Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
Clark Wilm's Transition from Player to Coach
Clark Wilm's journey from a small farming community in Saskatchewan to becoming an NHL player is a testament to resilience, hard work, and adaptability. He shares insights on player development, the importance of mental toughness, and the evolution of youth hockey systems, encouraging young athletes to find their unique identity and value on the ice.
• Journey from minor hockey to NHL through hard work and determination
• Importance of adapting playstyle for success in NHL
• Influence of coaching in developing skills and mindset
• Insights on the competitive landscape of youth hockey
• The need for players to understand their identity and value in teams
So I look to guys like Brian Scrutland and Mike Keane and the way they played the game as to a way I could get myself out of the AHL and into the NHL. By competing hard defensively, being a good penalty killer, winning face-offs, just being reliable in all areas of the game. And you know, I knew I wasn't going to score 40, 50 goals in pro, so I had to adapt and find a way to move myself up to the next level. And it was from watching guys that you know cup winners that you know, and Mike Keane and Brian Scrutland that helped me kind of mold my game around the way they played so I could move up.
Speaker 2:That was Clark Wilm, nhl veteran of 455 games played, and you are listening to the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. Welcome to Up my Hockey with Jason Padolan, where we deconstruct the NHL journey, discuss what it takes to make it and have a few laughs along the way. I'm your host, jason Padolan, a 31st overall draft pick who played 41 NHL games but thought he was destined for a thousand. Learn from my story and those of my guests. This is a hockey podcast about reaching your potential. Hey there, welcome back, or welcome to the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. I am your host, jason Padolan, and we are here to talk to Clark Wilm today.
Speaker 2:Clark Wilm is a 1976 born, just like your host former NHL player from Central Butte, saskatchewan. He was a sixth rounder to the Calgary Flames, 150th overall in the 1995 entry draft, and he was a former Saskatoon Blade, played four years with the Blades, was part of a 1995-96 Saskatoon Blades line that included Mark Dial and Frank Bannum. Mark Dial, frank Bannum and Clark Wilm was one of the most productive lines ever put together in WHL history Clark with 49 goals himself that year, frankie Bannum had 83, and I think Mark Dial had over 50, maybe 60. And they were, they were lethal together. They all, they all filled a piece of of the puzzle there Clark. Clark was the guy that would go to the net, as as we, as we talk about, and get the, get the puck out of the corners and maybe fight from time to time. And Mark Dyle was the playmaking center that had the, had the puck on his stick most of the time and would find either Clark or Frankie, and Frankie was the speedster and the guy that had the wicked release and the great shot and combined they put the puck in the net a lot. So we talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Clark also went on to play with St John's Flames, which was the AHL affiliate for the Calgary Flames Played there for two years before getting the call to the NHL, where he stuck for five straight seasons, essentially Ended up playing with the Calgary Flames, nashville Predators and Toronto Maple Leafs Went overseas to Jokret in Helsinki, finland, and then to the DEL in Germany. In our conversation we don't get to his time overseas, as we focus mostly on his journey into the NHL and then also just about where he's at today with his boys as a hockey coach and the development aspect of players and where he sees some advantages and disadvantages, as well as the advantages of being on the farm and growing up on the farm. It's crazy which I touch on here in the discussion about the percentage of players that go to the NHL that are from Saskatchewan, canada, a province of a million people that just keeps producing NHL talent at a per capita rate that nobody touches. It's pretty impressive, and so Clark helped those numbers and, yeah, it was awesome to get to talk to him.
Speaker 2:We actually connected because of his son, who is 2012 in Saskatchewan, who's a heck of a good player, and I invited him to my UMH 68 Invitational it's going to be in Martinsville there, and so we had an opportunity to connect and I said, hey, it would be great to get you on the pod and he said, yeah, let's do it. So, anyways, that's how it goes sometimes. You know, we serendipitous moments, Hopefully, I think it sounds like they're going to be coming to the UMH 68, which is fantastic, and it was great for me to connect with Clark because we had not so many battles in the WHL necessarily because they were in the other division, but we definitely ran into each other a few times when he was playing with St John's and I was with the Baby Leafs. So, yeah, we'll leave it at that. Let's get into the conversation with Clark Wilm, all right? Well, alan, welcome to the program. All the way from Saskatchewan, what?
Speaker 1:part of the world are you in right now? Actually, right now, I'm actually at work here. I work in Davidson for John Deere egg company called Western Sales. I've been doing that eight or nine years now In Davidson. In Davidson, yeah, I live up in saskatoon though so all right well from saskatoon at davidson, saskatchewan. Welcome to the program clark wilm thanks for having me uh excited to be on great to see you, man.
Speaker 2:Um, I saw from your db central butte, saskatchewan. I can't say I know where that is or how big that is. Is that a fairly small place?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a small farming community, so it's a couple hours south of Saskatoon. So I grew up on a farm there and parents still live there, brothers still farm, so it's, yeah, four or 500 people live there, just a small farming community in Saskatchewan, so there's lots of them. That's fantastic. Is that where you played your minor? I did yeah, so, uh, well, we're the same age, so I played minor hockey there right up till I was uh in bantam, and then I I left to saskatoon to play triple a, but other than that I just played in the small town.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Are you the only NHL alumni from Central Butte?
Speaker 1:Believe it or not, growing up, there was. Mark Smith was a year younger than me, so he San Jose Calgary, played quite a bit, so there was actually two of us that came out of there that played together as kids.
Speaker 2:That's fantastic. It never ceases to am be amazing when I see the stats on that. Like saskatchewan itself, you know, as the population of saskatchewan like about a million people if I, if I'm not mistaken and, uh, the percentage of hockey players that come out of there to go on to play pro is astounding yeah, I think it probably has a lot to do with just the availability in small towns to to be on the ice all the time the rinks are open.
Speaker 1:So if you're a young kid that loves hockey, you can be on the ice as much as you want. So it's pretty cool that we've got so many hockey players coming to Saskatchewan for how small it is. But, yeah, guys, a lot of the time it's minus 40 here too. So you want to be inside on the ice, not outside freezing.
Speaker 2:Right. Do you see any other correlation? I mean you mentioned you grew up in a small farming community on a farm you know from Ramas City, slickers out West. It's like you know that farm boy strength or farm boy mentality. Do you think that that correlates as well, like something to?
Speaker 1:do with the mindset of the progress that the players make there. A hundred percent, I think. Just for myself growing up on a farm, you're asked to work at a young age, so you you learn a solid work ethic and and you know you work until the job's done. So I think that has a lot to do with the way guys grow up in hockey. I think there's no secret that guys from Saskatchewan are usually pretty tough and compete hard and are hard-nosed players for the most part, and I think that has a lot to do with just the way kids are brought up here, that you're expected to help out on the farm if you're a farm boy, and that's just the way it is growing up.
Speaker 2:Does that still hold true? Do you feel in like 2025?
