Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
EP.151 - Player Development and Community Impact: Insights from Andrew Milne of the Canmore Eagles
This episode features Andrew Milne, head coach and general manager of the Canmore Eagles, who shares insights on the importance of work ethic, teamwork, and personal growth in hockey. He discusses the changing landscape of junior hockey and emphasizes the values of integrity and character development.
• The significance of work ethic and self-assessment
• Honesty and integrity in player development
• The evolving nature of junior hockey recruitment
• Teamwork and individual contributions to success
• The role of community in nurturing hockey talent
• Celebrating engagement through events like Hockey Day in Canada
If you're passionate about hockey and aspire to develop not just as an athlete but as a person, tune in to Andrew's invaluable perspectives on achieving success.
The honesty of Todd saying, like listen, you're not very good at this, but you are good at that, and if you continue to build on that, you know that could be something that can take you to where you want to go at the National Hockey League level. And I do the same thing here. I mean, todd taught me that at a young age. You know being honest and upfront with is far more important. It maybe stings a little bit early, but we're not closing the door. We're just telling you there's some certain things you're going to have to work on to get there. And I think that's been one thing that I've sort of stuck with in my recruiting and my coaching is that you know I'm not saying you can't get there, but I'm saying you're not there right now.
Speaker 2:That was Andrew Milne, the head coach and general manager of the AJHL's Canmore Eagles, and you are listening to the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan.
Speaker 3:Welcome to Up my Hockey with Jason Padolan, where we deconstruct the NHL journey, discuss what it takes to make it and have a few laughs along the way. I'm your host, jason Padolan, a 31st overall draft pick who played 41 NHL games but thought he was destined for a thousand. Learn from my story and those of my guests. This is a hockey podcast about reaching your potential.
Speaker 2:Hey there, welcome to, or welcome back to, the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. I am your host, jason Padolan, and you are here for episode 151. And today we're talking with Andrew Milne, currently the head coach and general manager of the Canmore Eagles of the Alberta Junior Hockey League, the AJHL. Andrew and I were teammates briefly in Spokane my 19 year old year. He was a younger, a younger man uh that ended up getting traded throughout the WHL, which we talk about Uh, and he got into coaching shortly after his playing career was done. Uh spent some time with the Camels Blazers and the Swift Current uh uh Broncos of the WHL as an assistant coach and then got into uh the Canmore Eagles Association after being fired which we don't talk about with cameras. There's new ownership came in and uh the current coaching staff there got let go. He came over to the Canmore Eagles and has been here now. I think, geez, this is 18th year, potentially a long time 16th maybe year uh long run in Canmore. For those of you who aren't familiar with Canmore, it's one of the most beautiful places in the world uh, nestled right in uh the Canadian Rockies. Absolutely gorgeous place to call home Uh and the players that get to play there are very lucky to uh to play junior hockey in Canmore and and uh and Andrew's done an amazing job there. You know that the team is currently first place in the entire AJHL uh, with a 29, 11 and four a record for 63 points. At the time of this podcast, uh airing and doing a great job there. They got their sights set on hopefully, a championship this year and uh, or at least a deep run. And uh and he's doing a great job with with recruiting. Now the the landscape of junior hockey is changing dramatically. Uh, unfortunately in this episode we didn't get a chance to talk too much about that with scholarships now being able to be awarded to CHL players, canadian Hockey League players of the OHL, qmjhl and the Western League. This has changed things a lot. Even with the AJHL splitting up and some of the teams moving to the BCHL has changed things. That was last year. Uh, now we're dealing with this new NCAA ruling, so lots, lots have changed for someone like Andrew, especially in his chair, about who he's recruiting and where his players can go and can't go and what that's going to look like for the landscape of hockey. But regardless, uh, the AJHL is one of the top Junior A Leagues in Canada to play and, regardless of where you can or can't play, this is a good opportunity and a great league to be playing in. So Andrew talks about some of his development tactics, some of his coaching tactics. Who he's looking for in a player in this scenario. We also talk a little bit about Hockey Day in Canada, which came over to Canmore this year, which Andrew played a big part in. So a really good discussion.
Speaker 2:Andrew himself, super personable guy I mean, you're going to get that right away. He's easy to talk to, easy to talk with Very funny storyteller. He has me laughing every time I'm around him. So I know you're going to enjoy this, this episode, and and lots to learn from him. You know someone who's been in the game in his capacity for as long as he has been, uh, developing others with the hopes of not only winning hockey games but, of course, moving players onto the next level, uh, to do that in one spot for 16 years, uh, you must be doing a good job of it. So, uh, yeah, without further ado, I bring you my former teammate and current head coach and general manager of the Canmore Eagles, andrew Milne. All right, here we are for episode 151 of the Up my Hockey podcast and we have on the head coach and general manager and a former teammate of mine for a hot minute there back in Spokane, mr Andrew Milne. Thanks for joining us today, andrew.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for having me, pods.
Speaker 2:Really appreciate the opportunity to come and chat with you. Yeah, it'll be fun. I think that there's a lot to chat about. For my audience, we haven't really covered the AJHL pathway that much and obviously you're super familiar with that. The junior landscape in general in Western Canada is crazy, but we'll definitely stay on the rails, too, with just the development aspect, so we're not alienating everybody. Uh, all of my us listeners are from, from the east coast there, so, uh, with that in mind, uh, maybe we'll just start with that give, give people an idea of your background and, uh, and where you came to arrive at the place you're at now yeah, well, I think you know you know more than anybody it wasn't a great hockey player.
Speaker 1:So I I was fortunate enough to get, uh, you know, in my minor hockey in St Albert and played through there and played some juniorA and, you know, played in St Albert when we won actually we had, you know, fernando Paisani and Stevie Reinprecht and some guys you're familiar with that played in the National League and you know, I played there as a young guy in my hometown. And then, you know, I was a one dimensional player player. I couldn't do a whole lot more than scrap. So made my way to the western league and, and you know, started and spoke. I was fortunate enough, I say always to get traded a bunch of times. So started and spoke, played with babs, you know, traded over to swift current and got to play for todd mcclellan um, you know. And then ended up getting traded quickly over to medicine hat and back to swift current and ended my career in swift current with todd and then played a year pro before I started coaching with Todd, which is great. And then I had Dean Chenelf as another coach of mine in Swift Current. So I was doing that the whole time and then I took advantage of the Western Hockey League school money. I was able to get, you know, four years paid for from the Western League.
Speaker 1:So I went to U of A and took a sports management degree. Well, you know, at that point I was coaching with the hometown team in St Albert, so coached there for a bunch of years and then went back on my degree and then went back to the Western League. I was fortunate enough to go back to Swift Current and then over to Kamloops with another you know great coach in Dean Clark for a bunch of years and then the team got sold and we all got fired and ended up coming to Canmore and I really thought I'd be here for a cup of coffee and a year or two and then maybe move back onto the Western League. And I had a pretty good idea of my path. But you know, things change and now, 16 or 17 years later, I'm still here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they do change, and that's not a bad place to be hanging your hat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. That's part of the reason why I haven't ventured too far from here.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, right, yeah. For any Canadian fans out there, uh, maybe you you saw hockey day in Canada, was in, was in Canmore this year and uh, right, nestled in the heart of the Rockies and absolutely picturesque, gorgeous place, uh, and, yeah, we'll talk about that too. But, uh, what a great place to play junior hockey, great place to coach it. I can see why you haven't left. Uh, you talk about Todd McClellan, so, like and and Babs and for those who don't understand Babs, that's Mike Babcock, now a little bit of a strange hockey coach in the world, but for a period of time was probably recognized as maybe the best coach in the NHL. So you had your taste with Babs. You also had your taste with McClellan, who is now currently coaching Detroit. Just got hired on there and they're on a big run with him. You told me last time a funny story with Todd, because wasn't he the one that said hey, man, you might want to start thinking about coaching. However, he put, it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he pulled me in my office typical 19-year-old at the end of the season and asked me what my plan was for the 20-year-old year and moving forward. No-transcript knack for the for the coaching side, but maybe not on the playing side. So actually at 19 I started working with Todd and the scouting staff in Swift Current and I did a bunch of the prospects cups and toured with them on all their scouting, went through the Bantam Draft at 19 and so I really got my, my insight quickly from from those guys and then played out you know a little bit of my 20 year old year with them as well and was able to stay on involved with them and then went and played a year of pro. As you know, you sort of get that year of grace period with the school money from the Western League. So I did that over in the UK and with actually a good friend of Todd's was the head coach over there, randy Smith, and I went over and played and then when that ended I came back to coach with them and sort of started my coaching career at 21.
Speaker 1:So I've been in the game a long time. I've been doing it a long time and Todd's been a great mentor of mine. Along the way I talk to Todd quite frequently Lots of advice he's given me. You know I was really fortunate when I played in Swift Current I got to meet Patrick Marleau and we became really good friends and so, you know, with Todd being the coach in San Jose and Patrick playing there as the captain, I got a real, you know, good insight to how it works between player and coach relationships. And you know there's often times when I'd be out for dinner with Marleau and Joe Thornton and Pavelski and then in the office the next morning with Todd McClellan and his coaching staff at, you know, seven o'clock, going over pregame and ice and everything like that. So it was really cool sort of opportunity for me to get to see both sides that's cool.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm writing a ton of notes here and hopefully we can, we can touch on them all but that, so I'm laughing and you're laughing about this conversation happened as a 19 year old uh, through your eyes and you have these plans. Yet this coach I mean obviously now a very super accomplished coach yeah, gives you some hard news. You know, like that's not easy and that's not easy to hear, probably as a 19 year old. It's sometimes not easy for coaches to deliver, and especially in this world of yes, yes, yes to death, people right, uh, that players can turn the other way and go the other way and listen somewhere else. For coaches to deliver, and especially in this world of yes, yes, yes to death, people right, that players can turn the other way and go the other way and listen somewhere else. Can we dive into that a little bit? Like you know, how did you take that? How did you respect that in the moment and how have you even used that as a coach yourself?
