Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
EP.148 - Scott Niedermeyer on Team Success, Personal Growth, and Mastering Defensive Play
In this episode, Scott Niedermeyer shares his transformative journey from junior hockey to becoming a Hall of Fame defenseman. He reflects on the crucial lessons learned through adversity, the importance of teamwork, and the development of confidence in navigating the challenges of competitive hockey.
• Insights on the transition to junior hockey at a young age
• Overcoming adversity and finding success in team dynamics
• Learning from the demanding coaching style of Jacques Lemaire
• Embracing mistakes as growth opportunities
• The significance of enjoying the game and fostering passion
• Confidence fluctuates and is cultivated through experience
Join us to learn about the essence of being a valuable teammate and the lifelong lessons embedded in the sport of hockey.
That's when I really became the best player I could, when I understood the things Jacques was trying to teach me as far as not giving up chances to the other team, being smart with when you joined the offense and tried to create offense, and I think why I don't think I know it made me a very you know, a better player going forward and a much more valuable player to my teams from there on, in that I could kind of be trusted, be responsible whether we're up by a goal, down by a goal, you know, in the game seven of a Stanley Cup playoff game. I became a better player because of what Jacques taught me. It wasn't easy, it was a frustrating process to go through, but probably the most important thing that happened to me.
Speaker 2:That was Hockey Hall of Fame defenseman Scott Niedermeyer, and you are listening to episode 148 of the Up my Hockey Podcast with Jason Padolan. Welcome to Up my Hockey with Jason Padolan, where we deconstruct the NHL journey, discuss what it takes to make it and have a few laughs along the way. I'm your host, Jason Padolan, a 31st overall draft pick who played 41 NHL games but thought he was destined for a thousand. Learn from my story and those of my guests. This is a hockey podcast about reaching your potential. Hey there, welcome to, or welcome back to, the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. I am your host, Jason Padolan, and you're here for episode 147, and today's a good one, One of the best ones as far as somebody who has made a huge impact on the game over their career, A hockey hall of famer by the name of Scott Niedermeyer.
Speaker 2:He is one of these guys that the true introduction is so long it kind of takes your breath away. But I think we need to do it for two reasons One, because his resume is so special. What he accomplished in the game is absolutely remarkable. But two, and maybe some of you are going to be rattled by this, but we don't talk about much of his resume at all. Like I don't talk about his Stanley Cups, I don't talk about his Norris Trophy, I don't talk about the Olympic golds. We have a conversation an up my hockey conversation about hockey, about his adversity, about his adversity, about his insights, about his lessons, so kind of flipped the table on him. He said after we stopped the conversation that there was a lot of questions that he'd never been asked before and he really enjoyed the conversation. So I'm glad it was a breath of fresh air for him. And if you are, you know somebody who follows Scott Niedermeyer or a fan of him, perhaps this will be a very new discussion for you to listen to, a very new type of interview for him, and maybe we'll find out a few things that you never knew before. And for those of you who would like to know about you know where his favorite place to eat on the road is or what his favorite memory of an Olympic gold is. There are many, many conversations out there that I'm sure you can find on podcasts to hear those stories. But yeah, let's give it a whirl here to try and share with you where this guy is at.
Speaker 2:He was a Camelot's Blazer originally, where he won a Memorial Cup and where he was also drafted third overall from that organization. He also won a World Junior Gold Medal as a junior there playing for Kamloops. He has a World Cup Championship under his belt. That's very similar for some of you younger listeners to the Four Nations Cup that's coming up here. It would be a best-on-best tournament outside of an Olympic Games. He won gold at the World Championships with Canada. He won two Olympic gold medals.
Speaker 2:He won four Stanley Cups three with New Jersey where he was captain, and one with Anaheim where he was also a captain. He has won a Conn Smythe, the most valuable player of the playoffs. He has won a Norris Trophy as the best defenseman in the NHL. He was also a runner-up two times for that award. He was a first-team all-star three times, a second-team all-star one time. He played in six all-star games and he is also a member of the Hockey Hall of Fame. Now, that's a mouthful.
Speaker 2:That is a very accomplished individual and if you never had a chance to see him play, he was one of the best skaters you will ever see. Really, really fun to watch skate. He also had a brother that I played with, Robbie Niedermeyer, who was also a very, very high draft pick who played in Florida and had a long NHL career himself. So obviously there's some athleticism in that family, hailing from Cranbrook BC. So I came across as far as like the background. I didn't ever knew Scott or played with him, but he does live in Penticton now and he is involved with the Okanagan Hockey Academy.
Speaker 2:That's where one of his sons plays and he was on the bench during one of the games which was funny to see, Scott Niedermeyer just kind of simply opening a door for the players there at the U-17 prep or maybe it's U-18, that he was involved with. And yeah, I was laughing under my breath. I was wondering if anyone in the crowd knew that a two-time gold medalist, Norris Trophy winner, was opening the gate across the ice surface there. But anyway, Scott is very under-assuming. He's super mellow, super chill, very humble, very gracious and it was fun having a chat with him. So I will stop with the introduction. I know you now, if you didn't before know who Scott Niedermeyer is, and it was a really pleasure and a blessing to have him on. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with hockey hall of famer scott niedermeyer. All right, here we are, up my hockey podcast.
Speaker 2:I have no idea what episode this is needs, but welcome to the up my hockey podcast, scott niedermeyer thank you appreciate it for for a guy as as acclaimed as you are, you're one of the easiest guys to actually hook up and get on to this. So I want to. I want to thank you for that. It was an opinion. Yes, sometimes hockey players, you know how we can be. It's it's tough to track them down trust me, you just done it all.
Speaker 1:However, this this worked out smoothly. I could be pretty difficult sometimes, so whatever happened, it went smoothly.
Speaker 2:That was great, so awesome, uh yeah, we, we don't really have a connection, but I don't know, if you know, I played with your brother a little bit in florida, so like I do have a connection to rob and uh and through that kind of, have been following your, your family from uh from a distance. So it was. It was pretty cool to to be from western canada, whl gradss and to watch what you guys were able to do, so congratulations on that. What's Rob doing these days?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's actually moved back to Cranbrook. He's a farmer, now a rancher. He's got about 70 head of cattle out on a 500 acre piece of property and enjoying it. He loves it, loves to be outside, loves animals, so he's doing well. Three young daughters a fair bit of soccer in his life. They're soccer players, so he's out there coaching a bit of soccer.