Speaker 1:I think so. Yeah, I think, obviously, in small towns hockey, you got to leave a little bit earlier, so kids are probably taking off in U13. But yeah, the kids that grow up in small towns and on on farming, uh, on farms they're expected to work and they're expected to help out and and you learn that, uh, you learn that work ethic at a young age.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that, since we're on it, you talk about leaving. I I I'm drawn to the, to the saskatchewan model, just because we you know, with what I do and I have a ton of conversations and you know, with the csshl and uh, you knowSHL and AAA here and the different programs, there's a million options and all of them are very, very expensive here in the West. When it comes to the Saskatchewan model, you've gone with the AA route. I think you can slap whatever number of A's you want on that, but your top players play at this AA level. Now I guess if you said AAA, maybe the draw zone would widen a little bit, so maybe there'd be less AA teams would maybe be the only difference. But that model seems to go really well and Saskatchewan seems to have just adopted it and we're not worried about private leagues. We're not worried about private leagues, we're not worried about csshl, uh teams. Like, how is the mindset of saskatchewan maybe different from outside of that province?
Speaker 1:uh, yeah, that's a good question. I think we're very fortunate that, uh, that we have stuck to our, our minor hockey system here and and the leagues are very competitive when our we call it whatever u15 double a or u13 double a, like when we play teams from out of province, for the most part, we're very competitive. So, um, and I would say our u18 triple a league is is one of the best ones in western canada. We're we're fortunate that we get, uh, the majority of our players from Saskatchewan stay in and play in our leagues here. So we do have some that obviously go to academies, but the majority of our players choose to stay and play in the Saskatchewan League.
Speaker 1:So we're fortunate that way that we can have very competitive leagues and keep most of our kids here.
Speaker 2:So you mentioned you have your oldest is how old he is 16. 16. Okay, and that was an 08, you said right, 08, yeah. So an 08 born playing U18. Your youngest is a 2012. You've been obviously involved in all three of them. What is Saskatchewan doing right there? Do you think, like, why is it competitive? Why do people stay? Maybe we can start with the price? Like, if you don't mind sharing? Like, what does it cost to play u18, double a or triple a hockey there in saskatchewan?
Speaker 1:uh, yeah, u18 triple a. You're probably around that 10 grand. So it's it's uh, you know, very reasonable for the amount of ice time and the amount of uh, you know the way programs are run. So, um, I I think for the most part in uh in the u18, like we've got a very good league here and it's uh, it shows once, once we go out and and we play outside of our province, that our top teams are very competitive and have a good chance to win. So I think that helps to keep kids around too, that they know that if they are playing in the U18 AAA League it's a very competitive league and it produces a lot of very good hockey players, and so that is like you having paid coaches at U18 level right.
Speaker 1:all the programs have paid coaches yeah, I'm not 100 sure on that. I'm sure there's there's something, but it's not. I don't. I don't know any of those details like that right travels included though in that.
Speaker 2:10 000 like the kids go on a bus to out of town games.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they bus everywhere, so it it's a yeah bus and hotels and stuff, so it's very reasonable. We're super lucky in Saskatchewan to have have the availability yeah.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, like and just for perspective, right. So like our draw area here is in Kelowna, so I mean, whatever it's, it's a drive, you know, and uh, and the good practice times, I think like they practice four times a week or whatever, and travel is included in in the program. But you're looking more at like twenty thousand dollars for, for, like, that's essentially u15, u17 or u18 is all around that, that number, so like twice as much, and I mean I'm not into the budget line, like I I can't speak to where the money's going, but it does, I mean, with me I have three, right, if they're all playing triple a, uh, that's 20, that's 60 000, right, like that's. That's not, that's not inexpensive. So it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2:I do like that model because I have heard that you guys are doing it right there and and one of the big reasons why people stick around. So that's awesome. Uh, let's shift gears, though. I want to talk about that game last night a little bit before. I assume you watched it Canada-US, oh yeah, for sure Loved it what did you think I thought it was a great game.
Speaker 1:Like the intensity was there. The building would have been electric. I can't imagine those guys skating out goosebumps all over and just it was great to see all those super high-end, skilled players competing as hard as they did like get. Uh, I'm excited for the olympics next year.
Speaker 2:That's going to be awesome what do you think that says about our sport? You know, just in general, like the fact that I'll maybe preface, like the idea here, it was essentially an exhibition, right, it was a made-up tournament, like the four nations, the trophy they held up. Nobody'd ever seen it before. You know what I mean. So obviously, like the event wasn't really anything, but obviously what, what brought out and what was on the line did mean something to these millionaire hockey players, right, like I. I think that I think that's a real statement to who is playing our game. What, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I, I think the players that were in it did an unreal job. Um, I didn't know what to expect, but obviously there's a lot of uh. You look at those four nations and sweden and finland are our rival nations, and obviously canada and us so like there's a lot of pride in all those countries and when you had those four teams there, you knew everybody wants to win. Like it doesn't matter if it's, if it's in February, and it's kind of a made up trophy, like you said. Like you're playing Canada, us, canada wants to win and so does US. So there's bragging rights there and and it was it was a lot of fun to watch how hard those guys competed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it totally was what really impressed me at the end of the day. Like I thought that, like the final game last night, the first 10 minutes I was like so ecstatically fast that it was almost too fast for how skilled those guys even are. You know like it was. It was so fast like everyone was doing everything at a hundred percent game settled in a little bit. But I was just impressed with the defending, you know, like the defending of even like the forwards and the d that are all you know those are all top end offensive d-men in the nhl. Like they everyone was above pucks taking away time and space. Like I just thought it was incredibly well defended, which I didn't really necessarily expect no, I mean either really.
Speaker 1:But yeah, there was times where you've got connor mcdavid coming with the puck and dumping it in like how much do you see that so you could? You could tell like there was nobody wanted to be that guy that turned that puck over to have an odd man rush the other way. So those guys defensively, you know, were working as hard as they could and putting pucks in a position where they weren't gonna have an opportunity for an odd man rush coming back the other way. So when you see guys like that coming up to the blue line and having nothing and putting the puck in and going to get it, it just tells you how much the defensive side of the game in big games really matters.
Speaker 2:What was your takeaway from the first time? They played in the three scraps in nine seconds. How did that make you feel?
Speaker 1:I couldn't see it live, but I know my older boy was texting me and just saying this atmosphere is electric. So unfortunately I didn't see it live. But I'm not surprised. The Kach Boyce wanted to get things started early and that just set the tone for the tournament, in my opinion, that you know what? We're not here for funsies, we're here to win and we're here to make a statement. So it was awesome to see in my opinion.
Speaker 2:I mean that was a total statement and the thing is, the only thing, being a Canadian and having, and you know, having worn the Canadian jersey, like I love the way like what a fight.
Speaker 2:Hegel and Tuchok the first one was off the charts, but they were all. Three of them were really inspired by the US players which, like you know, that wouldn't have happened 20 years ago. That would have been Canada, you mean, initiating, right, maybe US reciprocating, uh. But I just thought that was interesting, like even that mentality, that mind shift. I always thought that we kind of had that little bit of that advantage from the, from the grit side of things, you know, in our approach to the game and I was just like wow, like blue is coming at red right now and we're having to say yes to them, uh, but I mean, either way, I mean it was an awesome start and obviously both guys, both teams, were up for it oh, exactly, and I think the, the kachuk boys are kind of unicorns right now, so it's not not surprising to see the way they play to to want to get things started off that way.