Speaker 1:now delivering some hard messages. Yeah, you know what? Again, I think you know I was sort of just, you know, playing hockey at a at a level when I was younger, without much thought into what I was doing. I mean, I was like I said I was was a limited skilled player. I didn't have a ton of skill. I sort of found a niche in that if I, you know, I I could protect some of my players and stick up for guys. And then, you know, when I played junior in St Albert, I realized it was also a bit of an entertainment value. I mean, I was a local kid, you know I'd have 100 of my buddies at the game, you know, to watch me scrap and you know, realizing that was like well, there's a business there too. And I could see why I was on the team for a while when I was putting bums in seats and able to do that. And I went to Swift Current, you know, stick up for my teammates and be a team guy and you know the terminology we use now is the glue guy and I think I did that. I was always there for guys and you know I got a quick story on that.
Speaker 1:Sergei Varlamov, who you'd remember was was a CHL player of the year that year. He'd come over from the Ukraine and didn't understand English very well and and he was an elite player. I mean he was really good and Sergei and I got a bit of a relationship and I, I can remember once Sergey walked into Todd's office and he gave him a hundred dollars for curfew and Todd said what do you mean? He said well, I know home tonight, I know home. And Todd said that's not how it works. He said yeah, you said a hundred dollars curfew, I know home tonight. So I get a phone call at about eight, 30 at night at my house and my billets and Todd says, hey, get to this party, sergey's at the party and we never know what kind of trouble Sergey is going to get into. So I was given the green light to go to the party as long as I babysat Sergey a little bit.
Speaker 1:So for me my role was pretty evident and and you know, I did sort of a lot of things that you know maybe you know guys that were weren't playing as much didn't do. I was really aware of what was I had and the path that I was going to have to have if I wanted to play at the pro level was going to be pretty physically demanding, hard on the face, hard on the hands, and I just sort of made a conscious decision after that Todd's comment that, like he's probably right, there's more to life than just scrapping my way through the minor pro levels and you know, and you know if I can help coach and be a part of that. You know it was interesting that that. You know it's a tough pill to swallow when he first tells you that, but you know, all of a sudden the typical Todd he followed up with. But there's a, there's a light at the end of this tunnel, andrew, I think you can. You can be in the national hockey league just not as a player.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love, I love that there is another door that he was opening for you, and I think that's a that's an important thing as a coach and even as a parent, like I find, like the conversations maybe I'll put my parent hat on with with my own boys is trying to be as honest as we can be, without putting a ceiling on them either, because's amazing I know you've seen it a thousand times with how long you've been around the game like boy, can players change, you know, and and they can develop and there is room to grow.
Speaker 2:And that's all that I'm about with. What I do with players is like, hey, there, I don't want there to be a ceiling, but I think, in saying that we need to know who we are, because there is something that is essential to us, a thing that we provide value with. And I think, like you know when, when you have a guy that might be the prototypical third line kind of power forward guy who thinks he's, you know, tiptoeing through through the uh, through the middle all the time and with his toe drags, he's not really understanding who he is, now does that mean he can't beat a guy one-on-one ever? No, now, does that mean he can't beat a guy one-on-one ever? No, but he needs to understand his identity, right? So I think there's a fine line there, right, between allowing players to understand how they provide value and allowing them to grow, yet being honest enough with them to say, hey, this is where your wheelhouse is for you to be effective.
Speaker 1:And I think that you're right. You're bang on and that's also immediately, like you know, time and a place for a toe drag through the middle, um, when you're playing on the third line, I mean I want you to be free to be able to do that, but you know, if the turnover costs us the game, that's a bit of a you know a difficult position to put us in. But you know time and a place is important to that. And I think you know freedom of, of developing, I mean players not just change on the ice but off the ice, and that's something that I think as a coach now in junior we're also really put in a position of not just teaching these guys all about the game on the ice but off the ice.
Speaker 1:And you know, as I deal with junior hockey players all the time, there's all sorts of things that come into play and the development of a tough 18-year-old year because a player got a girlfriend and then broke up with a girlfriend, and you know that educational period of like you know they've got to learn what that is and go through that to be better as a 19-year-old, to be better as a 20-year-old. There's a reason that junior hockey is that long. It can be a five-year career for some guys, but there's a lot of things that change over that. Five years of development, not just off the ice but on the ice as well. Players develop and change.
Speaker 1:In Junior A we've seen what I call the slower development plan. A lot of guys are into the Western League at 16 and are quickly, you know, in that path of development and have to be somewhere by 18 and somewhere by 19. Whereas our guys get that, you know, what we always say is that 16 to 20 year old year of learning and developing, and then you can jump into college at 21 and you have another four or five years of college before you need to play pro hockey. So you know it is a long term play and that's hard for some guys to look at.
Speaker 2:For sure you know it is a, it is a long-term play and that's hard for some guys to look at. For sure. What I think is fun is actually when someone walks through my door that maybe hasn't been as dedicated or committed, you know, and hasn't been exposed to as many developmental options. Because that's when there's like this explosive growth, you know, and it's kind of interesting because we're all trying to, you know, we, we I mean you identify potential right. How good can this guy be for me? What's he going to be at 19?
Speaker 2:Nhl scouts are doing it all the time too, and sometimes players are so polished. Right now, like the last five, 6% of your potential is the hardest to get right. You have to put in the most time, the most effort. If you're, if you're already operating at around a 70%, you haven't done anything like there's a, there's a lot of room there. So it's kind of interesting when you, when you talk about that because I don't think that's on many people's spectrum as far as like development cues or questions to ask, like sometimes it's it's when you're trying to project it's almost better to have somebody that's more raw.
Speaker 1:I agree. I mean that you're right. We talk about that 10,000 hours and how we have to hit that in order to develop. You know, and I always tell guys, you've got to be mentally mature enough to hit the 10,000 hours. I mean we can skate all we want when we're young and then something changes. You know, at an age of 16 or puberty hits and things change drastically.
Speaker 1:And I've always said that, like, the idea of development is so fun because you're right, you get to see, guys, that maybe you look at a player and say, geez, he hasn't had much coaching, he hasn't had much commitment to the gym, he hasn't had much off ice work, and so when you see that and a player realizes that, hey, if I put in the work, there's going to be a reward, um, for us, that's the player we seek out, right, that's the guy we want to find, that's the guy that you know.
Speaker 1:You know the guys have been good at a young age, haven't had to solve a lot of problems, right, it's just a pretty easy problem. I mean, you know, I'm sure you were in that position when you played. You could skate out of any problem you had. Where, you know, once guys caught up to you. You got to figure out other ways to get out of those problems. Skating didn't work for you every time, and now you're going to use strength or speed or agility or you know, hockey IQ. So I say that all the time, like, solving problems is what hockey is all about, and if you've to solve that problem and that tool isn't there anymore, you're kind of in trouble yeah, I love that analogy, that's great.
Speaker 2:uh, I, I think, talking about the development piece, it's just it's front and present for me right now, because I, on monday mornings, I work with just a small group of young players. Right, I usually don't work with players that young, but I got some 10, 11 year olds that are just doing skating work with me and this one, this one player, came like really raw right, like playing, playing, rep, playing, playing, rep, playing at a high level, but you can tell he hasn't either hasn't played long or hasn't had any instruction and and he was having a hard time with simple edge work and but through the course of one hour, right To watch this guy it was, it was noticeably different in one hour. And then we went on this ice this morning again for my second session with him and he had worked on it. Hey, this morning again for my second session with him and he had worked on it. Hey, hint to everyone out there, right, just don't do it in your skill session, but work on it on your own time.
Speaker 2:This guy was like a new player, you know, like it was so exciting for me, like I just love seeing that when guys buy in the lights go on for them and there's so much room right when you're starting kind of with that low bar. That is so fun to be a part of that and and it's exciting for me to see that it's harder at your guys' level, but it still happens. I'm sure you see an immense amount of growth from some players from the beginning to the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, what I think is interesting, claude, is when we grew up, the coaches always worked with the best players, right? So if you weren't one of the best players, you never got the best coaching and therefore you probably weren't getting the best educational pieces you could from coaches. And we'll call it second and third tier coaching was occurring, and nowadays it seems like, like you just said, that player can get on the ice with a coach like yourself who's got the experience, who's got that, and that's odd, I think, from back when we were playing the game. Now you know you get access to great coaches all the way through it. It doesn't you don't have to be playing the U18 AAA team or the Bantam AAA team. I mean, I say that to guys all the time, like the guys that play the Bantam AAA. You know, as their underage year are the best players regardless. You know it's. That doesn't mean that they're not going to develop younger players. We just need to get access to those guys and, like you just said, there's a young kid that gets access to you and learns and takes it all in and absorbs it, and you know the ceiling for him is huge and that's where hockey's gotten.
Speaker 1:I think we've gotten, you know, a lot better, in the sense that we're giving more opportunities for maybe not the mainstream guys to get coaching, but the other guys, and that's where we're going to see our program in Hockey Canada develop. We're going to get younger guys that maybe aren't great at 9, 10, and 11, but are going to be really good at 16, 17, 18. And that's where we have to stick with it Because, like you just said earlier, they start to weed out by guys not paying attention to everything, like their off-ice, their habits. Their development isn't just skating on the ice, it's being in the gym, it's nutrition, it's sleep, it's mentally Like it's everything. You've train everything. Now you know, and that's something that I think we've lacked in the last you know, probably in the last 10 years, prior to that right going back to that truth piece.
Speaker 2:So I've just now I put on the hat, like your hat, of being a recruiter. You're also a recruiter at your level, being a general manager, and you need to have players that want to come to your program. And players want to be told that they're going to be big pieces of a program and they're going to do this and they're going to do that, and and I've seen it a thousand times where those promises fall flat and then you're left with a unhappy player, unhappy family. How do you balance that line of being honest, you know, hopeful, yet not painting a picture that everyone's going to be on the first line power play, which they probably all want to hear?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I say that all the time. I mean, the only thing you can leave when you're done with this game is your integrity. And you know I learned that lesson from Todd right there, like the honesty of Todd saying like listen, you're not very good at this, but you are good at that. And if you continue to build on that, you know that could be something that can take you to where you want to go at the National Hockey League level. And I do the same thing here. I mean Todd taught me that at a young age. You know being honest and upfront with is far more important. It maybe stings a little bit early, but we're not closing the door. We're just telling you there's some certain things you're going to have to work on to get there. And I'm saying you're not there right now. And you know the good news is we've got, you know, a 19 year old ahead of you who's been here for three years, who started where you were, that you get to learn from and watch and observe and and just just watch the way they train on a daily basis at 17. You get to see what that 19 year old does, because when he was 17, he did the exact same thing you did, and so there has to be a development plan in place for the entire group and I think that's that's really you're right. That's difficult for kids to see me.
