all this and once you start realizing it, it's incredible how much you take in. You know you look around the dressing room and you can say those two guys they're on suicide watch, they're so upset, you know, and different things about other guys. So yeah, you've got to press different buttons with guys and you know that's why there are some great coaches out there that have success is because they just know how to handle the superstars and the the other guys. Because you never know again. Mental, you know mental health or whether it's you know.
Speaker 1:I'm not suggesting guys in there having, you know, mental health problems, but I think everybody does, in a certain way, have things that just don't bring the best out of them and certain things that do yeah, I agree, I call it when I'm working with players.
Speaker 2:I call like mental fitness is the term that I've used right, it's like to try and give yourself the best opportunity to have the best mental health, right? So, like what is your approach to adversity? What is your natural reaction? What is your belief system? What is your day to day habits? Look like you know these types of questions I'll ask to produce, hopefully, a more resilient person that is more better equipped to handle what's going to come at you.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean in a pro hockey environment or in life for that matter, there's no perfect solution and it's a very imperfect science, but it is something that I strongly believe in is that the more well-equipped we are, the more we're able to handle. Now, that doesn't mean it's you know it's a you know it's a win lose scenario, right, like everyone's going to have their moments where you know, where they need some time or they need some additional help. You actually mentioned before the call that there was a period of time in your career where you had to step up, step away for a little bit to to get some support. Can you walk us through what that was, what that time was like for you and what you were going through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was just a combination of. You know, I just put so much hope I was going to say so much effort and things into winning, but you know you can't be into. Probably you've got to be in for the wins, but there's got to be a balance. You know I can remember. You know, even if I was 5-0, I'd be scared. Oh god, we're gonna go on a losing streak if we lost one. You know, if we're oh and five, well, oh god, you know I'm, I don't even want to face the public and you know I'm, I'm a failure type thing.
Speaker 1:And so when you're back and forth between all of that, you know you're trying to to manage all these guys and sometimes you say you know you don't know if you're doing it right, I I can't really tell you, but I remember just waking up and I just god, I just my stomach was felt like it rotted right out. And then I was looking in the mirror on everything. I was blaming myself for everything. You know, at least I wasn't blaming others. I was looking to say what's wrong with me. Um, I needed the time off, but you know, at least I wasn't blaming others. I was looking to say what's wrong with me? I needed the time off, but you know it was probably different. There's a guy named came with us with St Mary's, named Ronna Barbanel, and he's the chaplain at the school and you know he was able to kind of, you know, tear the layers off.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. You wake up, you know. You used to wake up with anxiety, wonder why you had it, and then I, you know, I used to peel it back Like, you know, this is good, this is good, this is good, this is good. And then you realize, okay, well, what am I stressed out about?
Speaker 1:But you know, I guess, since I've started scouting, and certainly after I took that time off and it was kind of funny because the best year I, the most enjoyable year I had, was my last year. We went to the nationals, we hosted and we won our first game and then covid canceled the tournament. And it was kind of funny because I said I, you know, I think I knew it was my last year most of the year, so I didn't have the worries and I think I was able to be a better person and a better coach to the guys were the year before and in the past I was, you know, pedal on the gas the whole time. You know you being very aggressive to get guys to do things, and I can remember one of my one of my players actually moved down the road from me, mark Trickett.
Speaker 1:We get a giggle at it because he's probably my best, one of my best friends now. But you know I remember talking to him and he said holy geez man, you know you blew up that room a couple of times, wow, you know. And he said, but you apologize. And I said I just remember so many times driving home after a game win or lose, man, I was like sure I gotta call that guy. Call the guy and say look, I'm really sorry, I apologize to you in front of the team tomorrow. You know I think they were probably hating my guts in the car, but it's amazing what just reopening those communication lines will do and letting the guy know look that little mistake didn't lose us the game.