Speaker 1:And you know, the the teams were built a little bit differently but uh, you know, hagel and and uh, bennett and barenko, they were game. They said, all right, let's go. So it was, uh, they stepped up and it was. It was awesome to see brady was hard to handle.
Speaker 2:Hey, for us, boy, like for he was, he was a moose. That guy is, uh, is a, is a big body and hard to handle. In those scenarios I thought he, he really. I mean, he's not the fastest guy, obviously, but boy was he effective, right, like he figured out how to play it at that pace. And you're right, those guys are unicorns and maybe that's a good shift to you, clarkie, and your career. Not that you were a unicorn at the time, but you mean a smaller guy that played super hard and had enough skill to put the puck in the net too. Uh, I think that you probably really relate to those guys. You know and and and the style, and and. To see that at that level, that there's still a place for some of that in the game, uh, probably made you smile a little bit, I assume oh for sure, I think, yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:There's still uh, that's uh a lot of the fighting's out of the game, which rightly so. But there is definitely a place for guys that go to the net hard and want to score in those hard areas. I think, you know, youth hockey-wise we spend a lot of time on skills work, and rightly so. But I think those kids that go hard to the paint and and want to battle and finish their checks hard, I think they're still very sought after for teams because it's, you know, brady, him for checking and just crushing D-men that makes the D-men doesn't matter who you are, how skilled you are. If you got a guy coming on you hard to finish your check hard, you're moving the puck quicker. So it's uh, you know, I think there's still a huge part of that in the game and you can, you can see what the panthers last year winning the cup like. They're just a hard team to play against. So, um, yeah, I don't know if it's ever really left, but I think now they're.
Speaker 2:It's kind of coming back where they're looking for guys that will do that yeah, yeah, I agree, and I do think I mean, I don't know from my perspective I think they are a bit harder to find potentially, you know, which I think is a good thing for the players that want to do it, and I also think it's a good thing for what I do and like talking to players about the choices and the development they can make within their own game. Right, Like, go to that far post, you know, hang out around the blue paint, finish your checks, like it seems like some are less willing to do that than maybe that they were, uh, prior, and it's what it's a great way to be able to, you know, differentiate yourself from the crowd in this day and age. Yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:It's tough to do. You go to the front of the net. You're gonna get hit with a puck. You're probably gonna get cross-checked. It's not. It's not an easy place to play, but that's where the goals are scored. You look at the goals last night Like they're kind of right in front of that net. For the most part and I think probably some of that has to do with you know social media. All these kids are watching short clips of guys dangling guys and going end to end. There's not very many clips on social media of some guy crashing the net and banging in a rebound. So I think a lot of you know TikTok and whatever else that for the most part kids pay attention to. They're on that lot. For the most part kids, kids pay attention to, they're on that lot. So it's it's uh caters to the more skilled toe drags and and dangling end to end, which you know happens during games, but not a whole heck of a lot yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:How does that affect you and your coaching style? Because you said you were u13, uh, head coach uh of your, of your younger boy, and you know that is. I think it is a little bit of a I don't know a disease let's call it right, because they are, they're growing up in the highlight world you know whether it's Sportsnet or whether it's TSN or whether it's their social media devices of what you just said there. They're watching these short form things of these guys doing amazing individual efforts. Yet we both know, in a team environment, efforts uh, yet, and we both know, in a team environment it's it's much better to use people, it's much better to have the puck move right, move quickly, and especially as you move up, uh, in in the age levels, that that becomes a much more, uh you know, desired or actually necessary skill set. How do you handle that? Maybe like what their perception of success is and what you think the team perception of success is?
Speaker 1:uh, I try to get kids to watch, watch games and you know, pay attention to yeah, it's, it's awesome to watch Connor McDavid dangle end to end but you know, pay attention to that guy that's on the on the third line, that's that's making the good hard plays on the wall like that. And you know, for checking hard and doing the little things that aren't as flashy Cause I think that's a huge part of the game which you know, like I said last last night, you look at all those guys with how skilled they were they defaulted back to. You know we're going to, we're going to play a grinding game and and put bucks in and go get it. Not that, not that, that's the only way to play. But I think it's important for kids to watch full games and pay attention to not only the top guys playing but those guys on the second, third and fourth line and just see what they do to be successful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to stay in the league for sure. Yeah, the exit. I thought the exits were amazing last night. I mean how rarely they weren't screwed up, for lack of a better word Like there was one in the first period. I remember Marner made a missed pass on the wall and it was like a big time scoring chance for US, like 10 minutes in, and then I was, as a former winger, I was just watching the board play there and I mean under immense amounts of pressure, right, like what to do with it, when to chip it, do you find the triangle and put an area past your center, or do you go cross ice with it? If you have time, like it was this, those things can be very underappreciated at a younger level. And then you, you, you go at that stage there. You know in those moments and those are high skill plays that you wouldn't necessarily qualify a skill play.
Speaker 1:you know from what you see on tiktok, let's say, no, exactly, and that's, that's a huge portion of the and where the game is played is those little plays along the wall and little passes, like you said, and I think it's very important for kids to watch that in games and try to recognize what guys are doing with the puck when they get it along the wall, in the middle of the ice, where they're placing pucks, and just the, the details of the game that aren't, like you said, aren't maybe they're not being skilled plays, but they are, they're. They're a huge portion of the game and and the difference between winning and losing how about you?
Speaker 2:so you mean, played four years in saskatoon. Uh, successful years too. You mean, you're on, you're on one of the most dynamic lines. Uh, it's funny now that I have you on, I've had the whole trio on, so frank's been on and and diesel's been on and uh, anyways, and now yourself, I mean that line was, you know, was really kind of a, an epic type of a line that that year and for all of, for all of uh, whl history I don't have the stats in front of me, maybe you would remember, but I think frankie had like over 70 goals and some like 160 points, and mark dale had around the same amount and and yourself had 110 and one away from 50. Um, pretty wild, pretty wild experience there. Maybe speak to your. You know your journey through the whl and your development as a player and getting into that fourth season where you had such a career year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I was probably a little naive, like back in the early 90s when we started there wasn't. I actually didn't even know about the WHL draft at the time. So you know, I just knew I wanted to play hockey and you know I was a big Moose Jaw Warriors fan back in the day. And then I was fortunate to get drafted by the blades and, uh, remember talking to the gm, daryl lubinicki, he came down and said we'd like you to come play for the, the triple a blazers, next year. So, yeah, I said perfect. You really had no clue what that was at the time, like I didn't know what triple hockey, triple a hockey was. So, um, and then, pretty fortunate too, you as a young kid moving away from home, you meet some lifelong buddies like Rhett Warner you know him and Chad Allen, and you know we kind of came up together the whole time there. So you, you meet great guys along the way that make, make everything easier. So it's, you know we have great relationships to this day.