Speaker 1:I mean, if I recruited, I I always tell people I could recruit. I can tell you exactly what you want to hear. You're going to be on the first line power play. You know you're going to be on the first line. You're going to be a top six forward. You're going to live in a five million dollar house up on the hill in Canmore that has a hot tub, you know, overlooking the valley. Like I'm recruiting you with everything you want to hear. You know the reality is, is it true, like you know? Then you get here and all of a sudden that's not true, that maybe there's a bit of a disconnect between you and I as a player and a coach, because I lied to you and if I don't play on that line, you know I tell guys the only guarantee in hockey is that there is no guarantee guarantee. You know I say to players a lot if you can guarantee me 10 goals in your first 10 games, can you do that? They say no, but I can't guarantee you're going to be on the power play, but if you score 10 goals in your first 10 games, there's a good chance you're going to be playing on the top line, right? The guarantees are just so hard to give, and anyone who's giving you a guarantee I think that's for young players I would tell them that right off the bat.
Speaker 1:Any our league pods and the Western league is when you get drafted by the Western hockey league. You have no choice. You're going there. I got listed by Spokane, the furthest team away from St Albert, and I had to walk into my mom and say, mom, I'm moving to Spokane and she was like, absolutely not like. But that's not how this works, mom. You have to go to Spokane. That's who's listed me, you know. And so you get no say in that versus our league. You get pro choice or you get to decide where you sign, and so you know.
Speaker 1:I think that becomes an interesting dynamic when we're getting kids that, like, we have to tell them, like you know, from a truth perspective, is like you know, we want you to play here. Here's what we want to do with you over the next four or five years, but it's going to be a long-term play, right, you don't. You don't get to, you don't get to sort of say we don't get to say that we've already got your rights, so ha ha, like we've got you and there's nothing you can do. So so it is about being truthful, and that's one of the big things I think we pride ourselves on in Canmore is being honest with kids, like and sometimes it hurts us and sometimes it really helps us, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the downside of that and even with the uh, the ability to transfer in the NCAA now is that it makes adversity more avoidable, and and you and I both know how advantageous adversity can be if we can find our way through it instead of leaving it. You know, so, like, even if that's adversity is as a 16 or a 17 year old in your league that you know having a hard time getting in and out of the lineup. There might be a team down the road, like you said, that says hey, man, you're gonna be on our third line every night, come on over. Yeah, right, and that cherry, that grass is greener, like that sounds so good, right, like, oh, I do want to be there.
Speaker 2:But if you have someone like yourself that actually has a plan for you and this is where you need to be right now, please believe in me. You know it's not hurting you, it's helping you. As soon as you walk out that door, you've just hurt yourself because you haven't given yourself the opportunity to persevere. Through this mini obstacle that you have, you're losing the value of what hockey can provide. I don't know. Can you speak on that a little bit? How do you feel about the portal and all this stuff that's coming up now and after players.
Speaker 1:You're bang on. I think when you and I talk, if I talk with a family, I say listen, you've got four years at 60 games. You got 240 games. That's our plan 240 games to get you to the next level, you know, and that's going to take time. You're going to be, you know, healthy scratch. There's going to be some bad dates, there's going to be some good games, but we've got 240 of them.
Speaker 1:To prepare you to play at the next level is daunting to a lot of kids. They want it right now. They want to see, I want to score today and I want to be good tomorrow, whereas you and I both know that's not how it works. And so that development plan that we put in place and we talk about that with our players, like, listen, this is not an overnight fix here. If it was, you wouldn't be playing at our level. If you were the Sidney Crosby or let's use Patrick Marleau, patrick Martle, I mean, you know those guys in the world, we'd know about you. You know, connor McDavid could have played ring at his draft year and he would have got drafted first overall. Like, it's not about you know, it's not about you know, those guys are easy to identify. It's the other ones that say you're going to take some time. And if you accelerate that and you only need 150 games or you need 200, as opposed to the 240, the good news is we've got a 240 game plan and if you can accelerate that and get out of here by 130, then great. But if you need the extra 240, at least it's there and it should give players more of a mentality.
Speaker 1:But I think you're bang on with the adversity thing. That's one of the challenges we're faced with. The grass is always greener is a big struggle, you know. Again, there's. So the one thing I always tell people that they have to realize is, once you've left the minor hockey system, this is a business, it's a business and it's a big business. I mean, the Western Hockey League is huge business. You know, our league is still a business. It's not as big as that, but it's still a business. And so there's all sorts of decisions that are made on the business side that maybe young kids, young families don't realize.
Speaker 1:Right Like and right like. And that's where, like, yeah, I need you, I'm going to tell you what you want to hear. You're on the third line in can, or maybe the? Or the fourth line in camera, but you can be on the third line in our team and you think that's better. Well, there's a short-term play there and I think short-sightedness is a big challenge right now in the game and everybody wants it right now and wants to go and wants to move on. But the reality is you need time to develop and that's the only thing that is going to help you for sure is time. I mean, if you can accelerate it, great, but I hate the portal.
Speaker 2:Sorry to cut you off, but I think that track record of a team now I'm speaking more to the parents that are listening here and the players too right, like to do your homework on the team and there are programs that consistently develop guys, like as you're talking about, through that three-year window, four-year window, and where the players start is not where they finish and the players stay on the same team, like that's such a huge thing to watch for If you're trying to identify where to go as a parent and as a player, because there's lots of teams that don't they'll bring in guys in there If they don't perform in the first two months.
Speaker 2:You're out the window. Or you bring in the shiny new penny and all these guys are sitting on the bench and that's the culture that they have built. So I mean, the proof is in the history and the and of the pudding, right. So take a look and I do believe, like being in one spot, like me being in spokane for four years I didn't know how great that was until I became a pro and then I was everywhere right, like to be able to grow roots somewhere, to feel a part of something, to feel like you've grown up in something is uh is such a cool thing to be able to experience and if you get on the right junior program, man like that's, that's a massive opportunity yeah, and we always sit here like making junior hockey is one thing, it's finishing that's a whole nother thing.
Speaker 1:Right, like to go through the process and play, like you said, four years and and you know all the life lessons that you were taught from the spokane days and that you taught others. I mean that's an interesting, you know story. I told the story pods all the time when I, when I was playing in Spokane and you won't remember this, but we were playing in the old arena and I was just there for I'd come to my first camp and you know you were the hot item coming out of there, the best player, and everybody was, you know, florida draft, and everybody was excited and I I was walking down to practice. You had to go that long walk down off the dressing room right to the arena and this kid stops me and he asked me for my autograph and I was super embarrassed because I'm not a player that signs autographs. I have no idea. So I said no and I walked past this kid and I went on the ice by myself and I think you might have been second or third behind me coming on and you'd stopped to sign the kid's shirt and I didn't, and then came up to me and said hey, listen, you know. Yeah, that kid doesn't know who you are, but you're wearing the Spokane Chiefs jersey and until you don't wear that jersey, you're somebody. And I took that in and went you know, you're right. Like that was a what an opportunity to be a part of the Spokane Chiefs organization. And you're right, it wasn't Andrew Mill, that was the Spokane Chiefs logo that that kid wanted, but I was wearing the jersey. I learned that lesson real quick and I signed every single autograph I could, because once I left the Western League, no one's asked me for my autograph.
Speaker 1:So it's those life lessons, those skills, those developments I pass it on to my players. Like representing Canmore Eagles now in Canmore is so important to the hockey side, but also off the ice. You are part of the community. You're part of something and we take a lot of pride in the community. And I say it you heard me say it on hockey night in Canada like I can't guarantee you're going to play in the National Hockey League, but I can guarantee you're going to be an active member of a society somewhere and if we can teach you a little bit about that and how to become a better member of society. I think that's a huge accomplishment for us. We're going to do our best to help you get to the National League and play a pro or wherever it is you want to go, but the reality is, you know, when you come into a program that's committed to not just helping players develop on the ice but off the ice, I think that's a massive win for you know, the family and the player.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's the gift of a team sport like hockey, and I think hockey is the best at it when it's done right, absolutely yeah. The brotherhood in the room, you know the, the way you have to go to bat for each other, the way, the way you have to stick up for each other good, bad or indifferent, like with the personality structure that doesn't mean crap. I can't believe, I mean, what happened in Vancouver. It's such a weird thing I I've never experienced that in my life that there's some type of a personality dispute that just can't be. Uh, got over. But anyways, regardless, I'm right there with you. I mean, I think all the great things the game teaches us is used well beyond the days of trying to put a puck in the net.
Speaker 2:Just take a short break from my conversation with Andrew Millen to talk about the UMH 68, because it kind of makes sense. The UMH 68 Alberta edition, 2012, born Alberta edition, is coming to Can at this point in all of Alberta to our Best of Alberta event, which means the top 68 players is our goal. So please be watching for those in your inboxes. Sad state of affairs right now with my client management system, my CRM. It's sending emails to junk boxes. So if you happen to be in Alberta right now and you are waiting for your invitation, by all means check your junk mailbox. For some reason, filters are making it go in there for some people, which is unfortunate because I don't have phone numbers for a lot of players and plus, that makes it a lot longer to personally invite everybody through a phone call.
Speaker 2:So if I did have your number, I would be, I would be using it, but for most of you I don't. So, yes, check that out. We are going to Canmore and Canmore is such a great location. I'm so stoked over uh, over the facility that they have at the Canmore Eagles. They have, um, these really cool dressing room setups, which is which is a big piece of what the experience is like for the players at the UMH 68 Invitational, and the facility staff there at the Recreation Center has been fantastic. We're getting the workshops organized, we have all the dressing rooms in place, we have been able to secure a hotel there and a caterer, and everything is looking so fantastic for that event.
Speaker 2:Really excited to bring the first annual Alberta event to Canmore this spring. So, for those of you who don't know about the 68, it's available on the website, my website, upmyhockeycom. We are coming to Manitoba as well. We're having a 2011 division in Manitoba that will be held in Brandon. We are coming to Martinsville, saskatchewan, for a 2012 division and we are hosting a 2012 and a 2011 division in British Columbia. That'll be the third year we are running those events in BC and, due to the resounding success we've had in BC, we are expanding the brand to all of Western Canada. So super exciting times here at Up my Hockey with the UMH 68.