Speaker 2:Something about that doesn't surprise me at all. That he's out on a farm with 70 head of cattle that's super cool. I'm sure he's happy happy as happy can be. Yeah, for sure that's wild. Maybe we'll just start there. You mean, I said that I don't want to like break down your career, but I think you know your journey is is super relevant to probably the perspective you have and and what you're doing now as a coach and helping your own sons. You know, go through the game, uh, kamloops. You know it. There's been so many kamloops blazer guests on my show that I'm sure maybe some of my listeners are getting sick of it. But it's pretty wild, quite frankly, like how good that team was for so long and the success that they had and how so many players from that team went on and had great success other places. How did you get involved with the Blazers? I guess you were a list guy because the draft didn't exist then.
Speaker 1:No, that's right, there was um. You know, I didn't know a lot about the whl really. Um, growing up in cranbrook bc we had junior b hockey there and that's that's what I watched, that was what the older guys were playing and, um, I think maybe I'd been to a game, maybe down in spokane, been to a whl game down there at some point. But uh, you know, when time kind of rolled around I think I bounced around a couple lists, you know, when I was 14, 15, kind of thing on and off, and ended up on Kamloops list. The summer before I could go play, bob Brown and Ken Hitchcock came down to Cranbrook to visit and kind of, you know I guess, sell their program and talk about what they can do and have done, and I think that did impress my parents.
Speaker 1:You know it was a different world back then. We didn't really know a whole lot. We know that they'd had good teams there, good players had come through Kamloops prior to that time and at that point my parents seem sold on it and ended up going there with another friend from Cranbrook, jarrett Bocay. We both took off at 16 years old to go play in Kamloops. So that was kind of nice to have someone along heading off into a new adventure.
Speaker 1:So, and his dad actually back to development. His dad was our coach pretty much all the way through minor hockey. You know we were lucky to have him. He was a gym teacher in the high school, you know, and just a real good coach, made it fun, taught us a lot about the game and you know the right values. I think is probably maybe the most common thread that I was fortunate to be part of with coaches was, you know, sort of team first, play for your teammates, you know, do what you can to help them, to help the team, and that was sort of always the the approach that I was involved in playing for different teams.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so, so, but I didn't realize you, you, you did come with with Boca because he, I mean, I know, you know, but he's part of he's part of an agency now and he was, he was a guest on the, on the program as well. So I did.
Speaker 2:Okay, he's a better storyteller than me, so yeah well, he was a lot of fun to chat with. Yeah, no, he and he's doing big things right now. They're doing great there. So you stepped in at 16 and and had a heck of a season. You know where you. You said you hopped on and off some lists. You know it's it's nice to kind of go back to that time and and you know now a hockey hall of famer and a Norris trophy winner. You know, back then you were a kid from Cranbrook who was just playing hockey. Like, were you just playing hockey? Were you, were you crushing everywhere you were going at that point, like, what was the trajectory like for you at that time? If you could look back at that, yeah, I mean no, for sure.
Speaker 1:I mean we, you know I was doing well. You know I was probably one of the better players on our team. I, you know, could always skate well. That always helped me, you know, especially at a young age. You know when you can skate, you know it gives you a big advantage out there. So that was always a strength of mine. So I knew I could have success playing hockey, at least in the level I was at.
Speaker 1:You know, playing minor hockey in Cranbrook and traveling around just a little bit. We did mainly in the Kootenays of BC and over to southern Alberta, lethbridge, medicine Hat and Calgary. That was kind of our world, our hockey world. So, you know, I had some confidence. I knew I had some talent to play hockey.
Speaker 1:Um, I didn't really know what that meant to go play in the WHL, though In my, in my mind, it seemed it was just a part of a small little local world and I was having success there. And did that mean I could go play in the WHL? I wasn't really sure. Um, you know, so when I ended up going there, um, you know, and having a bit of success, we had a good veteran team, a lot of the other young guys unfortunately didn't see a lot of ice time as 16-year-olds. We actually had, I think, five or six 16-year-olds at my year and a lot of them didn't play a whole lot and I was fortunate that I did get to play. I think that's important, you know, to be on the ice, to be playing, to have experiences, good and bad, to learn and become a better player, right.
Speaker 2:The idea there of like going to Kamloops as a 16-year-old. I mean, I went to Spokane as a 16-year-old too and it is a whole. It's a whole new world and it's a whole new life really, and that transition can be challenging in a lot of ways. Uh, as you said, the other four of you weren't playing very much, which makes it that much more challenging. What was your biggest challenge that year from a personal perspective? You going to a, to a new city like that at such a young age that's a good question.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think it was just hard moving away from home for the first time.
Speaker 1:I think that's probably what stands out.
Speaker 1:I think I was fortunate in the sense that I got to, you know, play and feel a part of it. I imagine for those young guys the other young guys that I was with that weren't playing as much that's just an extra challenge to kind of deal with and that would be tough because they were the best players on their teams, you know, the year before and all of a sudden you know they're in and out of the lineup and watching some hockey games and that is a tough position to be in to kind of keep that excitement, enthusiasm for playing the game and that passion for it not get discouraged, at least for any length of time. It's going to be hard over the short time to not get discouraged, but I was fortunate, probably just moving away from home to not get discouraged, but I was fortunate, probably just moving away from home. Like I said, moving away with a good friend of mine I think helped a lot. You know that we kind of went there together and that that eased the transition for sure.
Speaker 2:So for a lot, of, a lot of guys that I've had on this, I mean and Jerome X Blazier was one of them like the, the biggest adversity that he felt, that he faced, when he really looked back on everything, was his 16 year old year in Kamloops. You know like he thought about leaving, thought about quitting. You know there was all these kind of ideas because he he didn't play a lot at 16 and it was so new, was there. It doesn't sound like your 16 year old year was that? Was that traumatic? If you did look back now at the entirety of your career, what was the, what was the hardest point for you to get through?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I was fortunate. My 16-year-old year went very smoothly all things considered. You know, for most players that age there is going to be some bumps in the road. It's a big step and I was fortunate to play with, you know, an older defenseman that had been in the league, a big, strong guy. You know we had other veterans back on the blue line, so it was a pretty good spot for me to kind of just slide in and do what I could out on the ice. Um, I would probably say for me it was probably about three or four years into my NHL career where I probably had had sort of the biggest challenge and the most frustration, um, with the game.
Speaker 1:Jacques Lemaire was the coach in New Jersey at the time. You know the first couple of years, his second year in New Jersey, we ended up winning a Stanley Cup and I think that was my third season in the NHL. It was a shortened season with a lockout, you know. So in those first few years you're excited to be there. You're enjoying every second of it. Then you win a Stanley Cup.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, know, things are just cruising along pretty darn good, you know really better than most people, for sure, obviously, and um, you know, after that, jock kept, you know, demanding playing a certain way and it was a little different than I had in my mind. You know, a defense first kind of approach and you know I was like every kid wanting to score goals and get points. That was sort of what I wanted to do. And you know I was like every kid wanting to score goals and get points. That was sort of what I wanted to do. And you know, so we, you know, kind of butted heads a bit. I was trying to do play a certain way and he had different ideas. And there was probably a stretch for a couple of years where, you know, I was being pretty stubborn and he obviously knew what he was talking about so he wasn't going to change his mind.