Speaker 1:So, um, but yeah, like we came there, I moved to Saskatoon and went to a school that had 12 or 1300 people in it. So I was just a culture shock. I came from a town of 500 and all of a sudden you're in a school that's got three times as many people. So it was uh, it was an adjustment to, to say the least, but uh, again, I was lucky my brother, my older brother, moved up uh at the same time, so so that obviously helped. You had some familiarity there with uh, with home and everything and yeah, and my parents.
Speaker 1:Being an hour and a half south of the city, it's easy to come and watch hockey, which back then you don't maybe realize how nice that is to play so close to home. But looking back now, I was lucky to be not far from home to play my whole junior career, so we had a great team in AAA. We actually won the league here. And then again, moving on to the Blades, with the year before I played, they lost to Kamloops in game seven. So it was a great organization and a great time to be a Blade and move in. I played as a 16-year-old and, as you know, the WHL as a 16-year-old can be tough at times. Back then there was some scary players playing that you had to be very aware of who was on the ice and what was going on. So I think that kind of definitely helped out as I moved along in my career. Just the spatial awareness of what is who's on the ice and how to make plays.
Speaker 1:And then, yeah we were. We had a great team and I think for three of my four years it was pretty much the same guys. We had the same core of 10, 11, 12 guys on the team. So you know, it was a special time to be a Blade and obviously winning helps too.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so it was you, chad, and Warren Zia right, warner, that were the 16-year-olds there when you were 16? Yeah, and then?
Speaker 1:Frankie was a 17-year-old and then the next year Dyle came in. So yeah, to touch on Frankie and Mark. I was lucky enough to play the majority of my time in Saskatoon with Frank and just an amazing player. Last year he had 83 goals. And just an amazing player. Last year he had 83 goals and just scoring at will. To be able to watch a guy like that and the way he shoots the puck and then mark, the way he carried the puck and set plays up, was awesome to be part of.
Speaker 2:One of the things I like to talk about and and I think that is super important for players is figuring out I mean, I guess player identity is the way it gets described most of the time, right, like who you are, what you're good at, how to be valuable to the team and then, if you want to make it even more of a microcosm, how do you be valuable to your line? I think guys struggle with that, you know. I mean recognizing what their strengths are, maybe what their weaknesses are and how to how to provide value on a consistent basis. Uh, can you speak to maybe that line? And and what your piece of the puzzle was with that to help make those guys successful and also the success you had, and and and maybe some thoughts about player identity in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. Just on that line, I was there to go get the puck and crash the net and be physical and open up space for those guys and just getting in hard on the forecheck, crashing and banging and battling in front of the net, was kind of what? Uh, what I was there for. And you know you get, you get uh in that position and you move the puck to to highly skilled guys and get open, they'll find you. So you're gonna have success along the way in that and it's uh, I think every I I think as far as like long line combinations, it's. You know we had a passer, a shooter, and we had a guy that would go get the puck and give it to him. So I think you know you kind of have everything you need there to be successful.
Speaker 2:So so did you? Did you have any? Were you told to do that, meaning like that style of play, like did, or is that just like in you? You felt that that was, you knew, that's where you were valuable and that's what you felt very comfortable doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I knew that was my game like to be physical and, you know, get in the odd fight every now and then and create some space. That was just the game that I was comfortable with and I found when I played that way I had the most success. It, you know, I it was, uh, I knew I wasn't gonna going to dangle my way to to the next level or or, or, uh, you know, toe drag my way to the next level. I had to compete and I had to find a way to earn more ice time through the way I competed on the ice, the way I battled in front of the net and, just, you know, sticking up for teammates when I needed yeah that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Of the 49 that year I'm not asking you to recall all of them, but were you. You know you're speaking about guys willing to go to the crease and guys willing to go to the hard areas Were a lot of your goals, kind of Hyman style, like around that blue paint area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually we had our year-end banquet and our video guy was putting clips together. He goes I couldn't find a goal that you scored outside of 10 feet from the net. He said everything was just right in front of the net. So, yeah, that's probably probably right. Maybe I shot an empty netter in, but I knew that's where, that's where I had to go to be successful. So, um, I went there and, and you know, found pucks and and banged him in from a short distance, but it's probably an end to end in there somewhere. But he just couldn't find it but you know what, though?
Speaker 2:but, like god, isn't there a lesson there? Like that's. The thing is, like they all count the same like and those are awesome goals, right, it's like, but someone's got to be willing to go there and go find them. You know, and especially, I mean, I guess you were in a bit of a special scenario with with diesel and with bantam there, because there was going to be a lot pucks lying around that area. Right, you knew that it was going to go there, but but still, I mean, someone's got to want to be willing to and and uh, and I think that hyman is such a great example of that and he's not having the year he had, you know, last year, but he's still having a good year, really solid year, and I think his game, like is, is replicable, let's say it.
Speaker 2:You know, like, not everybody can, like I usually said, be Connor McDavid and fly down the wing at mock eight and toe drag everybody. But you know, I mean players can choose to go to the net and to find the angle of their stick and to get body position on defensemen, and and so on and so forth. Right, I think that that area of the game, like those goals are teachable and learnable and applicable. You know, and, and uh, there's goals to be had there. So, uh, how much of your craft did you like think about with tips and with body position, and was that something that you like consciously worked on, uh, during your time as a pro?
Speaker 1:yeah for sure, and to, to touch on that. So you remember it was like in the early nineties, like in the AHL it was, you know it was. It was a gong show at times. So I remember my first, my first year, I think I had, you know, 10 or 11 fights in the first nine games. And when you do that it's like, well, then you got guys like big jerry fleming and guys looking for you.
Speaker 1:So in my mind I'm like I, this is not what I want my pro career to be. So I look to, uh, you know guys like brian scroodland and mike keen and the way they played the game as to a way I could get myself out of the ahl and into the NHL by, you know, competing hard defensively, being a good penalty killer, winning face-offs, just being reliable in all areas of the game. And you know I knew I wasn't going to score 40, 50 goals in pro. So I had to adapt and find a way to move myself up to the next level. And it was from watching guys that you know cup winners that you know and Mike Keane and Brian Scrutland that helped me kind of mold my it's going to take one short break from the podcast here discussion, discussion to give a shout out to UMH 68 Potential for Sponsorship.
Speaker 2:Now, what does that mean? Well, my main sponsor. I'm looking for one main sponsor in each province, or one title sponsor. Right now we are having discussions with a few different companies that are aligned in the space and could make great partners, but nothing's been ratified yet. So I thought I would use the podcast as an opportunity.
Speaker 2:I know there's a lot of business people that listen to this, who have people in hockey, and the idea here would be able to give back to an event and the players in it in a way that you can feel good about. One of the things that I don't want people to have to do is to say no to the UMH 68 Invitational because of financial restrictions. I know how expensive hockey is, I know it's a problem that we have with our sport, and the truth of the matter is, I mean, the event is an expensive one to put on, so for the most part, it is on the checkbooks of the players coming to make it happen. Now, last year, I was able to have a corporate sponsor that was able to offer scholarships to players that weren't able to make it otherwise, and whether that was in the form of some type of a percentage discount off the player fees. So that's a really awesome thing to be involved in as a company, to be able to give back and to see your name in the email saying that you know, for instance, last year was Iron Grows Construction. Iron Grows Construction got quite a few emails in BC from thankful families saying thank you to Iron Grows for allowing us to come, and it's a real feel-good way to be able to be involved in the grassroots idea of the game, being able to support up-and-coming players that want to be hockey players and not just play hockey and to pursue a potential career in it, whether that be to get paid for it one day or maybe to make the WHL level or to go to NCAA or whatever it is they want to do.