Speaker 1:You know, I just needed something at the moment to pin it on. You were my target. You know what I mean and you know, and I try to tell that to my own son too. Don't always, you know, don't always think your coaches mean everything they say. You know what I mean. These guys are in it. There's pressure on them too. But yeah, that's that. Last year was probably most enjoyable. It was probably because I was so much more dialed down all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. Uh, well, you've been an awesome. You've been an awesome guest. I really appreciate coming on today. Is there any last words of advice or wisdom you want to give to the uh, you know, this draft class or others to come uh to, to be able to put their best foot forward for you if they get the opportunity?
Speaker 1:Well, I would just say set your goals and make good decisions. You've got to want those goals and you've got to really say no to things that are pretty attractive in life to get to your goals. And even that's not going to necessarily get you there, but that's what's. That's what it takes to get there. And I guess the other side of it I guess is, if you work that hard to get to the NHL and you never do make it but you really pour your heart and soul into it in every way, you're going to live a good life because you're. You've got standards, morals and work ethic, tenacity and you know you're probably good at being a good team guy.
Speaker 1:So that's what I say to my guys you know the silver bullet, your silver lining here, guys, you may not make it to the NHL, but the work habits and stuff, and I've got guys that were crushed that they never got a chance to play, but now they're making a hell of a lot more money than I am, have two or three kids, they're living a great life. So all of this is not for nothing. You know you're bettering yourself by having these high-end goals and don't consider it a failure. Can consider it kind of a lesson. Yeah, you know, there's more to life than a hockey team I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that there's uh, did I say that yeah, I know even though, even though it is, it is kind of both our lives.
Speaker 2:Still, it's just like. I totally get what you're saying, though, and obviously that's hard for a 15 year old or a 16 year old or a 17 year old to to fathom. They're not thinking about what life is like at 35, but the truth is so accurate in what you just said there, because everything about being a high performer takes traits and standards that a lot of people don't have, right and and learning what that is like. That just becomes a part of who you are, so it transfers into whatever else it is, and there's nothing to be disappointed about giving your best effort at something ever Right, like that's a habit too, too. I think I totally think that's a habit, like, if you approach things on a day-to-day basis, that this is going to get my best effort and my best intention whether it be your relationship, whether it be making breakfast, whether it be your workout right. That's going to translate and somebody's going to appreciate that, and you're going to provide value somewhere 100 and that's why you know it's just investing in yourself.
Speaker 1:And you know I could have cursed hockey. You know when I come up with every reason why. But you know I ended up after I played I coached. After I coached I got to scout. Hockey's been probably better for me than I have been yet, but I'm I'm pretty appreciative of the people that I've met in it.
Speaker 2:And again, you know, you hear a lot of crap out there about players.
Speaker 1:But you know there's this very thick lining of positivity in hockey players that I think people don't see. They just want to bring up the bad stuff. But my son's playing hockey right now. My daughter was in volleyball and you know any sport. I'm a huge fan of just the, the way you have to conduct yourself and the process of winning and losing and adjusting to it and being able to accept it. You know I'm I'm a big fan of sport, but certainly hockey I love it.
Speaker 2:Well, trevor, thanks so much for for being with us today. Um, like I said, you're a great guest and continue doing what you're doing. I know, I know you're pouring your heart and soul into the Kraken and to hockey. I think that your presence here today has helped grow that passion for others. Much appreciative.
Speaker 1:Jason, it's been a pleasure man. It really has been Keep Alex under wraps there, eh.
Speaker 2:Will do. Thank you for being here till the end. Again, apologies for the delay in a new episode. I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Trevor. If you haven't already, please download the episode and continue to download the episode. Just put them. I think you can subscribe to them and they will download automatically. When they come out, I will share the details with you of how much the numbers increase and, yeah, that'll be exciting. It's a great way to support the podcast without having to pay any money, without having to do anything at all other than press a button. I thank you for it and, yeah, I will share the analytics to come. Until next time, play hard and keep your head up.