Speaker 1:No-transcript, no-transcript. But probably the most important, that's when I really became, you know, the best player I could, when I understood the things Jacques was trying to teach me as far as not giving up chances to the other team, being smart with when you joined the offense and tried to create offense, and I think, well, I don't think I know it made me a very, you know, a better player going forward and a much more valuable player to my teams from there on, in that I could kind of be trusted, be responsible whether we're up by a goal, down by a goal, you know, in the game seven of a Stanley Cup playoff game. I became a better player because of what Jacques taught me.
Speaker 2:It wasn't easy, it was a frustrating process to go through, um, but probably the most important thing that that happened to me yeah, I mean, I think that is really valuable insight there, just for everyone listening, because here you are not a hockey hall of famer at that point, right, but a future one, and still obviously a very accomplished player.
Speaker 2:To that point, a third overall draft pick. Somebody stepped into the nhl didn't, you know, be in the minors at all and won a Stanley cup. And now there's resistance between you and your coach about the I really a player identity, a little bit of a crisis right, about what you wanted to be and what he wanted you to be. And boy, this happens all the time. I'm sure you see it, you know, on the levels with your son right now, when I'm working with players, that's that's one of the main things we talk about is how do you provide the most value and really understanding that, uh, and wanting to adopt it. Yet there's massive amounts of mental resistance when it comes to that. What for you, like, do you remember what that moment was as far as the breakthrough was, where, like you, kind of just let go?
Speaker 1:yeah, that that's a good question because because when I look back on it now I just can't believe it took me a year and a half, two years to sort of battle through all that, to kind of get to a point where I was like, okay, I kind of get it now and let's kind of move forward. And maybe it wasn't just one moment. It probably was a gradual sort of progression of me just kind of understanding it more and more and starting to live it in my game. Um, you know, when I was on the ice and maybe when, when I started doing it more, you know, probably jock saw it and probably maybe gave me a little more benefit of the doubt. So it was probably a two-way street, just uh, in any relationship you know, there's kind of managing it and figuring it out, and I'm sure that that's kind of how it played out.
Speaker 1:So you know again, like I said, in hindsight it's hard to believe that it took that long, and especially now that I know how valuable, you know, that kind of mindset and understanding how to play the game, to win, to help your team have success, really is, I guess what the bottom line was there and I wouldn't trade any of this team success we had for for any sort of personal thing at all. So, uh, I'm, I'm glad I had Jacques as a coach and went through that and uh, you know, like I said, I think I think probably without that, who knows if I, if I, make it to the hall of fame. Really, I think a big reason I probably got selected to be in the hall of fame was because of being part of successful teams. Um. So you know, would that have happened without that? Who knows?
Speaker 2:Yeah, such an interesting I mean I love that discussion, especially in today's day and age where there seems to be more of a focus on individuality and that personal success we can talk about. You know the reasons why, probably ad nauseum right. The highlight reel error I call it is you know you see these goals and you know they have their Instagram feeds and, and that's kind of what keeps feeding the system. And and and the team play that you said you were, you grew up on, I think isn't quite as valued in in in most situations. Yet you know, here you are saying that was one of the biggest keys for you, yet you did have your own personal mental resistance with it at the time, because we do want to flourish and thrive in a way that we think that we, that we can and are able to.
Speaker 2:I know that's been a discussion. I've heard and I'm sure you've obviously heard it numerous times too about yourself that your numbers potentially could have been a lot greater had you been in a different situation. Maybe you don't have the four cups, like you say, right? Maybe you don't have some of these other things. How do you like? What's the advice for someone out there trying to balance, that you know, the idea of making people better, being part of a system, maybe taking your foot away or off the gas from the personal production. You know, do we? How do we do that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think that's just part of maturing. You know, I would say I think that was my journey through that um, I was probably no different. Like I said earlier about it, you know any other kid, I love to score goals. Um, the prettier they were, the more excited they were. I mean all of that, right, I mean that's a great part of hockey, for sure, um.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, you know winning um.
Speaker 1:You know, sitting on the bench, sitting in the dressing room, with guys that you're going out to compete with and just looking across and knowing that they're going to do everything they can to help your team win Um, you know if they're they're going to stand up for you.
Speaker 1:You know, as a smaller offensive guy that played plenty of guys that were out there to sort of make sure the other big guys were staying out of my way, at least partially, you know, and and when you, when you kind of have that bond with your teammates I don't know how many goals personally could ever make up for that type of experience and when you win you just you sit there and you realize like that guy played with broken ribs and you know he went out there and he was blocking shots, and you know doing things that were very uncomfortable, yet helping our team, and you know that that to me, is the the pinnacle of hockey um, maybe pinnacle of life, I don't know in many sense helping each other out working together. You know, as, as people, um, rather than individual things, I mean, you know for sure individual things are nice and and when we do, you know they feel good, but they don't feel as good as that type of success you have with a group when you're pulling, you know, on the same rope, in the same direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love you saying that. I mean, I think that's the best part about hockey. When I look back on it, of course, you know I love scoring the goals and I love doing that stuff, but the idea of hockey and what it really allows you to do and allows you to learn when it's done right, you know, like when it's done well, I just there's nothing better than a team sport like hockey. When it comes to that, and I think to me it speaks to the I'm going to use the word like male, masculine aspect of of us too, right, like the brotherhood, the bond, like the physical challenge. I mean all these things that that, I think, speak, speak to us on some innate level. It allows you to come together and and and really feel like you're, you're doing something special and, and you know, I've never experienced on on the level you, you did, but you know, going, going to a final in in any league, or you know, getting getting there. It's a journey, right?
Speaker 2:And you got a bond and, and it's a totally fun one to look back on what?
Speaker 2:uh, you talked about culture and and you talked about, you know, the value system and the coaches that you're grateful for. I'm sure that comes from from your parents as well, you know, I I did know Robbie a little bit and you guys always seem to me like a really grounded group. You like yeah, I don't know how else to say humble, grounded, grateful, you know, and and I imagine that comes from mom and dad in some capacity uh, how, how, what's the message to parents out there if that is true, like, how much can we instill in our kids to be those team players that we're talking about? Yeah, I wish I knew that answer to that as a parent.
Speaker 1:But, um, yeah, I mean, I think it's just, you know, stressing, you know the, the things we've talked about about you know, hard work, being a good teammate, you know those types of things are all. You know they're old messages but they're good messages. I don't think they'll ever go out of style or you know we'll ever find better ones. You know my, my parents, my mom, you know my my parents. My mom, you know, grew up on a farm, so she sort of had that background of hard work and you know needing to get things done. And my dad was from Saskatchewan as well and you know they just really wanted us to go do our best, work as hard as we could. You know, be a good person, be a good teammate. That was really their message, quite simple, you know, and, like I said, I was fortunate to have coaches, right from youth hockey into junior hockey, that really were focused on that and understood the importance of that to to help our team succeed, um, and win hockey games, um.