Speaker 2:But these players are all aspiring players and the event itself the UMH 68, is just a fantastic experience, uh, in and of itself, but the whole idea is is to develop these players, to give them, uh, insight and education into how to be their best and how to progress through the sport and how to navigate it, not only for them, but for their parents. So I really do feel it's a little bit of a curriculum aspect to it. Uh, that that I that I want all players to attend If they were good enough and if they proved themselves in the season to deserve an invite. I really don't want any reason other than their own schedules to be a declining reason. So, yes, if you are a sponsor out there, if you would like to get involved at a provincial level or at essentially a Western Canadian level to be involved in this event, I would love to partner with somebody who would like to take that headline role and to help keep player registration fees low and to be able to offer additional scholarships to players that might not otherwise be able to come. So you can get a hold of me at jasonupmyhockeycom if this is speaking to you, if there's something that you would like to partner with me on, or you can also get in touch with me through the website.
Speaker 2:So, uh, yeah, thanks for the consideration. Uh, please don't hesitate. If it's something that feels right to you, please reach out right away. And, uh, and we'd love to chat. Now let's get back to the conversation with clark wilm. What was a bigger challenge? Adapting to the WHL. Do you think? Or adapting to the pro game in the AHL?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. I look back at it now, moving to St John, new Brunswick, when a guy's 19, 20 years old, you're kind of thrown in and say, go find an apartment and play pro hockey. So that was a big adjustment. But fortunately, again, like there were some guys that I played junior with there that were there the year before, so they help out.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it's uh probably going to pro from junior just because you're on your own and you got to figure out, uh, you know cooking, cooking food and doing all that stuff and but I was again, I was lucky, my, my mom was a nurse and my and my dad was uh, obviously a farmer. So there's lots of times that uh, my brother and I we had to make breakfast and get on the bus and cook supper if they weren't there and kind of figure things out and do laundry. So it wasn't uh, or if they weren't there and kind of figure things out and do laundry. So it wasn't the everyday things that a guy needs to do when he's on his own. It wasn't that hard of an adjustment. So I just had to worry about some hockey.
Speaker 2:Right, it wasn't that big of a shock your first year there, going back to 16, being in Saskatoon now you'd already been there, like you said, a year before, so you'd been able to adjust to the, you know, to the school kind of the culture shock of being in a bigger city, uh, but yeah, but the WHL is not, is not midget triple-a either, and and a lot of guys that I've talked to is that 16 year old year is is sometimes the most challenging year of hockey for, for for guys, you know, just with maybe not getting that much ice time, you know, being being in an environment that seems overwhelming, you know, maybe a little bit homesick too. Can you speak to that Like, was there any? Was there anything for you in that year that that you've really remember, that you had to overcome and how you did it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it would probably be, you know, not getting as much ice time as you were used to, but it's. I think it helped too, because you try to figure out a way to get more ice time. How can I get the coach to play me more? Winning face-offs, blocking shots, just trying to do the things that can, as a young kid, get you a little more ice time. And if you play a couple more minutes a night because you're good defensively or you can be relied on defensively, then you know that adds up.
Speaker 1:So, but yeah, there was times as a 16-year-old you're sitting on the bench for 15 minutes out of the period and you get a shift here and there and it can be tough. So I think it helped, also having having retin chat around. As you know, they were 16 there at the same time, so, um and homesick wise being up there. The year before obviously there was. There was none of that, but it's uh, it can definitely be a challenge as a young kid when you're used to playing all the time and all of a sudden you're sitting on the bench watching yeah, or even in the stands watching right, like sometimes that happens to guys, uh, quite a bit too.
Speaker 2:It can be a tough transition, you uh, if you racked up enough penalty minutes for sure. You know it's funny because the year that you had like the really solid point year, um, you went down to 83. So obviously was you know, found uh, that you're maybe more valuable on the ice than the box, but it was still a part of your game. Like 180 pims, uh, kind of two years in a row. Is that when you realize that you're pretty darn good at at fighting? And it was, it was a piece of your game. And and how was your approach to, to that aspect of hockey?
Speaker 1:yeah, I found that I liked it, like it, uh, and it got a guy a little more room out there and and so, yeah, it's funny, like I went down in in pims my last year I'd blown my shoulder out in in the playoffs, so it just wasn't even an option. I played that year with with a shoulder that would pop in and out, so it was just, it wasn't uh, wasn't, it was more of a decision. Like I just can't do this because, right, my shoulder will blow out and I'll end up getting pumped, but I well, we're the same age, so you played back then. So, like, if you, you had to stick up for yourself to to gain respect of, of, uh, the opposing team and and earn some space out there. So, yeah, it's something I enjoy doing and and if I could, you know, gain an edge on an opponent some way, then you know I was game to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I found that. I mean not that I had. Well, I had a hundred pims pretty much every year.
Speaker 2:I played in junior and it you know, always, always some fights, you know what I I mean a handful for sure.
Speaker 2:My first year, I think is 16, is the most ever I ever had. I think we were like I had 15 fights or something as a 16 year old, uh, and then they went down from there. But I found myself a lot of times. Which I loved about the game was that like I found myself fighting for other guys lots, you know, like whether it was a Russian or somebody on the team that something would happen and I would get in there and do something, and then the reciprocality of that was like when something was happening to me, yeah, you do stand up for yourself, the you know, but here and there but other guys would step in for you like I, I kind of. That was one of the ways I fell in love with kind of our game was just like that brotherhood of you know kind of going to bat for each other, and I imagine you probably felt a little bit of that responsibility with Frankie and Mark as your line mates too.
Speaker 1:Oh for sure, yeah, 100%. And yeah, back then our Blades teams were tough. So it was, you know, you had Wade and McAllister and Rhett, and so there was you know six or seven guys that would go out there and, you know, try to set the tone. So it was part of our game that made us successful. We wanted to make the SAS place at the time be a tough place to play and I think we did that most nights and guys would stick up for each other and epic battles against Brandon with, with you know, chris dingman and and those guys just both top teams and and trying to get any advantage that you can. So it uh, it wasn't always fighting, but definitely sticking up for your teammates and knowing that, uh, you know we weren't going to get pushed around at any time yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2:Any surprises like from if you look back on junior now and that Eastern division I mean maybe even Frank Dale could be your answer. I mean Frank, frank Manum or Mark just like with, who didn't turn into the NHL player that you thought they would or had the career that they thought that you might. Anyone stick out in that regard?
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably Frankie. I know he know when he was up in Anaheim there he was scoring goals and had a good run there, for I can't remember how many games he played, but he was scoring goals. But then again he had some guy named Solani that he might have to overstep to get that power play time. So I think it's tough for guys to make that jump, but I thought with the way Frankie could shoot the puck and his high-end skill he would have got more of a shot in the NHL. But yeah, I think he played pro for 25 years. He might have just retired three years ago Like he was. He had a heck of a career and just a great player. Yeah, he played forever.