Speaker 2:Again, if you are in either one of those provinces and want to make sure that your player gets noticed, by all means you can refer them to a watch list form, which is on the website upmyhockeycom, to make sure that we have eyes on you and we'll give you some consideration. This is also the watch list is also an option for coaches out there that are listening. I know there's a lot of you. If you have a player that you want to refer, that you believe should be noticed in the top 68 category for their age group, by all means send in a referral form for them. We do take a lot of value from what coaches have to say, just like we just had this conversation with Andrew right that coaches matter, the integrity of what the coach says matters, and a coach willing to go to bat per se for for a player on their team uh tells me something. Uh tells me that the coach sees something in them and believe something in them, that uh, that they deserve this opportunity, and that is uh, that is weighty in the decision-making process. So, coaches, if you are out there and you want to go to bat for somebody to support your players, by all means. We'd love to hear about it.
Speaker 2:Now let's get back to the conversation with Andrew Milne. That's funny, I mean. I'm glad you told that story. That's great.
Speaker 2:I mean, one of the things that I talk with my minor hockey players, even like when I was coaching my oldest son at the U13 level you know the rep team in Vernon I got them involved with the U11 rep and the U9 rep practices.
Speaker 2:You know they would wear their Mustangs jersey which was a cool thing here in Vernon and and talk to them about, like for lack of a better word the brand of what that Mustangs meant and that, even though you guys are 12 years old, guess what A nine-year-old looks up to you. You are an example and every time you have that jersey on, even, or your jacket on, is that you're making an impression on somebody and you have the ability to do that. And uh, and I think when we use the game in that type of context to understand that there's things around us that are bigger than ourselves and that we have an influence over, like, it gives us confidence in one aspect and it also gives us this responsibility in another right that that we start thinking outside of just what's going on in our head.
Speaker 2:So, uh, thanks for thanks for sharing that. I'm glad, I'm glad.
Speaker 1:I think it's different yeah, well, I think even take it further, pods. Like I came into canmore my first year here and we had the canmore eagles junior, a hockey team, and then the minor hockey was called the ice cats and I just couldn't wrap my head around that. So we we've got these like five and six-year-olds that are looking up to a total different team, like when, in reality, like those five and six and seven-year-olds should have looked and said you know, I'm an Eagle, one day I can be part of the big Eagles. And you know it just sort of blew me away and I take that to that Spokane moment. It wasn. We can both laugh about it now. I wasn't signing the autograph because I was a good player. I was signing the autograph because I was wearing a Spokane Chiefs jersey and that kid looked up to me as a Spokane Chief and I had a sense of responsibility and I was taught that by yourself and Babs and Bill Peters and all the other guys that were there that said you know, you have a sense of responsibility here, andrew, to handle yourself properly and behave. And I wanted that kid to look up and potentially say he's going to play.
Speaker 1:So when I came to Canmore that was one of my first tasks was why are we two separate entities? And so I take a lot of pride in knowing that we, we eventually changed that to become the Canmore Eagles and, and you know, you see, our facility is branded with eagles. Those little kids look up to our eagles and, and you know, they, they, we had a skate with eagles yesterday after our game two o'clock game. We, we had a skate with the Eagles. There's 150 kids on the ice and they all want to play for the Canmore Eagles one day. So you know, for for my players it looks as like wow, I, I, my actions have consequences and these kids really look up to me, and I thought that was a huge, like I'll call it a win for the community of Canmore when we became the same and I think there's a lot of youth, we've got a kid on our team now.
Speaker 1:Our leading scorer, born and raised in canmore, played for the canmore eagles at when he was, you know, four and five and is now our leading scorer at 20. So you know, that's the, the path like you talked about with your, you know, you 13 team that's. We got to do more of that, in my opinion. We got to get those kids out more right, whether it's you know the pros, I think need to do it as much as they can too, and teach these kids like you, learn about all the different paths that everyone's done to get to where they get to, and it's. It used to be linear and it's not anymore. Every path is completely different well, it's such a grounding.
Speaker 2:It is a grounding thing, uh, being involved with younger age groups and and whatever level that be like. I already talked about, you know, 12 year olds working with nine year olds, that's a. That's a. That's a generation gap in in that, in that age group. Right like this is a. This is a big thing to look up to these players. Some of the players I work with in my mindset group that I call the inner circle, like the graduates of my program.
Speaker 2:We talked about gratitude the other day and ways we can give back to the game. Right Like this thing that we're taking a lot. It seems like, especially when you're younger. Right Like you're taking parents are writing checks and you're taking in all this information and all this opportunity and all these road trips and okay, well, so how do we give back? Yeah, you can give back with your effort, for sure. Yeah, you can give back with your enthusiasm.
Speaker 2:But the another way to give back is to like volunteer your time and to be a part of somebody else's journey, and there was a couple of players that did that, and and uh, and there was a couple of players that did that and it was like remarkable, because you hear it at an NHL level, pro level, when guys have kids.
Speaker 2:I never have had kids when I played pro, so my results and the wins and losses were the biggest thing in my day and in my week, right, there was nothing else bigger than that. And sometimes you can get too high and too low with that. Guys with kids, they come home. The kids don't give a shit, right, the kids. Kids want to see dad and they're pumped that he's there and it levels you out, right, so that in its own way of like these, these adolescents, these 15, 16 year olds going to a youth practice is a way of that. It levels them out. You mean what they're doing and their chase and their journey and they want to be here and they want to be here. It just connects you to the moment and you're allowing yourself to give back to a game. I think it keeps you grounded and I think anytime we can have an opportunity to consciously do that, not be told to do it it's that's a way to build character as well.
Speaker 1:I agree. I agree, I mean, and it also sort of gets a lot of those kids to remember that it is a game, like it's a lot of fun, that's the best time when you're having fun, like when you're having fun, and then and you realize that the smiles on those kids face when a 15 year old goes out and practices with a 10 year old like doesn't seem like that much you know difference, but it's huge for those 10 year olds like oh, wow, that's, I want to get to where that kid got to, where that player got to, and so good, so good, so big yeah, he's sick, he's dirty, he's all these things I mean.
Speaker 1:But we see that in the western league right, like you know, we were fortunate because, like I said, you were a little older than me but we have guys you know I mean could use Sir Jack or Carter Alley or, you know, is it Dimitri Leonov? I moved in and, like you, learn. You just like wow, that guy is so good. But you learn because you're part of it. And then they spend time, you know, like you did after practice with working on a skillset that maybe I never thought about, like that.
Speaker 1:Like you know, when Babs tells you something, you know he's always got that snarl and he's he's, he's mad about something that didn't go well. But when a player tells you, it's really resonates a lot more than maybe your coach. Or like, hey, you know you're having a tough time getting the puck off the wall and Babs isn't going to be happy about that. Let's maybe try this and you just learn a skill set from the players. We do it in the western league between the 16 and 20 year olds. Why don't we do it between the, you know, the 16 and the 10 year olds?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, within the community yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree, and it connects, it connects, it connects the community and it connects them to each other. And I, I think, uh, there's so much age division now too, like it's even gone into singular age groups that you're never exposed to, like that older guy, those older conversations, those older skills or the younger side of it too. Right now you have to put on the hat of being the leader and the guy who's responsible. So I, I do like trying to find and create situations where that still exists, even in our school system. I'm diverging a little bit here, but like they have their own freaking uh fields that they can play on, like grade six is here, grade seven's there, and you can'tollinate, like at some of the schools.
Speaker 1:I mean, I can't fathom that and how that's good for anybody, but anyways, it must have happened to you at a young age. I mean, you were obviously a pretty skilled, good player in the 90s when it was a tough time to play in that time, right, like it was physical, it was hard. But you, I don't know, pick a guy like, uh, you know, ty jones or a younger guy came in that was a good player and go, holy cow, I didn't see what he's doing with the puck. I should try that. Like you know what I mean, like you must have saw that in your development and gone.
Speaker 1:You can learn just as much from the young guys. They're more skilled probably than you were. Right, the 15 year old that came in when you were 15 was more skilled than you and you're kind of going oh, I learned that skill I. I learned from the young guy, like man, the confidence with the puck. I mean we see it now with the national hockey league right, that those young guys, like the zegras, are trying michigans and stuff that the older guys would never even thought doing, and so it is an interesting sort of. It works both ways, right, the old guys teaching the young and the young teaching the old well, lessons are everywhere.
Speaker 2:right, that's one of the things that I talk about with my players all the time. It's like if you, if you learn to be a learner, right like, like and I think you can, like Holy smokes, talk about compounding your development, right, like, it's all around you If you want to ask the right questions and look for it, you know, if you want to you want to close your eyes and have the blinders on, then it's going to take you a little bit longer, and that was one of the things that I learned, unfortunately, um, from not doing.
Speaker 2:it is I didn't ask enough questions, especially in the nhl level, like I was so worried about like fitting in, you know, and being a guy and being there, that I I couldn't get into the comfort zone of like hey, matt sundin, like how do you do that? Or like what?
Speaker 2:how do you prepare? Or, like my god, like you know, being surrounded by that level of talent and not really dedicating yourself to extracting as much from them as you can is so foolish, right, but again, it's a confidence thing right. That's a confidence thing and an understanding of the social dynamic, of how to do it in a way that you know you don't need to be embarrassed about it, it's actually helping you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, interesting on that point. I went to the coaches conference in Columbus. It was a draft in Columbus some years ago and I was with Todd and a bunch of the Todd was with Detroit at the time and Detroit's like the Harvard of hockey, when you get all those guys together, right. And we had this coaches conference where you got to break off into groups and I ended up with Todd McClellan sitting at a table with Todd and it was, you know, as Todd was there, there was just a whole bunch. Babs was sitting there with us and you know, eiserman was at the table and then scotty bowman happened to be sitting right beside me, just because todd was at the table, and so we're chatting as a group and they're chatting I'm listening, obviously and scotty leans over and sort of says like where do you coach? And started asking me questions and what we do. And you know, I thought that in itself was unbelievable. But then we proceeded to talk about you know how do we develop as coaches because you know, in my, in my level, we're so competitive with one another I can't phone you up as the, the opposition say hey, pods, your power play is killing us. Like what? What do you do. And how do I beat that? Because you're not going to tell me you want to continue to beat me. So as coaches, we struggle with this. Like you know what do I do? And and and Scotty flipped over a business or a piece of paper. He wrote his number in the car. He says you call me with any questions you have. I'll be more than happy to help you, because and he was coaching at the time this was Scotty's era like that's what Scotty was going to give back to coaches.