Speaker 1:So I was kind of always around that and, uh, you know, part of my personality, I think, helps with that a little bit too. I think there's some times where I'm not really thinking about sort of how to act or you know, it's just kind of who, who I am, Um, but I know I learned a lot from, yeah, parents, coaches all the way through and I always had, you know, great, great sort of leadership and mentorship right from right from the get-go for sure.
Speaker 2:Did mom or dad get too involved in the hockey side of hockey?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I think my dad was the manager of the team, wasn't a coach, didn't play a whole lot of hockey himself. My mom was an athlete and you know they were always on the road and you know, on the road trips with us and helping out. I think my mom actually was the president of minor hockey for a little period of time in Cranbrook and involved in that fashion. So I'm not really on the ice unless it was maybe on the pond or different ways like that, but they were involved, they were helping, you know which, which was great, and we were fortunate that that they did sort of support us like they did for sure yeah, oh, I guess where I was more going with.
Speaker 2:That is like breaking down your game or like helping you know that type of stuff no they.
Speaker 1:I don't think they really felt they had the knowledge to really do that. Um, I think they could tell if you were working hard. You know they knew if, if you were working and skating and, um, kind of ready to play, I mean, I think that was probably their focus more than anything. Not nothing technical, you know, really I don't remember ever talking about much technical with my parents at all, but it was about hard work and sort of being ready to play and play hard.
Speaker 2:How do you balance that now? As a dad, I know your boys are going through, and I mean, of course you know the game. You can also see effort and work. Do you have a hard time balancing how much to give?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I think about it a lot, you know, because I could probably not stop talking for 24 hours a day really about it if I wanted to. You know you want to let them have fun and you know, I think at the end of the day, and even looking back on my experiences, I think you know there is so much out there now which is great, but at the same time I think you just have to live through stuff. I mean I think you have to fail, you have to trip and fall and pick yourself up and learn lessons. You know kind of the old-fashioned way, the hard way, um, you know.
Speaker 1:So I, I think I've learned that maybe a little bit by just, you know, being a parent. You tell kids what to do or you know and show them the the path and they decide they're taking the other one and they need to learn the hard lessons. So I don't think coaching, you know, or you know, and hockey's any different. I think those are the powerful lessons over the long run and if there's a consistent messages and different things like that, that kind of go along with the truth they find for themselves, it's probably probably the way they get there yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Like me, I try my best to not offer anything unless they ask for it, meaning my own boys, like, not necessarily my clients yeah. Yet the one thing that I will offer without them asking is usually, if I do see some type of an effort scenario, you know, like that'll be. That's sort of where my standard is, and even that, like I try and let them come to me, I'm not going to, I'm not going to bark it down their throat, but that's my firm line. And then the other one is like, yeah, I'd love to help, but I don't really I don't want to feel like they're being attacked with, you know, tactical, you know whatever trivia kind of deal Is that?
Speaker 2:Like for those out there listening, did you feel that's a good, a good recipe? As far as you know your value system as a family, I mean, I do love, I, I compete in effort for me or big ones, and those are the ones that I kind of like are non-negotiables. Other than that, you know, there's lots of ways to play hockey. There's lots of different avenues to play it, but if you want to actually be a hockey player, those are going to be my standards and we'll figure out the rest yeah, no, I think so, I, you know, for there is lots of different ways to do it.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, especially in today's game, different systems and you know there's so much more than there was when I was a kid. Um, and, and these guys have grown up with it and they sort of digest it more and think about it more. In that sense, Um, so I, I would say so I, and I think you know it is hard to know the line for sure. I think some kids maybe will come out and ask and talk. My kids, some of them, are a little like me, where they're a bit quieter and maybe they would just not even think about asking and in their head they're kind of thinking, well, maybe dad will tell me something.
Speaker 1:So you know what? I really don't have an answer for it. I guess, in the big picture, if I look at it, I think what I would probably say is the most important thing. I mean, do they really want to be out there and they're enjoying it? You know, and I think if they are, you know the rest of that, you know, giving them some advice and encouraging them to work hard. I think that'll all be accepted quite easily if they are out there for their own reasons.
Speaker 2:ultimately, I would say Going to take one short break from the podcast to talk to you about the umh 68. Everything right now is umh 68 invitational for me, uh, and that means that we are sending out invites right now for my invitational event that is coming to alberta, saskan, manitoba and again in British Columbia. We are looking and inviting the top 68 players in their birth year that we're covering for these events and it is really an Up my Hockey-based event. It's focusing on the development of the person as well as the hockey player. I do believe in holistic development model. I believe as we improve our personal skills, we will improve our athleticism and our hockey skills and the mindset required to be our best. And that's what the weekend is all about bringing a best on best experience to these young athletes to provide an opportunity for them to grow their awareness, to grow the idea of what high performance means and peak potential, and they can walk away, uh, with new relationships, hopefully, a new, deeper passion for the game, uh, and an awesome, uh, an awesome lessons that will last uh their hockey journey and, hopefully, a lifetime. So, really excited about what's going on. We're doing the 2012s in Alberta, we are also doing the 2012s in Saskatchewan and we are doing the 2011s in Manitoba, and that's on top of the events that I have previously ran in British Columbia the 2012s we're covering this year and 2011s in Vernon, british Columbia. So super exciting.
Speaker 2:If you are a coach or if you are a parent in any one of those provinces, please check out my website, upmyhockeycom. Uh, if you feel your player is someone who should be at this event, or even if you just simply want them at the event, uh, and and would like to have their name put on the radar, by all means, please do uh again. Coaches, uh, managers out there, this is, uh, a hockey network. We, we are out watching games, but we all know how much ground there is to cover and we are relying on a referral system, networking system, people who know good players that need to be invited to this. So, if you are somebody who knows a player who would love the experience and it deserves an experience like this by all means check out the website. There's a section called the watch list and all you have to do is fill out. Fill out the watch list and then you are guaranteed to at least be on the radar. So those, those invites are coming out now. The events range from, you know, end of May through to the middle end of June. Be sure to watch for where they're coming for and it's a really exciting development without my hockey and a way to to celebrate the game, celebrate the players, celebrate the players, showcase the players and also to advance them as, uh, as people and players. So really exciting, real exciting for me to be involved in.