Speaker 2:How about your jump to the NHL? So I mean you had two solid years. Again, I mean you've already kind of positioned yourself, classified yourself, as you know. A've already kind of positioned yourself, classified yourself, as you know. A third line kind of dependable defensive player, you know that can chip in.
Speaker 2:So you know your stat line in St John's doesn't jump off the sheet when it comes to, you know, goals and assists. But they're solid years. You know, like there's you know 40 goals or 40 points in 68 games and after that year with your 112 pims you were able, looks like you made the team out of camp and say in, uh, in calgary and didn't get a call up the year before. So that's kind of an interesting transition. Usually that doesn't happen, as you know, right, like usually there's a cup of coffee kind of here and there they test you out and then and then maybe you get your, your um, your shot the next year in a full capacity, but you've made that jump right in there in 98-99. Talk about that transition and if there was any communication from the Flames and how your camp went that year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, again, I think I got lucky, Like Brian Sutter was the coach, so I would say I was probably a Sutter type of player. So, you know, over the summer, just said, you know, come to camp and play your game game and you'll have a good chance of making it. We were, we lost in the Calder Cup final the year before in St John, so we had a very successful year. So, but, yeah, lots of communication over the summer. Just come to camp, be in shape and be ready to play.
Speaker 1:And then when I got to camp, just uh, you know, trying to do anything I could to to stay there by, like I talked about before, maybe the odd fight or or winning draws and blocking shots and battling hard defensively and just trying to, uh, trying to play a game that I could play, or I thought I could play and and uh, impress Brian, and obviously I did. I was. I was obviously a huge amount of uh thanks to him for for selecting me and and keeping me around and getting my career started. But uh, again, probably some luck came into it just with the coach I had there and the uh timing I was there.
Speaker 2:Do you speak to the mindset, you know, of that coming into camp, you know, and not being, I don't know, not being awestruck or not feeling like you know maybe you don't belong or maybe it shouldn't be you, you know, like talking about doing the things required to stay there. I think that's a choice, you know, and whether you made that consciously or not, it it's a big piece, I think, of getting your foot in the door and then staying there. What are your thoughts on your mental approach to that scenario?
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:I think it's no shock that the mental side of the game is huge and you know I had my mind set that I wasn't going back to the minors.
Speaker 1:I was going to have a good summer workout and be in the best shape I could to go to camp and play my game to make it hard for them to send me down. I wasn't. You know, I was fully aware of what I had to do to be successful. I had to do to be successful and I just, you know, mentally focused on doing those things day in and day out, that maybe they weren't super flashy, but you get in some preseason games and you do the things that you can control. And I think compete was a huge part of my game and the reason I made the NHL. So you know going into the corner with a guy who is bigger than you and you know battling to come out with that puck, I think and that was all just through mindset that I wasn't going to be nut-eyed, I was going to go in there and I was going to win the battle and stick around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love hearing that and yeah, I mean you're discrediting yourself a little bit. I know it's, it's the humbleness in you like saying you know, got a bit lucky and you know and a coach and this and that, but you know there and there I guess there is some truth to that. You need to be in an environment that allows your you to be able to be there right Like the door needs to be somewhat open. You don't have to necessarily kick it down, but you obviously did the things required to get there and then to stay there for like five seasons in a row. I want to talk a bit about the transition from Bill Stewart to Sutter, because they seem to me a little bit of the same. I played for Bill in Germany when he was over there, and you talk about an old school coach. I think that he would qualify. What was your experience with Bill? And then maybe we'll contrast that with your experience with Sutter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love Bill Stewart. Like yeah, for him, he that second year in the minors. He had a huge impact on my game and gave me a lot of opportunity to to grow as a player. Year in the minors he he had a huge impact on my game and gave me a lot of opportunity to uh to grow as a player. But yeah, same thing that you knew exactly where you stand. He was uh. He wasn't afraid to give it to you if you weren't playing the way you were you needed to play or the way you thought you needed to play. He was uh. I found he was hard-nosed in that, but he was fair. If you showed up and you played your game and competed the way he saw, the way you should, then you played lots. He gave guys a fair opportunity. If you weren't taking shortcuts, you were rewarded. So he had a huge impact on me making that step to the NHL that next year also.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, that's great, that's great. Accolades for Bill, and just his coaching style probably wasn't too far off that of Sutter's, correct.
Speaker 1:No, not at all. Like you know, both hard-nosed guys that you know demanded hard work and, you know, lots of days. It wasn't easy and and I think I can fall back on on my farming upbringing like brian's brian's just a farmer like I still talk to him to this day and like he uh so when he was, when he was saying things at the rink and and the way he was, uh, he was approaching things, for me it was like being at home. I think you know probably somebody that, uh, that didn't come up with that upbringing would have had a tougher time with it, but for me it uh it's just kind of like being back on the farm. So it was, it was it worked out perfectly right, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:When did you, if you can remember, um, you know, like you, like I said you, I mean you had a full season. I never got to experience that, right. I, for me, I was up and down and and kind of was always felt like I was on on eggshells a little bit while I was there. You know, did you, did you feel settled at any point in that first year like I am an nhler, or was there a moment in time where you felt like, yeah, I've, I've made it.
Speaker 1:You know I'm, I'm one of them, uh, yeah, I think for the most part I don't know if comfortable is the right word you were always kind of a little worried. Until you, uh, until they told you to go find a place. So those first couple months, you don't know, you're in the hotel, you're, you're, uh, you're hoping you're going to stay, but you're not 100% sure. So probably the first couple months you don't know, you're in the hotel, you're, you're, uh, you're hoping you're going to stay, but you're not 100 sure. So probably the first couple months. But once I you know, you get a couple goals and and you're playing, playing good you kind of. For me anyway, I, I settled in, I was fortunate, didn't get scratched a lot. I think my first year I maybe got scratched for a couple, three or four games.
Speaker 1:So that also helps too if you're, if you're playing and you're in the lineup, nightly it's it's a different story. But uh yeah, lucky, luckily I I didn't spend a ton of time in the press box, so that probably made things a lot more comfortable for me and be able to go out and play my game what was your?
Speaker 2:who was your first fight?
Speaker 1:that's a good question. I don't even remember. I know, uh, that's a, that's a great. I should probably know that, but uh, uh that's all right.
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't know. I thought you would remember that how about the first goal?
Speaker 1:who was that on? I scored that in montreal. I remember that one. I think it was my specialty. I think it was about eight inches from the goal line and I shoveled it in. But to score a goal in Montreal, it was pretty special. So, yeah, puck was laying there, shot from the point, came in, shoveled it in and the rest was history. That's awesome. Who was in that?
Speaker 2:uh, jeff hackett oh okay, yeah, that's great. Uh, yeah, that. Was there any awestruck moments for you like I? I remember I got to play on my birthday my 21st birthday, I think uh in pittsburgh against mario, who was like my idol of all time, right growing up. I worship that guy and so for me there was. There was a couple moments like that in my first year. Playing against Gretzky at Madison Square Garden was crazy. Um, was there any moments like whether a fight or playing against one of your heroes that was?