Speaker 1:And and you know I can relate that here in Canmore we're struggling with our diesel in the beginning of the year and we're kind of going back and forth with terminology and what to do and how to control it. And you know, as a staff, there's three of us in the office. We couldn't get it sorted out and you know I thought, well, who can we talk to about this? And I thought this was a time when Todd wasn't working and I said, well, I know a guy that's got nothing to do today. So we ended up phoning Todd and we got him on the phone for two hours with the coaching staff in my office going through it, and I mean two hours of his. You could just hear the passion, you could just hear the. This is what you need to do and this is how we do it and this is the terminology and I mean, you know, today our goals against is the best in the league. Um, you know. So, you know, detroit's on a bit of a heater well, defensively.
Speaker 1:So those are the things where you talk about the development side from both sides, like as a player and as a coach. Right, that's a huge opportunity. I feel confident to phone todd and say, hey, what do I do here? Do here? Or phone Babs, or phone Dean, chanel, or phone these guys and say, you know, you guys have a great power play. What are you doing? Like why can, how can we beat that? And that's you know both as a player. You just said it like you should have asked more questions when you're in Toronto and those there's, and now I've learned that as a coach, I should ask more questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, questions are fantastic and I think cause, and I think cause I've done quite a bit of work there in the psych, you know the psychology aspect of that and I find that a lot of times players don't ask a question. Because if you ask a question it means you don't know the answer, which then means that maybe you're not smart or you're exposing yourself right. There's a level of vulnerability there, um, but that's such bullshit anyways, like that whole thing in of itself is bullshit, like you need to get more information, which means you have to ask questions and and yes, there are some people say there's, there's not such a thing as a bad question. I kind of think there is. Like, sometimes you know, if the answer was just just told you by the coach and you know you ask the same question again, that's a, it shows you weren't listening right. But for the most part, like you know, be thoughtful, be introspective, be curious and if you're a curious athlete and you ask good questions, boy, like I know, as a coach, I love athletes that ask good questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know what I think. To go back to that point of no such thing as dumb question, I always say to my guys, like there's a reason he asked that question. You know he's lacking confidence. He wants to hear the he knows what I'm going to say, but he wants to hear what I have to say, just to resonate that he's right and he's confident, he feels good. And I think that's an important piece of the development side. Is that, like when they ask a question? You know, a lot of times I always say, like why did he ask that question as opposed to you know, he knew the answer Well, answer Well, he wanted to hear that, or he wanted to validate that, or he wanted to feel good about himself.
Speaker 1:Because you're bang on, like that's, and we can get into that a little later, but you know what you're doing with the mindset. Stuff is phenomenal because that's one of our biggest challenges as coaches is the mindset. Like they just don't have enough of that. We, we all toe drag, we all one-timer, we all, you know, work on skills, but none of us work on when things don't go well. And I'll tell you right now junior hockey is a young guy, as you know it's not going to go well and it's how you get out of the not going well phase to get to the good phase. And that's I always tell guys. We're peaks and valleys all year, right, and our job as coaches to make sure the valleys don't last long and that we can get back up on a peak. And that's a real interesting part of how we have to coach. Now is the mindsets of players and development side of that and what we're dealing with on a daily basis.
Speaker 2:How do you do that? And I don't mean to put you on the spot with this, but like, yeah it's, I think people, I think the players are arriving at the party in a different spot than, say, 20 years ago, you know. So some of these basic, maybe mental toughness skills are, are, are, are less, are less available, uh, and so there would be a different approach. I'm sure than you, than you walking into a locker room when you were a 19 year old yourself or an 18 year old yourself, that you can't really compare the it's not apples to apples. So how do you handle that, as now, as a coach, gm, to try and give your players these tools?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I listened to your podcast with Ryan Reeves and he made the comment there's no participation awards in his house, right? And he made the comment on your podcast there's none in mine either. And I think that's an interesting approach. That, like just showing up doesn't allow you to be successful here. You know, and I think there's a once we get rid of that entitlement phase of like, well, I'm here and it's mine and it's I deserve to be here and, as opposed to, I've earned it, and I think that's part of what we talk about every day is that, you know, there's a we're pretty loyal to our players here in Camelot. That's something we take a lot of pride in, but that's also a lot of pressure on our coaching staff to make sure that we help them through those downsides. We talked about it earlier that you know, when you don't produce in the next, in the next two weeks, three weeks, they just get ready and the new guy comes in and they start all over again, whereas ours, our philosophy, is we want to work with the players, because I think they all inherently want to do right, they want to make the coach happy, they want to be successful. We just have to work them through the downside. And and hey, this morning, pods, we've got, we've got.
Speaker 1:Our fourth line is we've had seven goals scored against us in two games. All seven have been against our fourth line. Um, so the easy answer is not playing right. But that doesn't help anybody, and so we had him in this morning working with him on just little details. I mean it's I said you've had seven goals against and it's probably about nine seconds of bad decisions, right for seven goals again.
Speaker 1:So how do we eliminate that? How can we create that? You know, how can we make them better? You know we can't give up on them, because it's not, this is not the philosophy. But they also have to take some accountability. They're just so beat up up right now. Every time they touch the puck, they're so scared they're going to get scored.
Speaker 1:On that. We need to sort of change their mindset a bit and like you're good players, you're really good players, Like you guys are doing the right thing. It's just you know that split second decision is wrong, or it's just costing you or a bounce or a bump or this and it to that we would. We wouldn't be talking about it. But it is a mindset and that's where we talked about this morning as a staff, the more I think players need to spend more time doing mindset work, like like you talked about, and you know we spend hours on one-timers and practice and skills and toe dragging and all this stuff. We don't spend anywhere near enough time working on when things don't go right. How am I going to get out of it? How am I going to get out of it?
Speaker 2:I love that, that, yeah, I love that. I think part of the piece for me is, when I'm working with athletes is like the recognition of knowing that they're in a place that they need to get out of. You know, not recognizing it as this thing that's happening to them. It's actually happening for them. You know, and now and now, I need to be a problem solver, a solution finder that you were talking about. Right, that's just like a problem on the ice, like now you have this thing that you're identifying yourself as a, as a solution finder. Right, I'm going to be a problem solver here, and it changes the mindset completely just in that one moment, by understanding that there's a difference, there's a different choice to be made in this scenario, and I love what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Earn it because, uh, again, the more that we can wire that in, I think, not only from a cultural side, but even as, like, a family culture side you know that you get what you've earned and when you put in the work, in whatever capacity it is, and you see yourself getting better, that's because you earn that and because you earn that skill set. Now you get to play this many minutes and because you continue to work, you get to play here. I think that is all part of that pathway. You know that we were talking about the development pathway, and when you find that in a junior team, that is what you want and not just the like I said, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and they're going to give me more minutes, being the same player that I am over here, I don't know. I just think that there's so many layers to that earning it. You know that that allows you to have this confidence that all these players want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's trust. I think, as a coach, you say earn. I say trust, like if I know I can trust you and again, you're going to make mistakes within that trust, but I trust that the decisions you make are within the best interest of the team. And you know, and if I know that, and I'm going to work with you because I trust that your mindset is right, that you're trying your best to do it, but you struggle with guys that you said well, I don't quite like what the coach is telling me, so I'll go to the next coach and he's told me he's going to give me more and if he doesn't, then it's his fault. And we see that all the time. We're blaming everybody, right, as opposed to blaming ourselves, like I tried to tell those guys this morning don't want to get scored on. I trust you're trying to do what's right, but we're making some poor decisions and this leads to that and that leads to this goal against. And if our players know that again it goes back to coaching If they know that we have trust in them, they're going to play with more confidence, they're going to feel better about themselves.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine as a player? I mean, I went through as a player because I wasn't very good. You didn't. You had the puck on your stick and were able to gain possession and do things, and in order, I'm assuming in order to get away with stuff, you had to make mistakes, right, and you knew that. You know, in my game I wasn't going to be back on the ice if I made a simple mistake, whereas, you know, other guys are giving a little more creativity, but it works out and majority of your learning is done in failure, right, like you've learned that it doesn't, it doesn't come off. When, when the toe drag works, you know, I'm the first to say, hey, great, that worked out for you, but the reality is that's not going to work. You know, nine out of 10 times, right, so let's avoid that, like you know. Let's. Let's avoid that. Let's try to figure out another solution to that or another way around that.
Speaker 2:Cause, when it doesn't work, it's multiple times behind the bench, where that you know. The one that comes to mind is this is player that would always drive the puck wide and always make a wraparound like attempt right and and you know and, and one out of you know 15 times it would go in and and jacked and celebration, and every time I'd be like, oh, I love that you scored and you know really great job there. But just want you to understand that that was the wrong play.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or, or what other tool can we get? My game is the golf analogy what other club can we put in your bag? You can't use the driver on every shot, right? You need to have different clubs and you need to have a different tool and a different idea. And I think that you're paying on in that, like we deal with that all the time. Guys have those habits right and it works. So it's going to work again. It's going to work again, it's going to work again and eventually we have to say that to when it does work.
Speaker 1:Like imagine if you had a whole bunch of different skill sets that you could utilize in that situation, whether it's a cut to the middle, whether it's a quick outside shot, whether it's delay, whether it's a drop pass, whatever it is, you know it'd be nice to have those because, again, your level I'm assuming that was minor hockey you do that 15 times and you know better than anybody pods. We've watched video and all of a sudden we see that happening. We're going to have our D go straight to the back post. Yeah, you know you're. You're going to get buried pretty hard at our level because we've watched it and we know what your tendencies are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. You talked about connections. Well, you didn't actually talk about them, but that was the connection that I made when, when you said that a game with Todd you ended up going to play pro with somebody that Todd knew. Now, that is something that I love to trumpet and to talk about, and it's not favoritism, but it's about building connections, right, it's about building a network, it's about having somebody trust you You've used that word, right. So for some reason, todd saw something in you that he wanted to get behind, right, like he was a fan of you and, uh, and and and again, maybe not as the hockey player, but as the person and saw something in you that, hey, this, this, this guy can go on and he can do something. Those things really matter a lot in our business. How did you think consciously or unconsciously did you build that trust with todd? And? And how do you do that now as a coach, with your players?