Speaker 2:So, without further ado, let's bring you back to the conversation with Scott Niedermeyer. You mentioned being a good teammate and that that's an old, old message, uh, but one that doesn't get old, I like. I like asking that question in a little different way and even diving a little deeper on. What does that mean? Because I think, for a teenager that's listening to this right now, or even a junior player that's listening to this right now, might not really understand what that means. Yeah, and I think it does probably mean different things to different people, but when you say that, if you think of, like one of the best teammates you ever had, or like what they would encompass and what would qualify to get, to get them that accolade from you, what would they be doing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's probably a broad thing. Uh, you know a broad spectrum of things they would be doing for sure, right, like, I think. I guess, first and foremost, I would think you know when, the, when the game's going on, I mean, are they committed to the team in a sense of positional play, making good decisions? You know, I guess I could argue against myself. When I was a defenseman and you know, maybe giving up two on ones, or going offensive when I, when I shouldn't have, and giving the other team chances, I would probably think my teammates didn't think I was a great teammate because I was, you know, costing the team or potentially costing the team by the way I was playing, you know.
Speaker 1:So I would sort of say that is one of the things. Are you working and competing for the team, you know? And then the simple things of the support and encouragement that you can give each other. Uh, during a game, um, you know, after a goal, you go back and you know, tap the goalie's pads and say, oh, don't worry about it, you know, we'll go get it, get one back, and or a guy makes a mistake and and you're supportive and and, you know, sticking together, you're not, you know, blaming someone else for for your trials and tribulations on the ice I think that's another one. Yeah, you're in it together and you've got to find ways to make it work. Support each other, help each other. So I think the list is long for sure.
Speaker 2:Do you think when I'm dealing with younger athletes, the first thing that comes out of their mouth is helping somebody when they're down, which I mean, there's a a nice virtue to that, right for sure, uh, and, and the sentiment is nice I don't know how well that actually works in real time uh, you know if you've made a mistake and you're on the bench and you know somebody comes up and come on. It depends on who you're talking to, uh, but I won't discourage somebody from trying to help a teammate ever. But, uh, but I do think, like, when I, when I challenge players, sometimes I ask them, like how do you feel that you make other people better? Right, like, so that's like an open-ended question and I think when we think along those lines, potentially the conversation sort of changes. Right, because that does mean on the ice. Right, like, how do you make your wingers better, your d partner better or your goalie better? Right, by how you're playing? Uh, in the dressing room, maybe some your behaviors, like, are you making people feel good about themselves? You know, in the room, off the ice, are you complimentary of their value to the team and what they offer?
Speaker 2:And I think the celebrating of success is maybe the hardest one in an environment like hockey where you're competing against each other. Maybe at a younger level where you actually you know you're all trying to move up the chain. You know the ladder. Everyone's wanting ice Sure To really be authentic. In your celebration of someone else doing well and understanding that, you know that doesn't diminish your opportunity to do well yourself. Can you maybe speak to the success of others? One and how you, how you handled that or how you would suggest people you know navigate that? Yep.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's a great point in the reality of being a young player, a young kid, um, you know for sure everybody's trying to move up and, you know, get on the power play. And so I think you're always dealing with sort of those feelings. Um, I guess I would suggest, uh, you know, those feelings are probably natural and part of being a human, but maybe they don't need to be the first ones that come out of your mouth or you act on. You know there's times to. You know, recognize that that's not going to be constructive for anybody, for me or the other player or the team. You know, and just kind of, you know, get back out there when you get the opportunity to do your best. That's ultimately what's going to help you advance and and, uh, you know, get where you want to get as an individual player, which is a fair goal.
Speaker 1:As an individual, you know to move up and have success, um, but I would say you know, having some of those good tendencies of being a good teammate will bode well for you, as just as much maybe as scoring goals.
Speaker 1:Or you know, yeah, getting points, um, you know, by coaches will recognize that and say you know what we really want this guy in the team. I know I've played with many a teammate that probably were on the team much more for that than they were for their skills or their goal scoring or point totals. You know it was their willingness to support their teammates, to stand up for their teammates, you know, to do the tough jobs. Um, maybe their willingness to not, you know complain when they weren't on the first power play or they were on the fourth line and they took pride in it and found a way to feel good about that type of role. I mean I think those are just part of maturing as a human and a player and, um, for a young kid to to get there does take time. That you're gonna, you know it's. It's a natural thing to to be a bit selfish, I think for sure no, I think that's a great point.
Speaker 2:The what luke bus is a client of mine. He's now with wisconsin and he came on on the on the show and he talked about kind of our time together and one of the things that I thought was really cool about, uh, his last season was one of the things he wanted to work on and this kid's a a great kid, by the way, like fantastic. And you can tell probably by what I'm going to tell you if to have the self-awareness to tell me I felt, always felt, that I was a good teammate, but I wanted to be a great teammate, yeah, right. And so he never felt that he was really selfish, but the one thing that he wanted to work was on the bench, let's say, right, and somebody else scored on the power play or this type of scenario where he would feel a little bit bad about himself. Super honest, right, like what an honest thing to say and what a mature thing to say. But he didn't want to be like that and he wanted to celebrate.
Speaker 2:And so he, through intentionality, right, and through the idea of recognizing that you know what, this doesn't hurt my chances of success personally, it has no bearing on it Right, like he got to the, the tangible, pragmatic understanding of that and then was able to move forward, to be authentically celebratory, you know, with his, with his teammate, and that was one of the biggest moves that he made in his own game, which allowed him to flourish on the ice, like it was like really one of the big breakthroughs, and so, like when I, when I I love talking about personal development and and again this idea of hockey as a team and what makes it so great, you know, and and so he became a great teammate and, in the process, scored more goals, go figure, I mean, in the process was more productive, in the process got to Wisconsin as an NCAA, you know, a scholarship ad and um, and so I I just love seeing that.
Speaker 2:I think, with intention, you know we can do that and so I just wanted to, you know, add on to your point there that this is something that you can improve, you know you can be better at it no, and I and I think you know in a in a bigger sense even, like for me personally thinking sort of when was I playing my best?
Speaker 1:it was sort of when you didn't have all this other worry, and you're thinking about that, you're thinking about this. You're kind of just going out there, trusting all the work you've done and just going to play, and you know, playing for your teammates, playing for yourself, and you know not, not in that state of mind where your mind's going in different directions and kind of distracting you from from just being out there in the moment. For sure, so I think that might be connected there a little bit, you know, with what, what he went through?
Speaker 2:yeah, for sure you mentioned about what your boys you know, with what he went through. Yeah, for sure you mentioned about your boys, you know. Do they want to be there and are they having fun? And that's another layer of having fun. If we're worried about other people, like the more layers we can take away, right, and we're just in the moment playing a game, you know, I think that's where the actual passion comes from. That's when we're just playing, when we're playing a sport, especially now, that can just take us away from what we all want to be, which is the best hockey player we can be consistently.