Speaker 1:that was pretty surreal oh for sure, like same thing, like Mario and Jager, and like you watched those guys come into Calgary and just how good they were and it was. You're sitting on the bench and just in awe of those guys and, you know, taking a couple face-offs against Gretzky and Madison Square Garden, like just unreal experiences when you're, when you're a young kid and you grow up watching those guys on TV and to be able to, you know, go out there and be on the same ice as the best hockey player to ever play was pretty special. But, yeah, probably same as you.
Speaker 2:those two guys, like those were the guys growing up in the 80s, 80s and early 90s that were, you know, they were gods yeah, what's the biggest difference for you in your opinion of, like the pro game and even the junior game, like I talked to players about you know, trying to trying to think about, maybe, what the standards are where you're not yet you, you know like, so okay, if you're, if you're youth 13, you're playing well like our younger kids. You know you're going to be going to Bantam next year and you're gonna be playing with these other, these bigger, stronger guys Like how do we, how do we maybe think or train or try to prepare ourselves for for that next level and and then not having to adjust as much once once we're there, do you feel that there was like a transition from your time, whether even to be in the minors, to being an NHLer and what that routine and standard was like compared to other times in your career?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's a huge jump from the AHL to the NHL. But you know, you almost I don't want to say you almost find it easier because everybody's in position, everybody knows exactly what they're doing. So it's you know, the actual structure of the game in the NHL I found easier than in the AHL, where it's a little more all over the place because you've got guys that are, you know, still learning the pro game and et cetera. But yeah, just the skill level in the NHL from the AHL was just a huge adjustment. You're out there playing against, like we said earlier, like Mario, who dominates the game with his size and skill and if he wants the puck he has the puck as long as he wants it essentially. So just to try to find ways to play against players of that skill level was a huge adjustment.
Speaker 2:How are your habits away from the ice? You know there's tons of details, of course, to the game that allow you to play as many games as you did. But what was that like for some of my listeners out there? You mean just being an nhler, like how? I mean it was a bit of a different era. Of course, like I think these guys are even more dialed than than than we were back in the day, but there was definitely a commitment and a process the guys were looking after.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, different era. Like you know, late 90s, we were doing a lot of things that these guys wouldn't be doing, but you still, you know you watched what you ate, you tried to stay healthy. You tried to. You know, eat healthy and you know, stay in as best shape as you can. It's you know it's impossible to play in the NHL if you're out of shape. It just doesn't work. So you know, we probably didn't maybe have as many protein drinks as the guys do these days, have as many protein drinks as the guys do these days, but guys were still taking care of themselves and trying to, trying to eat healthy and and try to limit their beer and chicken wing intake.
Speaker 2:So didn't know how did your training evolve throughout your career? I mean, you played up till 2010. That was really when the I think that the physical side of the game was really starting to like, okay, this is a big deal, right. Like the training really does matter. How you train matters, the way you train, the frequency, all this stuff. I think like we were inundated at the pro level with really a culture change from the 80s right through the 90s and the early 2000s and now I think it's even like that development thing has even jumped now into the psychology side of it and the mental side of it. I think I mean, guys are even now exploring that frontier, the mental frontier. But as far as the physical realm is concerned, like how did how did your, how did your regimen change from you know first year, 98, 99, to maybe 10 years later there when you were, when you were leaving the game?
Speaker 1:Yeah, in Calgary we were all I'm sure you did the same with with florida but like they would bring us into town for for a month of the summer and and we'd all work out together and and, uh, you know they try to show us as many things as as they could to to take home and continue to train with.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, it's uh, and as a young guy, you know, having some guy like again around who was also, you know, he's a year younger than me, but he was just in that he was next level in the gym working out, the way he took care of himself back in even the late 90s was would be comparable to what these, these kids do today. So to have somebody like that around, your same age, and just watch what he did. So, yeah, going in the summer and working out in Calgary for three weeks and then to play there and stay there in the summer and work out with the strength coaches was huge, because if you're not in a group, if you're not, it's, in my opinion, it's too tough to buy, do by yourself. So, fortunately, like there was a big group of us that stayed there in Calgary, so you know we'd meet five days a week and and work out in the morning. So it uh. Yeah, it was, it was uh. It was good to have that group around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome. I remember, like in Florida you bring up Florida and, uh, I, I would assume this is. This has changed. But like one of the one of the big tests of of camp was this cardio test, which was either a 20 mile bike ride or a five mile run. Like you got to choose which one. I just kind of laugh at that now because, although that is you know your aerobic capacity is is a good precursor.
Speaker 2:Like I don't think any NHL teams are doing like long form endurance testing right now. You know, like it's, it's kind of, I think I think the the game has evolved a little bit past that, but one of the things that I that I think they've gotten away from. I don't know how you feel about this, but like we spent a lot of time in the bike like stationary bike, right leg strength and everything else, whether it be sprint testing or whatever the case may be, and I don't see many guys doing it anymore and I just think that was like I don't know I I thought it was great for the legs, I thought it was a great connection to to skating and and and maintaining that you know that strong lower base and um anyways, and I don't see them doing that now. Did you spend a lot of time on the bike when when you were, when you were going?
Speaker 1:through it, oh for sure. Yeah, like a ton of time on the stationary bike. Like, did uh obviously just sprints and inhale sprints, but a lot of time on the bike and it. I think, luckily, in calgary we did a lot of stuff at, uh, you know, the olympic oval. So we, our, our tests were never anything like that, the five mile runner or we did, uh, we did more testing that was based off of kind of what the Olympic athletes were doing. So, um, I think at that time it was our hard bike was a two and a half minute bike ride where they kind of calculated and they keep, they kept upping the watts until you basically couldn't move anymore. So it uh, yeah, I think calgary at that time was was, uh, paying attention to what the olympic athletes were doing and and trying to do testing that was more based along that lines. How do you feel for?
Speaker 2:from a, from a younger player development standpoint now, like I mean, you said your youngest is a 2012, 2012. Uh, do you have your guy in the gym? Do you have them working out off the ice? When it comes to you know, either trying to just be a better athlete or trying to be a better hockey player, do you think that's something to incorporate and, if so, uh, when?
Speaker 1:when would be a good time yeah, the younger guy, not not much. He did obviously power, power skating and skill stuff he does, but he'll be going into first year U15. So this year we'll start putting him in with a group to train. I think it's important when you get to that age to learn how to do it right and do it consistently. Because, yeah you, you 13 to you 15, I I think it's a huge jump that those those years there when you're, uh, when you're a first year you 15 kid, compared to some of those second year you 15 kids, like it's there's a big gap there. Like those guys that are that are second years, that are going into their draft year. Like there's lots of guys that are six feet tall, 185 pounds, so you gotta, I think those those first year kids have to have to spend some time and in the gym and be ready to go when they get to training camp or tryouts, whatever you want to call it yeah, it's a big age span.