Speaker 1:that's a good point. Like I I don't know if I consciously did it I just I knew that there was a guy that cared about me and the way I played and how he could help me. And I feel like you know, when he would say something to me at the time as a player I was like, well, I got to trust that he's got my back because he's done some things to show me. And so you know, when I was talking about going overseas to play and and todd found a an opportunity for me to go it was a friend of his that they played in the saskatoon blades together in the late 80s uh, his name's randy smith and randy was playing over there and was was almost like the wayne gretzky of hockey in the uk at the time. He was the best player and how it worked. So funny, I go over there and play and had a year of playing with randy and then randy was sort of retiring and wanting to get into coaching. You know he ended up getting the job in Swift Current where I'd just been for the last three years. So you know it was sort of my call back to them to say here's a guy who knows the game. He's coming back, he's from Saskatoon and I couldn't agree with you more, paz.
Speaker 1:The game is is everybody's sort of I'm not going to say equal, but but I think you you know 70, 80, 90 points. You know what separates them from the next guy and it's all character. It's all character and it's all you know. Somebody wants to help somebody along the way. I tell guys a lot, you know. It's what you know, but it's more importantly of who you know. And if that guy leaves and says you know what I remember, that player is a pretty hard-working, honest, integral kind of piece of the team and was really willing to do whatever. I'll give them an opportunity post hockey, or maybe that's still in hockey, but I mean you can just see that all the way through. I mean I see a ton of my time here in Canmore. I've been here now for a long time and I've done more.
Speaker 1:You know reference checks for players than I could have ever imagined in my life and it's always about, you know, that time that I had them as a player and you and I both talk about work ethic and accountability and teamwork and these are all things you're going to need moving forward in life and you know, if I can remember a player that played for me or that I played with, that I go yeah, what a good teammate, what a good, you know guy that I would go to bat for at the time. And yeah, a lot of years have passed, but I remember him when we played and you know the integrity that player had was something I could get behind and that that's something I think, todd and again, you know he's taking a little responsibility now in my career and has given me good advice along the way and I take it, you know, wholeheartedly. Like you know, maybe with three kids now and in a beautiful place like this, maybe it isn't in my best interest to jump into a coaching job that you know may be disrupting the family a little bit, or you know that time with the players and I'll be honest with you, babs was probably one of the best for that I had a great opportunity. I went to Patrick Martel's retirement game in San Jose and Babs was there. Babs had Patty at the Olympics and went to bat for Patty both 2010 and 2014.
Speaker 1:And so they have a bit of a special relationship and obviously being in Toronto together and I went there and I got a good opportunity to sit with babs for you know, a couple hours and chat about his path and his career and you know, obviously he's been a super successful coach but that family is so important. That was his advice, like you know don't sacrifice that. The time you have with the kids is so short. It's so important because you slay such a foundation, uh, as a father and as a parent, that that it's important to stay involved in them as much as you can. And I think that was something I really took from him when that conversation that was only a couple years ago, you know, to stay involved in the family and that sort of solidified the things Todd was telling me and solidified my decisions to maybe stay in Canada until the kids grow up a bit yeah, yeah, good for you.
Speaker 2:The uh, the idea we talked about this just in person. I remember like the idea that when you have a player on your team that somebody's interested in whether it be at the next level or whatever the case may be that you need to give an honest response to whatever that is right. And, yeah, you're not going to throw a player under the bus, but you need to be honest, because your recommendation or your word is is one of the most valuable things you can have. Right, that's, that's the integrity you given an honest, an honest answer. When players talk to me about, like, whether they need an agent or whether they need an advisor or that type of stuff, I've, I've no issue with advisors and agents. They do, they do a fantastic job.
Speaker 2:But if you're getting somebody for a recruitment style of you know, if that's the reason why you're getting one, your coach is the number one guy that you should be worried about. Like, what is he going to say when the phone rings? Or is he willing to pick up the phone for you without anyone calling him? Right? Like that's, like I'm sure that you can relate to that, like when a coach will call you or you call a coach and it's a ringing endorsement from somebody that you trust, like it's almost a no-brainer, because you have to trust people in this industry, right? Because you're not going to be able to see him, you're not going to be able to know what's going on. So can you just talk about that aspect a little bit and how players should be trying to forge those relationships with the people that are making the decisions on ice time?
Speaker 1:yeah, you're, you're bang on, and I again, that lesson to me was learned. I coached Western Hockey League at 21. And so I coached some players that I played with and I have a lot of guys I can remember. A great player in Lane, ulmer, was a friend of mine and we were good friends. He played in Swift Current the whole time.
Speaker 1:And you know, when I got asked by an NHL scout when I was coaching, you know, tell me about Lane, and of course I was excited, for I want to tell him everything I could tell and make. You know, make up as much. And you know cause I liked Lane and I and you know the advice I got from a guy named Brad McEwen who was in Swift at the time, was be careful what you say here, andrew, because that scout could be the general manager of a team one day and if you lie to him or you, you know, try to give him false advice. Then, and they were going to sign him and I wanted Lane to sign, I thought it would have been awesome, right, great for me, great for everybody, and and I did, you know he did sign. So I did give him the recommendation he needed. But I think I learned that lesson right there. Like you said, that integrity, and I maybe won't give all the information to a scout or, uh, you know another coach, but I, but I definitely will give the right information that I can give to help support the player. And you're bang on. I mean, that's the agent game. You said you don't have an issue with that. I, I'm a little bit, I'll be a little more political, but I do have an issue with with getting representation for someone. You pay to tell me everything good about you, right, you pay somebody to tell me. I always tell my players you should just get your mom or dad to phone a grandma or grandpa because they love you no matter what you do, right, whereas you know oftentimes, you know I have to give the honest opinion yeah, he's great here, he's exceptional here, this is where he's lacking, this is the things that he doesn't do really well. Or, you know, if I was a coach, this is what I, not the nature of the business, right? So you're, you're bang on in the sense to try to create as many positives you can with your coach, like whether it's your work, ethic, off the ice and I can spin, or sell, or, or we always talk about selling our players. I can sell you to somebody with you know, fantastic work.
Speaker 1:I got a parent call me, you know, last year and said he's the hardest working player in the gym. He was trying to sell me his kid. I said he's the hardest working player in the gym. He says, yeah, he works out. Uh, you know, five days a week at 10 30 in the morning at this gym in Calgary. And I said, oh, really, so interestingly, you go to the gym with him every morning at 10 30. Well, no, well then how do you know he's the hardest working player in the gym? Well, he tells me okay, interesting, Well, they all tell me that. So I have to decipher what they're telling me. So this is an agent or a parent. Why, he tells you I need to see it and the integrity of the parent is not there. Right, you're going to support your kids no matter what. So so I would say, when an agent comes in and he's trying to tell me something, but you're paying him to tell me, that's a big difference then.
Speaker 1:And your coach, who's not getting paid, you know, and says gym, because you know, or maybe little johnny isn't the most polite kid off the ice or you know, has that.
Speaker 1:You know he loves to blame guys when he, when things don't go his way, he likes to blame guys, and so I I've always said to our guys just keep as many positives and as many things. You know in my sort of realm that I can relate to coaches and scouts and people that I can, because everywhere you go, somebody's watching you and everything you do somebody's watching and everybody is the hardest working player in the gym, everybody's the best player, everybody is in this level of of competitiveness, and so the reality is I can see on the ice, I can watch a video and tell if a player can play the game at this level. What I can't do is tell what they're like off the ice. And that's where I really put a lot of trust into the coaching staff and I think you're bang on and coaches are the ones that are going to give you the honest opinion because at the end of the day, they know if they want to continue coaching, they're going to have to be careful about their word.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the personal development side that I'm so passionate about Right, like that's the piece that people don't connect to being advancing through the hockey aspect, right and right, and it can't be faked.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing, like, when it comes in and disingenuous or inauthentic, like that's the worst, that's even worse than somebody just being lazy, like I'd hate to somebody to pretend not to be lazy but really is lazy.
Speaker 2:It's like that drives me nuts. But if you actually have these intangibles that you've been working on, that you understand that there's value there and it comes, it comes through as something that you're working on or towards uh boy, like that's the real deal, like that's what guys want. They want guys that they know want to improve and want to get better and understand that there's value there, like then. Then, like you have that puzzle. Not only does it help you in that office uh branding scenario that we're talking about you know people are looking and watching and who's going to pick up the phone but it also helps you in your development on the ice as a teammate and as an individual player. So parents out there don't ever underestimate the personal development side players as well. It's a such a big piece of the puzzle and it can be the differentiator that you need to get yourself into that next door.
Speaker 1:It's almost more so. Pods Like it's almost more so now, because everybody's pretty good, everybody can skate, everybody. So, pause, like it's almost more so now, because everybody's pretty good, everybody can skate, everybody can shoot, everybody's got skills. It's the other things that are going to separate the players like easily, because you know, I always jokingly say every coach above you is a better coach and that's what they all believe, right, so well, yeah, okay, he doesn't.
Speaker 1:He doesn't shoot the puck very well, but his work ethic is second to none. Well, I can, because we can work on those things that aren't very good. But if you say to me, yeah, he doesn't shoot the puck very well, but you know he doesn't work at it very hard and I don't think he will, well, then we're out, you know. So I'll take a, I'll take a less, you know, a real hard shot but doesn't want to work on improving or get it through or accuracy is down. And I'll take a player who, well, you might be the best player at that time, in that situation, at that moment, but, like you alluded to earlier, my job is to forecast who's going to be the best player. And the work ethic, you know, the willingness to be coach. Coachability is another huge one that we talk about, and listening and hearing and then trusting the coach that's almost more important sometimes than the actual skills the player has.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I believe it. One more short break from the conversation with Andrew Mill and to tell you how excited we are for the 25-26 season to begin here at Up my Hockey. I have been bringing on associate coaches and we are building programs in the background and we are ready to support the association or academy that you are serving. This is, as I mean, it just keeps coming up time and time again that you are serving. This is, I mean, it just keeps coming up time and time again.