Speaker 2:Uh, no for sure. When you you talked about maybe giving up a two on one, right, and then how that would reflect potentially on you not being a great teammate. Yeah, now let's chat about that, because what an interesting concept because you probably being your best in your environment, you needed to create offense like if you weren't you're also you also weren't being a great teammate, right, because you weren't using yeah, in my mind that was probably yeah what I was thinking about well, but for real, right, and so now, even on teams, right, if somebody like there's, I think there might be a fine line between being courageous and then being risky.
Speaker 2:You know, like, so how do we, you know, how do you balance that? Or even for you, with you, like, I need to be offensive. I am offensive. This is a gift that I have and this is something I need to provide. Yet I don't want to be reckless or risk. Is that again, just being in the moment?
Speaker 1:at the end of the day, at the end of the day, I mean to to sort of put that into words or you know what that is precisely. That's really hard to do, you know like, and that maybe is why it took me a little, a little time to really kind of fine tune it, to understand what. What is you know, coach Lemaire really asking here? You know, and, and, and I think at the end of the day you know it's, it's the same thing as as how you win games. You score more than they do, and you know, I guess the next level from that is you get more chances than they do. Now you know if you're going to get a chance and then every chance you go get, you give one up. Well, you're kind of just treading water, you know. So I think there's just sort of an awareness, like starting to recognize. You know you could probably try and force some offense anytime. Really, you know you could always go forward.
Speaker 1:I think it just comes in learning like when is a situation, when does it arise where the chances increase for success? You know, rather than forcing something. And I think that's probably what I had to calculate and start to learn. You know, with my skill set, what does that look like? When are the opportunities to take advantage of? What do they look like? You know when the percentages are. You know 80% maybe, or something of at least creating a chance without being irresponsible defensively, or I don't know what the number is, but you know it's a high chance of being successful.
Speaker 1:It's not like you know what. I could try this, but it might only work one out of 10 times. That that's not going to fly with Jacques Lemaire. That doesn't fly with winning hockey, because that means nine out of 10 times the other team's going to get the puck and they're going back the other way. So you're never going to win hockey games. You know doing something that might work one out of 10 times. I think that's maybe as best I can describe it. You know, and again it's individual what are your strengths as a player? What can you do maybe that another guy can't do, or what can he do that you can't do? That changes the odds on one of those situations. They will all be different and I think that's a personal thing to figure out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's I like that you say that actually the only I've ever really we've never really broken that down on this pod, but the idea, like I know some players get upset because they will try something and say Jimmy tries the same thing, both guys aren't successful.
Speaker 2:Jimmy doesn't get in shit though johnny does. And and I think that you can actually break that down in the idea of what you just said, right, and be really honest with it, like how many times has that ever worked for you? If you're the guy that it didn't work, and if the coach all also knows that you might be a one out of ten guy in this scenario right now and johnny might be a seven out of ten guy and didn't work for him that time, right, yeah, um, so that might be one way to be able to come to it. And then I think the development aspect that you're talking about is really important because, like that's where the reps come in and practice off ice, on ice, whatever the case may be. So you get comfortable enough and confident enough that now your percentages are in the positive.
Speaker 1:If I do try this in a game, I'm more likely for it to be successful than not yeah, no, I, I think you think you're right, I think that you know, I think, as, especially with young kids, you know talking about this, like you know, when I was playing as a 12, 13 year old, I, you know our coach, you know Mr Bouquet, he didn't want us to give two on ones either, but you know he probably wasn't treating me quite the same way that jock was. You know so, and I think that's important, right, the kids need to make mistakes and try stuff, you know, to figure out what we were just talking about. You know practice obviously is a great time to really try things. Um, you know to, to maybe make mistakes and, um, work on skills that can help you uh and create, uh, offense. You know whether it's your skating, your stick howling, um, you know passing, which you know.
Speaker 1:If we get talking about modern day players, that seems to be a lost art. You know how to pass and receive a pass. It's like these guys can stick handle in a phone booth, but tough to catch a pass for them. You know, and that's a still super important part of the game, if not one of the most important parts of creating offense is being able to move the puck. But I think that's it. You know, at a young age you know you kind of gradually get into understanding the importance of not, you know, taking too many chances but at the same time you can't take it all away from a young kid. It's kind of probably a progression as you move up the levels. You know that that kind of situation gets you get high to tied to a higher standard as you move up the ladder.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I mean the pattern recognition is a word that came to mind when you were talking about that too, right, I think the more reps that we get in, the more we mature, like it just inherently becomes more obvious, like, when is this opportunity? I, I'm on the, I can jump past this defender right now, right, and so I can now create an odd man rush. Right now, right, and so I can now create an odd man rush. We have possession.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a good time for me to go, instead of, like, perpetually forcing, forcing, forcing. You know, it becomes, yeah, less risk adverse and more and more natural. I guess, um, and I think that kind of means to me that's almost boiling down to hockey iq, and I know now I'm looking at that through the lens I, I knew I used to know what hockey iq was from a player standpoint, because, oh, I really like playing with this guy or maybe we're on the same level, right, yeah, I knew where we were going now as a coach, it's like, oh, it's so frustrating not to see hockey iq, right like yeah, how are you?
Speaker 2:not going there? Why did you not press that book right? Um it's easy on the video.
Speaker 1:it's easy on the video and it's easy sitting up high in a rink. You get the game slow and lots of room, yeah.
Speaker 2:Isn't that crazy. That is the biggest thing, I think, that disconnect for anyone Maybe even guys like us that played to understand that when you're actually in the moment it's a way different world, it's happening way faster and it's definitely harder to see and we got to remind ourselves of that sometimes. For sure, absolutely, you talk about passing. I do think that's an interesting topic because the biggest.
Speaker 2:The NHL is phenomenal still, and obviously it always will be the way they can move the puck. It's a lot of like one touches off rims. Now you know to guys that they've seen, before they even get the puck, two kind of touch sort of scenarios tic-tac-toe. Junior is a big step down, the HL is a more moderate step down, but it is something that just doesn't collectively seem at the youth amateur level to be what it was as far as well. Yeah, even where to be without the puck, like these types of things. In your coaching capacity now, because you are, are still involved, how are you trying to implement the idea and that skill of moving the puck past people instead of potentially skating the puck past people?
Speaker 1:um, I mean, I I think it's just a lot of reminders. You know it's a lot of maybe. You know, looking at video and saying, did you see these options? That would have been a lot more efficient way of creating offense or moving a puck into a better position than trying to skate it there yourself In game. You know, maybe having a bit of a discussion after a player gets off their shift you know that guy was ahead of you and open, you know, would have been much easier to move it and keep moving yourself, and then you might've been the guy getting the shot because all the tension would have went to the other other player you get lost, you find open ice and now you're the goal scorer at the end of the day, right? So, um, you know it's just very much repetition.