Speaker 2:Especially, I noticed your birthday. So you're october 24, you know that's a late birthday. You got you got an extra year in the draft because of that. That's like the only time where I would deem it as an advantage. Like, how do you speak that just from your own personal experience, being being a guy that you know everyone else in your birth class had, like you know, 10 months on, essentially a head start on. I think that makes a big difference at the at those ages.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent. I I heard something the other day about I don't know the exact number, but you know the majority of kids drafted in the WHL are drafted Like they're born in that first four or five months, like it's. It's uh, I don't know the exact exact number, but it's you know it's something like 70%, because when you're unless you're an early developing kid that's born late in the year, like that is a huge gap, like 10 months, january 1st. Those kids have a huge advantage at a young age to kids that are born in October, november, december. So yeah, I don't know if there's a good answer for what those kids can do other than Well, you did it though, hey.
Speaker 2:So, like, what was your experience with that? Did you feel like were you physically later to the party than other guys? Was that not as much of an issue for you in your, in your development path?
Speaker 1:no, I was fortunate. I was, uh, I grew early, so essentially when I was playing, playing you, uh, you, 18, I was the you know, six feet tall and 185 pounds. So it was you know, that side of things. I I was lucky that I developed earlier, so it, it wasn't, it wasn't an issue for me, but I, yeah, like I said, I was when I was 16 playing for the blades. I was kind of the same size as I was, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for the I I mean for the smaller players out there it's like it can be an advantage.
Speaker 2:You mean, I want players to look at it that way, because I think any environment or any event it's how you perceive it, you know is is what it is, what the actual thing is, the meaning is going to be. And if you are a smaller player, then just find other ways to be successful, right, like I had Duncan Keith on the other day and he was just talking about that because he was a. He was a smaller player and he just had to find other ways to be valuable, right, and other ways to win a battle in the corner, or other ways to be able to move pucks instead of skating pucks past people. So I do think that if you learn some of those skill sets, due to your size inadequacy, it can actually maybe even give you a, you know, give you an advantage when, once you do catch up when it comes to the, the physical aspect, because you've learned different aspects of the game that maybe some of these early matures haven't haven't had to adopt. Yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:I. I feel that it's all you know. Everybody's, everybody's different. So you need to find ways to to benefit your game. And if you're, if you're a smaller guy, then you know you need you need to find ways that you can be successful and and and contribute to your team and help yourself get better. And then if you're a bigger kid, same thing you need to. You need to use your size to your advantage and find ways to to to be successful. In that it's. It's, I think, a huge part of it is just the mindset on on finding ways that you can, you can make yourself a better player. There's, there's tons of options out there and there's there's tons of things that, uh, that you can do to make yourself a better player.
Speaker 1:It's just being willing to willing to do it and being open to different things.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, that's a really good, really good piece of advice there. And actually you know what I? I I did a deep dive on that draft, so not to like prove, like that your number was wrong there, but I actually did it because I have one kid that well, I was a February birthday and then I have two of my kids are late birthdays and I was just like, especially with the Bantam draft being right Like a year before it has to be, when all these kids are still growing, right, it makes the job on the scouts so much harder. So I was like, okay, where do these kids get drafted?
Speaker 2:Because, technically speaking, right, like if everything was equal and the year split up into four quarters, right, three months, january, february, march and so on and so forth, you would think there'd be equal representation, right? 25%, 25%, 25%, 25%. So I ran all the numbers, I did it for two, two draft years, three, no, two draft years, and it was almost the exact same. So the second and third quadrant, um, whatever months those would be. So you know, april, may, june, and, and, and the other one.
Speaker 2:They had 25, almost exactly 25 of the draft, but the difference was on the, it was on the fronts and backs. So the the last half, the last quadrant, uh, october, november, december only had 10 representation from that quarter and that entire quadrant went to the first quarter right. So like if they were supposed to have, you know, 25, they had 35. 40 like of the draft was in that first three months and it fell off on the back three. So I mean that. I mean. Well, what does that say? All that says is like to me, they can't be less skilled, there's not less hockey players born there, all the rest of it. It's just that they're not as old.
Speaker 1:You know they're not, they're not yeah exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um, it's kind of interesting. I mean it's a bit unfortunate, but there's always a pathway for those guys. I mean, if you don't get drafted and if you're from the West early, I mean, it doesn't mean that the road's over by any means. I think that's where kind of the passion of it comes in. You know, I mean, if you just keep playing, you know, just keep playing and you never know what's going to happen. But yeah, I feel bad players, because trying to guess what a, what a 14 year old is going to be at 18 is pretty hard. It's hard enough at the nhl when you're trying to figure out what an 18 year old is going to be right at the as a pro, uh, definitely an imperfect science.
Speaker 1:No, exactly, and yeah, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not surprised that those, those are the numbers, that, uh, the way it shakes out because those, those kids in the last three months is, yeah, they're just younger, yeah, you're, you know you're, you're eight, nine, ten months younger than than some guys. So that's a, that's a huge amount of development at 13, 14 years old yeah, if you could just pause time.
Speaker 2:I've always thought that, like everyone else just goes like freezer mode and then, like, give this kid 10 months to catch up, like you're going to see a very, very different player. I mean, you see it in all of our kids what happens in 10 months, it's an eternity, um. So anyways, well, we, we, uh, we're at our hour mark. I told you I'd keep you for an hour, so I really appreciate the time. Clarky, it's good to celebrate your, uh, your journey there. Um, yeah, and we didn't even touch on you going overseas and and as and as long as you played, but uh, I, I think, I think we did. We touched on a lot of topics and I think that the, the, my listeners are going to appreciate, uh, the stories you told.
Speaker 1:So thanks, for showing up. No, awesome thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:It was a lot of fun thank you so much for being here for the entire episode with Clark. Always great to connect with somebody that you used to battle with and someone that you share kind of an era of. We both experienced the game back in the 90s and trying to get into the league in the 90s and early 2000s, where you don't have to be much of a hockey historian to know how tough the league was and how hard it was to get in there. And Clark did get in and I think that's awesome that he was able to recognize that the coaches he had really supported his style and his advancement to the NHL level. Clark was a heck of a I mean in his way right, not in a Frank Bannum way he was a skilled player. He he had skills that other guys don't have and he had the hands that were good enough to put the puck in the net and but he might not have been a player for another style of coach potentially If he was in another, if he was in another organization, and that's one of the crazy things about hockey is that where you are really matters, and one of the things that I love working with players on is like, despite where you are, what can you do to make yourself valuable, maybe to a coach that your style of play isn't naturally conducive to something that he is drawn to?
Speaker 2:There is things that we can do and instead of throwing our hands up in the air, like, potentially, maybe, I did a couple of times, there are ways to get involved in that, there are ways to take ownership of it, there are ways to take accountability for that and to help yourself have the best opportunity available. But for Clark, yeah, I mean he went from Bill Stewart to Sutter and both of those coaches really aligned with his style of play and his personality type and off he went to the races, you know, 455 games later, had a great NHL career, correcting an NHL pension and now he's giving back to the game that gave him so much and supporting his boys through it by volunteering his time to coach. So awesome to connect with Clark. I think there's lots of good lessons in there and until next time, play hard and keep your head up.