Speaker 2:What is Andrew Milne saying on this podcast? Over and over again? That the mindset development component is something that is overlooked and it is something that players need, maybe more so than ever. Yet we spend all this time on skill development for players and all this money on ice time, yet we aren't investing into the personal development and the mental fitness side of the player. Well, Up my Hockey solves that problem for your team, for your player or for your association or your academy. These are tailored programs that are delivered in a way that players are receiving the information.
Speaker 2:It is not workshop-based. Workshop-based programs for young athletes do not work anymore. Players do not have the attention span to sit for 60 minutes and to be lectured to and in hopes that they are going to apply something from that 60 minutes Up. My Hockey does it in a way that they are familiar with Short-form content delivered to their device on their own time and in their own convenience, when we have a coaching call after they've learned the material, after they've done the assignments, so we can make sure that the information has been digested and metabolized and help them take action steps and make these things actionable and executable. That's a huge difference. It's a thing to rally your team around, it's a thing that your players can grow through your association with, and it takes the formality and the extra burden off your coaches to make sure that they're supplying this type of training to their players. So why don't you look up upmyhockeycom, see if you can throw your hat in the ring for the 24 or 25, 26 season and get your players and your teams the training that they need to help them not only be their best players as individuals, but also help them be a more cohesive, structured, resilient team that is going to be more successful on the ice.
Speaker 2:Now let's get back to the conversation with Andrew Millen. Now, let's get back to the conversation with Andrew Millen. We should talk about Hockey Day in Canmore and your involvement with that. I mean, that was a whirlwind. It was a big show for a small town. How did maybe just walk everyone through my American listeners as well what Hockey Day in Canada is all about and what it's trying to do?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's just basically a celebration of the game of hockey in Canada. You know, sportsnet it's sponsored by Scotiabank, but Sportsnet picks a location every year and Ron McLean and the hockey night in Canada panel come to town and host from that venue and all seven Canadian teams play that day on air, you know, and you just celebrate the game from all the stories about the game that we love and everything. And so Canmore was sort of the host city for that, the 25th anniversary of Scotiabank Hockey Day in Canada to celebrate the game we love, and I mean Ron is. I mean everybody in Canada obviously knows who Ron McLean is and the icon and the American listeners probably. You know, we'll find out real quick. Ron is an absolute, you know, will find out real quick. Ron is an absolute, you know, I say savant. His memory is phenomenal. His passion for the game, his, his, his knowledge, his, his willingness to give time to everybody was phenomenal and, um, you know, he just absolutely loves the game of hockey and loves everybody involved in it and feels like there's a place for everybody and it was great to have the, the panel here and and get a chance to, to see them on a daily basis and what they do.
Speaker 1:You know we're here sort of Tuesday all the way through until Saturday broadcast day and you know a whole bunch of events go into that. We celebrate hockey at every level. We had minor hockey, kids running clinics, you know, tons of NHL guys back to support the clinics, and on ice and on the pond with Ron and sledge hockey and female hockey. We had a ref's clinic. We had everything you can possibly think about in the game of hockey going on throughout the town of Canmore for five days. So it was definitely a lot, you know.
Speaker 1:Then we had on broadcast day. Not only did all NHL teams play, but we had a U18 game going on here in town. Then we had a U sports female game going on and then our game was sort of in the evening of that night. So there was a lot of hockey going on. There's a lot of of of celebration in the game, but it was also a ton of fun. Like you know, the opportunities to get to, to meet and greet the stanley cup was here. The lineup for that never ended. Um, you know we hosted the 32 thoughts podcast here with elliot and kyle koskis. Yeah, which is really cool, um, and just listening to those guys talk. I mean Glenn Sater was in town and went on the podcast and just different people that are involved in the game and then celebrating Canmore. So it was a huge event and a ton of fun.
Speaker 2:That's cool, yeah, and you had a really big role in that, I know, in a volunteer aspect, so thank you for doing that, and it takes a lot of people behind the scenes to pull something like that off. So I know there's probably a lot of problems or solutions that you're finding in the last hours there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, the event is so large you really have a tough time understanding the magnitude of that event with the broadcast and the panel and hosting and everything they were doing. And I think a lot of people in Canmore you know knew the event but didn't quite know the magnitude of the event until it went off on Saturday. And I thought, you know, of course we had a beautiful day. You know, I think that I can resonate with the F-18 flyover that we had go right through Canmore and just showcase how beautiful the town was. That was one of the only times I was outside where I got to see that, but the day worked out perfectly. We had a little bit of overcast in the day before and then when broadcast day hit it was blue skies and showcased our community pretty well. Yeah, what a special place pretty well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what a special place. Uh, if I mean with the celebration, I I do. I do believe there's a, there's a, a plethora of great things about our game, and we all, we're always trying to grow it and we always know that there's things that need to be improved. What if you could? If you could, uh, put put something in each bucket there, like what, what's? What do you love about the game as far as, like, what's going well right now with the game and our place in it? And and what do you love about the game as far as, like, what's going well right now with the game and our place in it? And and what do you think needs to be improved from a, from a hockey level?
Speaker 1:oh, I think at the amateur level I mean there's more involvement. I think there's a lot of companies getting involved. I know ccm ran a uh ran a great learn to play program you know here where they were bringing new canadians in and teaching them how to play hockey and and try to expose them. I mean all the financial side of hockey is huge, right, and now I think the more people we can get playing the game, at whatever capacity, it's great. And so CCM came in and did a great program here in Scotiabank, hockey Day, where they brought in 15 kids that are new to hockey, taught them a little bit about how to get dressed and the equipment and then actually gave them the equipment. So now we've got 15 new Canadians in Canmore that now have full sets of equipment that that will be hockey players eventually. And I think that part of the game is great.
Speaker 1:Hockey Alberta did one, you know, in partnership with Scotiabank, where they brought in, you know, a bunch of kids that aren't aren't necessarily exposed to hockey on a regular basis and brought them into Canmore, went on the ice, got to tour around the facility, got to see the Stanley Cup, meet some alumni, celebrities. I mean just to grow. That game is super important. I think that's great. We're seeing it all over Canada where everybody's getting exposed to the game. We don't want to make it an elite sport. We don't want to make it out of reach financially for everyone to get involved. So I think that was huge for me to see that On that side. That's the positive side, I think, of where hockey's going On the that side, you know that's the positive side, I think where hockey's going. On the negative side, I think at the elite levels we're maybe seeing a little bit too much uh, individual focus on that as opposed to still the team aspect. And you know I'll say before, like, I think kids are playing for points, uh, and that's just that's.
Speaker 1:The devastating part of this is, you know we talked about earlier how much teamwork and hard work and being on a team and respect and integrity all these things are a part of the development of youth. You know, when we play for points, I think that's a bit of a challenge that we're going to have to avoid. And you know there's a big misconception that points equal success and that's just not the case and that's something that I think we have to sort of at the elite level coaches, in my opinion at the minor levels, believe that if they win at all costs that that'll give them success. And I just really harp on the fact that if you develop, you're going to have success. I don't care who wins. You know the Bantam AAA league. I want to see who's developing and sometimes you have to sacrifice some wins for development and that's absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know, the idea that we should get behind is we're here to develop hockey players and move them on, and I think behind is we're here to develop hockey players and move them on um, and and I think that if coaches can understand the development path is so important, I think we'll have a better long-term play for hockey players. We sort of weed guys out because they didn't have the success that that they thought they should have at the the you know, under 18 level and they quit and they're not playing long-term hockey because, oh, I only made the double a team and there's no chance I'm going to play at the next level if I play AA, which is completely false. You know, I talked about it earlier. When someone develops we can't control, but in order to develop, you've got to be playing the game. In order to be playing the game. You've got to love playing the game and you've got to be enjoying what you're doing, and that's where something we have to get back to, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:We should tell the listeners like so we were talking about this, the growth of the game, and you know Junior Hockey League being a business and sometimes, you know, different opportunities arise depending on where you're at. You were telling me the story about those tour groups coming through in the summer, can you? I think that's just a riot, so maybe explain what that's all about.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you know, when you look at junior hockey it used to be an eight month a year business and it's it's no longer, it's a 12 month a year business. And so, you know, here in Canmore we just sort of fished around with the summer months seeing just tour buses coming through the Valley here in Canmore, banff, and looking for activities and things to do and obviously, like hiking and being outdoors is great. But Canadian pastime is hockey. And so we sort of spawned this program where we want to teach people about Canada's pastime and give them a little bit of information. It's the summer months but people come to Canada and they want to have a hockey experience. Right, that's part of being in Canada is understanding hockey.
Speaker 1:So we do that, we give them a hockey experience and you know, we give them about a 45-minute presentation on hockey. We talk some culture, some history, some superstition. We then tour them through the dressing room where we talk again about the, the history of the dressing room, the superstitions in the dressing room, the, the seating plan, the logos you know how they behave in the dressing room. And then, and then we actually dress them and head to toe equipment and take them out on the ice for what could be a twirl or could be a photo op or as much as they can do.
Speaker 1:I this is people that have never seen hockey before, so getting the equipment on it, you know, getting dressed, is about a 35, 45 minute process because they just don't know what those wear, but it seems to be a ton of fun, you know. And again they come into Canada and they see the beauty of Canada and Canmore and then all of a sudden they all say that you know, in order to come and leave Canada, you have to have a hockey experience of some sort, and so we take them through that and I think that's something that's super unique for us, but it also, on one side, helps offset the bottom line and keep the budgeting going for our team, but also to teach people about hockey and gain hockey fans as much as we can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I think that's so cool. I mean I love it because it just makes so much sense, like from a puzzle piece standpoint. I mean, nobody's on the ice, you're not using it, a lot of the players aren't there, right, but so the ice is in. You have all these, you've all these tourists rolling through that want something, and then you created this, this environment, that that is a that's a valuable one, and then, and then go figure that people actually pay you to do it. Would love to be in that room to see, to see a bunch of tourists trying to put on hockey gear. Is it new stuff or is it like old, stinky stuff?