Speaker 1:Um, like you had mentioned earlier about the highlights and that everybody loves the one on one play, but I, I, what I love watching you watch some of the best players in the world and the biggest games in the world. It's the passing, you know, it's the teamwork that that creates offense. Not many players in the world, at the highest level even, can do it consistently enough to to have success one-on-one or by themselves and um. So to just see some of the plays you know, and it really even gets down. And when you really get to the the top of the heap in the Cup finals, it's like is someone screening the goalie? Are we shooting and hitting the goalie's pads for rebounds? I mean it's pretty boring, not all that. You know TikTok worthy, you know style of hockey, but you know it's how you win and so I try and encourage that, point it out to the players, but it is a constant sort of thing and it's going to take a lot of time and experience for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the defenseman in the modern game seems like there's more Scott Niedermeyers that maybe you would speak to. What I mean by that is there's been a discussion in my in my Facebook group. I have a parent group on Facebook where people can ask questions and they have conversations. This one lady was was talking recently about her son being put on D by the coach. And then how there's like this, almost looking down your nose at at defensemen, like there seemed to be the butt of all the jokes. You know they're supposed to be less skilled. You know they're always the fault of the goal, like the goalie. Parents don't like the D cause they give up two on ones Right. The forwards don't like the D cause they never get the fuck up, or you know like it's fair enough.
Speaker 2:But but I think, like for you, if you were to start again like right now, would you would like what drew you to D in the first place? I guess, especially in the nineties. You're a guy that can skate right, you could, you know you, you had this high offense, yet there wasn't a lot of you back then that would that would chose D from a minor hockey age.
Speaker 1:I think I got put back there by either my dad or coach bouquet or whoever it was. I think they said we need defensemen. You know, you want to go back there and I guess I didn't put up you know too much of a fight and ended up back there and like, oh, this is all right, I don't mind this, play a bit more and see the game a little bit differently. So I think you're right, I was a forward. I think every hockey player is born a forward or a goalie, and then, yeah, we find our way to become defensemen somehow. I guess, um, yeah, I mean, it has changed. I mean, even, just, you know, there is a better level of skill and puck handling overall. Um, in all positions, um, of the game for sure.
Speaker 1:Um, I still, you know there's a lot of defensemen that that create a lot of value by defending. Well, you know, to do that you have to be able to skate. Um, it does take a level of skill to, you know, to get pucks out of your end and move pucks up to the forwards and make plays, to make plays along the blue line in the offensive zone. So, you know, I think there's still many defensemen that aren't your classic sort of total offensive type defenseman. That's up the ice a fair bit, but they all have the skill, the ability to make the little play, to move the puck efficiently and effectively.
Speaker 1:Um, and skate, because nowadays I mean that that's one of the massive differences. When I played defense you didn't really have to be able to skate, or started playing in the nhl. You could hook, hold, slash, cross, check. You know you could. You had a lot of tools at your disposal to slow down offensive guys and the league has taken all those away. And now it's a matter of positioning, having a good stick and being able to skate and stay with people. It's a heck of a lot harder to defend now for sure, I agree, yeah, way harder.
Speaker 2:And it's also looks to be like a heck of a lot more fun to play D, you know, from a, from an offensive standpoint side, just seem much more willing to allow, you know, players to move into the rush, have that other layer of offense, the, the offensive zone cycle, like there's no one standing on the blue line very much anymore people are active, uh, yeah. So I don't know to any young players out there like, and I still think, like when you do have that player that moves back, can defend but now can also add offense, they're still unicorns, right? Yeah, I, you know, and I think they stand out a lot. They definitely provide a ton of value. So as a coach, I try to encourage some of my offensive players to consider it for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you're right. I think the way the game's played now there's a lot of interchangeable parts, you know, all over the ice. And you know, back again, when I started it really wasn't like that. You know, I used to do a bit of that and that maybe was why I was getting in trouble a bit with La Mer. But, you know, trying to do it smartly and learn to do it in a smart fashion. But it really did, you know, make it harder to defend, you know, for the other team not knowing where someone was or moving out of a classic position and trying to sort it out on the defensive end. So and you see that a lot now, I mean for sure, there's guys moving down and up and forwards, coming up high and all that stuff's going on. That makes the game harder to defend and does create more offense. But coaches are always finding ways to defend and teaching their teams how to do it.
Speaker 2:Hey, I'm curious, random tactical question for you Net front in your own zone. So when we were coming up, the D was always behind me, cross-checking me in the back, you know if I was trying to gain position. Now a lot of teams are having the D front the player and try and get between the puck and them and allowing that offensive player to between him and the goalie. What's your thoughts on that? Do you have a strategy or what you would coach?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I think that's again goes kind of to a personal. You know, what are you comfortable doing? What are your strengths as a defenseman? You know some guys don't mind eating pucks. You know they're coming hard and you know a lot of guys are comfortable stepping in front of them and getting their body on it. I think if you're going to do that, that's kind of what you need to do is not let that puck get past you. You know, on the same side, on the flip side of that, if it does get past you, you're in trouble now because you've lost position, you know. So I would kind of say, unless you really like to block shots and get in front of that puck and are really good at it I mean obviously that's important you have to be able to do it as well as liking it. I would say you know being on that defensive side as much as possible is never a bad place to be overall, okay.
Speaker 2:I'm glad. Well, I didn't know what I was going to hear from you, obviously, because I mean there's a lot of NHL guys doing it. It seems like they want all six of their D to front. I just think, like, as far as what I was taught and what I coach is like that defensive side of like that really is a key concept that a lot of players don't get, whether you're for checking or whether you're in the neutral zone, right, be above the puck, be above your player, right now you have angles, now you have position, now you can attack. And now, if you're going to take that concept away, like right in the crease, like that seems absurd to me to really to do that. You know, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean I, I agree I, but I, there are guys that are big and you know they're going to get again. Nine out of 10 pucks are not going to make it through them. Um, you know, and they're, they found a way to have success. You know playing in that style and, and, and it helps the team. So I think that's hockey in a nutshell, like that would be.
Speaker 1:One of my more consistent themes is that I think you mentioned it earlier there isn't just one way to do anything. Ultimately, you know, I think there are some concepts that remain pretty consistent and true to at least where you should start from. But obviously, if you recognize you've given up that defensive position in front of the net, you now have no choice but to get that puck and not let it get to the offensive player behind you. I mean, that's as simple as that. So it doesn't leave much room for error. I kind of like you know where you're in position where you do have room for error, or you can help and you know help another player, or you're just in a good position where not only you know he's going to have to get around you but you still have options to defend from.