Speaker 1:hopefully you give them the old, stinky stuff to be part of the experience when I started, it was the players gear which, as you know, is not very pretty and it didn't smell great and and, as we've learned over the years, I mean we've had to get new equipment and make sure it's not because, hey, the players don't want anyone touching their gear. You know how superstitious they are and, yeah, some of the guys like their gloves soaking wet, some guys like to wear wet gear, some guys, like you know. So we, we learned real quickly. We got off the bus one night.
Speaker 1:Our bus broke down on one of these programs, were coming back from fort murray and by the time we got home it was about 7.30 in the morning and the gear was completely frozen, solid, and you know, the program ran at 9. And so I opened the dressing room door at 9 o'clock, just as the gear thawed after a game played the night before, and I didn't know what to say Even myself. It didn't smell very good and this group's standing there and a couple of people are like really plugging their noses, and I just sort of said, like that's the odor of success. We won last night. That's what it's going to take to be successful in junior hockey. And we learned at that point. We got to get our own equipment.
Speaker 2:So you do run it during the season then.
Speaker 1:A very few of them. We run a couple of them here and there for special groups. Like we might run 10 during the year, during the year. It's almost easier during the year because all the players are here and they have a riot too right. Like we have 50 sets of gear that we can pull down and take and dress and the players think this is hilarious, like something they've done since they were two or three and they're teaching you know a 45 year old, you know Australian how to put on equipment is just hilarious and they love it. So it's it's fun for both groups we run.
Speaker 2:Maybe you know maybe a dozen of them during the season, but the rest of them are fall into that spring and summer. That's great, that's awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to bringing my event to uh, to you and to your town there. I know we talked about that. It kind of goes in line with what we've been talking about, you know, like having these young, these young 2012s from alberta, come from all across alberta, come there and and hopefully have some interaction with either you or with some of your players and, you know, give them that, that experience and that junior, that junior feel it's a great town to do it and I'm excited, to excited, to bring it there yeah, well, we're looking forward to having you guys come.
Speaker 1:It's going to be a fun event. I know our staff will be here. Some of our local players will be around, for sure, and again, like we talked about as much as we can give back to help those kids, and you've got some of the top talent coming, so it's great to a little bit probably early for me, but but again, the idea that we can teach them a thing or two about what we've talked about today is huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I love that pathway too.
Speaker 2:It's like open, opening that door. I know, uh, I know when Spokane listed me which I guess is a different experience, but they were allowed to do that at 13 back in the day, like my 13th birthday, I got a letter or a phone call from Spokane that I was on their list and like instantly it was like, wow, you know, and I knew how to, like I drew the logo in my garage and I started working on this and I started working on that, like it's just, it keeps you part of the system and I think that that's cool. Like we do that here in vernon too with the vipers. You know the vipers are around and and exposing them to that, uh, to what that's like right, like that's the dream. Now that can be the dream and I think that's a really cool dream to have exposing them to that, to that Canmore Eagle facility and culture there. So I'll let you go. Is there any words of advice for for players or for parents out there who want to put on a Canmore Eagle jersey one day?
Speaker 1:Well, that's a good question. I mean, I think obviously the program sells itself outside of the rink. I mean, it's pretty easy to look up Canmore and think how beautiful it is. But you know, I think from our standpoint, if I was giving anyone advice to come through the program, I'd understand. We have three words and you probably heard this.
Speaker 1:You know it's work ethic, system skill, and it's not going to deviate from that. It's nothing that's going to change. You know you can be the to be successful and I think that's important for players to realize at a young age that that work ethic is non-negotiable. Here in canada, where you have to have it, um, it's the first thing that gets you through the door. You know, after that we have to play a strong system, um, and the game is evolving so much with video and techniques and how we play. We have two full-time assistant coaches that are always pre-scouting and so we're aware of tendency, so the system is so important for us. And then, third level, that is, we're gonna have the skills to play.
Speaker 1:So you know that's something that we talk a lot about. We recruit is like we gotta, you know, get to know the people. Uh, that's the sort of plan we have in place. And then, from our standpoint, we want quality people. You know we talk about that a lot. We can teach you how to play hockey. We can't always teach you how to be a good person. So, like you and I talked a lot today about you know becoming a quality individual and having a lot of people speak highly of you is going to help you more so than your toe drag, because we think we can work with you and that's why I think what you're doing is phenomenal with the mindset stuff.
Speaker 1:I mean, we all have to teach skills and that's a big part of what we do. But to be able to teach kids that the you know intangibles that go into this and the things you've learned over your career, you know, for me as a coach, I want guys that have worked with guys that have been there, because you've taught them like, hey, you know, during the hard days, this is how you're gonna have to handle that. Or you know, when things don't go your way, or when you're on the fourth line, you think you should be on the third line. Here's how to approach that. You know versus you know. You know these guys that just come in say I'm just the best player I've always been. Why am I not anymore? You know I don't have a lot of time for that and I think we need to find more opportunities to teach and educate. You know kids mindsets than we do the skills yeah, I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Thanks, uh, yeah, thanks, that's super valuable, I think. I think from a lesson standpoint. I'll just add one, one cherry to what you just said there. Like that work ethic thing for players listening right now you're a hard worker. Compared to what? And compared to exactly you know and like, so we all like, if I walk into a locker room, really like probably even a triple, a u15 team, right, and I'll be and especially at your level, because I've done it at your level where I say, hey, who's lazy in here? No one puts up their hand. Right, because no one really is in that standpoint. Right, you're not going to get there if you're lazy.
Speaker 2:Everyone thinks that they're a hard worker. But then when you actually like, if you to give yourself an analysis of like, how hard do I really work compared to jimmy, bobby, james, jesse, even in your own locker room and led around the league, that's a whole different conversation. And then when you step into junior, you people listening out there, you're against 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, right, are you a hard worker compared to the 20 year old? And you already brought that up right.
Speaker 2:So I think that standard of effort can totally be graded and evaluated, and it is something that you can change your own effort level when it comes to. That right that I am going to be a harder worker here. I'm going to be a harder worker here because there is room for me to grow there. If you can take that conscious choice as an athlete and really self-evaluate and get yourself into that top three in a room like that, you would raise your hand and say, yes, he's my hardest worker or one of my hardest workers, like, wow, what a valuable thing to have. So I love that that's first on your intangible list there.
Speaker 1:And to add to that, paz, I always tell guys work ethic isn't just sweating Everybody. And to add to that, paz, I always tell guys work ethic isn't just sweating. Everybody equates it to sweating. Like you know, hard work is mentally too Like we talk about that a lot. Like you have to be mentally prepared. You have to eliminate distraction. You have to work hard, whatever your situation is personally. You know it's hard work for you to stay focused for 60 minutes. Maybe that's harder than just you know you could. 60 minutes and not get distracted by all the other distractions we have in the world right now. That's hard work and I tell my guys that a lot. You know everybody thinks like the parent who told me his kid's the hardest working player in the gym. That's great, you know. But we can measure that Like that's. You know we do fitness tests in the beginning of the year to see that. But that doesn't always indicate the hardest work, because there's a lot of things that go into work ethic wise distractions and and and opportunities to be pulled away from what you need to do right.
Speaker 1:And that's hard work. It's hard work for me to stay focused. It's hard work for me to stay in the moment. It's hard work for me to sort of maybe bite my lip when somebody isn't as competitive and not be a, you know and I'm going to use the term bully, but not be that outspoken guy. It's hard work for me to do these things. I got to bite my lip every now and then, you know, or to be lacking competitiveness in the sense of, like you know, when I played, obviously you know fighting was still in the game, it was a huge part of it and it was you know you could always say, oh, that guy, he cares because he fights. Well, does he shot? You know, hard work now is is, is being disciplined, right, and that's something that you know for me to control my emotions and not take a bad penalty. That's hard work for me, maybe different than you, but but it's still hard work, yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that, yeah, definitely. And the ability to self-evaluate and self-assess on that is huge. Right, like where, where is, where is my hard work? And to be able to shine a light on that and to work at it. Um, yeah, what a great, what a great way to leave. So awesome man, I really appreciate your time. Uh, awesome stories. I. I love chatting with you because you make me laugh all the time.
Speaker 2:Uh, so uh always good to hang out and uh and yeah, I know that that's going to be a lot of a lot of value for for for the audience today. So best of luck with the rest of your year there, andrew. I know you guys are doing well there. Hopefully there's a championship on the horizon and just keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks, Pods, Thanks for having me and thanks for all the hard work you're doing and helping the game grow the game.
Speaker 2:Appreciate that, cheers. Thank you so much for being here for episode 151 with Andrew Milne. I had a blast on today's call. He's got a million stories and I really appreciated his perspectives and I think it's really insightful to hear the perspective of a coach and GM who sees these players you know these 16 through 20-year-old players come through his locker room doors and stating that mental fitness and personal development is something that they all need and they hold he holds in high priority as far as what they need to focus on. So if that's a note to self, I think it should be.
Speaker 2:If you are a player out there, it's hard to know what you don't know. I recognize that especially as a you know 15 year old hockey player, an 18 year old hockey player. We don't know. We only know what we know. We only know what we've been exposed to. So to understand what personal development even means, or to understand what mental fitness means and how you might train it, can be a little bit daunting. But again, going back to the conversation, being curious and asking the right questions and asking the right questions to the right people will get you answers that benefit you and you will be blown away by how you can double down on your development with an investment in yourself.
Speaker 2:When it comes a little bit outside of the norm of what you've been exposed to, when it comes a little bit outside of the norm of what you've been exposed to, and when players and teams experience this together, it can have a resounding impact.
Speaker 2:So I love hearing that from somebody other than maybe me on this channel, who you obviously know that I trumpet the idea of mental fitness and mindset and personal development and how it is so key to reaching your potential.
Speaker 2:When you hear somebody that is actually making decisions about who will join his team and who gets ice time and what he looks for, and you're hearing it from him that this is a lacking skill and a lacking focus area for players, that might be even more incentive to say, hey, this is something that I might want to get involved in. So I really appreciate Andrew's time, really appreciate you being here. I hope you were able to gain some insight into the things that you were a little unsure about before and maybe getting a little more crystal clear on your path, and maybe the AJHL is an option for you if you're someone from Western Canada and if not, there's obviously lessons in every hockey story and from every hockey league if we choose to hear them. So hockey story, and from every hockey league, if we choose to hear them. So until next time, play hard and keep your head up.