Speaker 2:From that position, yeah, I guess the thing you do have access to potentially on on the wrong side of them is you do have to get a stick. I mean, if you can get a stick, then I guess you're, you're somewhat okay if you can turn and you have access to a stick and there's a rebound there, like you still have that fighting chance. So I do understand that premise. But we're, if we're talking to young d-men right now, uh, as far as from a skill set thing that you mean if you would, if you would suggest that they dial in, you know one, two and three, you know if you can do these things, you can, you can almost play anywhere. Someone's going to recognize you like well, what would those, what would those things? Be sorry to put you on the spot with this, but I'm sure it'll come naturally to you, yeah, no, I mean it's the, the first one's, I mean.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it answers your question totally, but it's what stands out to me and it it's kind of just the intensity and focus it takes to defend in your own end consistently. Um, I I think that's something that that young defensemen always need to work on, you know it's. It's pretty common to see, you know, the play the pucks in your end maybe not right in your position or whatever, and there's sort of a relaxation. Maybe you lift your stick up, you straighten your legs, you kind of just take a moment, you know to, to maybe grab a bit of oxygen or whatever. But you know, the best defenders are always adjusting, they're always reading where the offensive players are, where the puck is, where your teammates are, so that when something does come, when the puck does maybe make its way to your position or your man, that you've already moved into position to be effective and make your job easier.
Speaker 1:And I think that is something that is a tough sell, you know, for young players they're like, well, unless my guy sort of has the puck or my position is where the action is, you know, I'm just going to sort of watch and see what's happening and then then the puck pops into a position and now now you react where it's like am I anticipating that?
Speaker 1:Am I moving into position a little bit, you know, to maybe anticipate a puck coming behind the net or into a different, different place. So I think that, not so much a skill I guess it is a skill but just sort of you know, having an awareness and a focus in your own end to always be adjusting, to give yourself the best chance to defend, would be number one. Probably another thing I mean I mentioned awareness in that sort of combined with that focus, compete awareness and after that is use of your stick. I think at all times your stick should be in a position where it's there for a reason you know, taking away a passing lane, discouraging someone to skate into a position, whatever way you can use your stick, it's you have it. You might as well use it to your advantage. So I think those are the two things that really stand out.
Speaker 2:You know, to me yeah, that stand out, you know to me yeah, that's your second point there is something that I noticed in my own progression and and recognizing defensemen the longer that I played was the the ones that were really would give me fits. Weren't necessarily the guys that were big, strong, whatever it was like their stick position that was always in an annoying place, right to either make the pass or get around them. And, uh you, some of the best of the best come to mind, like Nick Whitstrom was was a genius at it, right, genius at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah absolutely, that's a great one. Yeah, I mean, stick is such a valuable tool to use and I think I love your idea there of that. I mean, really it's a, it's a mental skill what you said right To be able to think and to read, little thinking to read, and uh, and obviously that's up my alley. But the idea too is like how often you see a player get to that puck? Maybe even they defend well enough, but they haven't considered the information available to them and now they don't know what to do with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's a big one, right like now. You've finally broken up the rush or the cycle or whatever. It is like you've ended a play, but if you can't start another one, it it doesn't make any difference really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So when I, you know, sort of talking about that awareness, it wasn't only about the offensive guys, it was where my guys you know where's the open ice, who's the open man? Um, so yeah, once the play happens, or we, we change possession, or I'm able to take it off this guy, what can I do with it? Yeah, and I think offensive players, you know there's a bit more of a motivation to do that, you know, because it's sort of always been part of sort of the game and having success offensively is making those predictions and adjustments to get into position. I think it's pretty much exactly the same thing on the defensive end. It's maybe just not. It doesn't seem as important when you're 12 years old, or even 16, or 18 or 20, for that matter, you know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, and I think as far as those time time windows can, I mean, decrease every level up, and I think that's where where the reads do start to matter and if we can instill this as coaches to these younger players, you have more time. If you get to the puck and now you have to have your head up, now you have to find somebody, your feet are probably in the wrong spot, your hands are in the wrong spot to move that puck. Yet if we can get there, know where we're going with. That happens at the nhl level all the time. By the time they get the puck they already know where it's going. They have to know right, or else it just breaks down. So that skill under pressure, skill in small areas and being able to read, uh, what you doing. So that's the idea of thinking one step ahead. So for everyone out there listening, yeah, like not what's happening right now, but what's happening next, right, like how do you think about what's happening next? And how you can, how you can make that play.
Speaker 2:Short break from the conversation with Scott to look at the calendar and see, oh, my goodness, it's already January 13th. And what does that mean? That means that associations, teams, junior programs, academies, associations are all looking ahead and doing their planning for the 2025-2026 season that's going to start in the fall, and if you are a program or an association that does not have personal development and mindset training involved in your competitive divisions, you are behind the eight ball and you are missing an absolutely key component of the development model. Now, up my Hockey can fill that gap for you. It's a plug and play scenario. You don't have to lean on your coaches. It can be, you know, a unionized well, unionized is the wrong word. It can be a standardized uh curriculum for your players as they move from U13, u15, u18, that you know that you have the personal development and mindset curriculum covered that is going to allow your player to grow within your association, uh, within your teams. It will be a reason to keep players in your association and teams and it will be something that the players and coaches will be very thankful that they had available to them. So if you are somebody that is a decision maker or somebody who writes checks to decision makers and you don't have mindset training involved in your program, then by all means, reach out to them. They can reach out to me, upmyhockeycom. We are taking phone calls all throughout the month, january and February, to see if it is a good fit for Up my Hockey and your place of residence to work together. It's a really exciting time.
Speaker 2:The amount of players that I've seen go through this program now and the amount of teams that I've worked with of all ages, uh, has truly made a remarkable impact. Uh, it helps set culture. It helps redefine what a challenge is. Uh, there's opportunities where they weren't seen before. Uh, how to be a teammate. The culture in the room changes the resilience of the team, how they handle practice and their own personal development. It really can be a game changer, and this is something that happens over eight weeks in a team program. So, by all means, throw your hat in the ring. Let's see if it's a good fit.
Speaker 2:Upmyhockeycom reach out there through the contact form or Jason at UpMyHockeycom is another way to get ahold of me through email, and I would be happy to set up a discovery call and see and see where we can take it. It's 2025, 26. It's crazy. It's going to happen before we know it. Uh, now let's get back to my conversation with Scott Niedermeyer. What's your message to players out there? As far as a smaller defenseman, scott, that you know needs to be able to end plays as well. You know doesn't necessarily have to be physical, potentially, but can't just contain right. We've all seen that defenseman that maybe stays on the d side but never, ever is able to disrupt possession, and you're, you're, in your end for what seems like ever. How do, how do they go about mastering their craft?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think, I think you obviously have, well, you know just different tools, I guess, to defend and then try, and you know, break plays up and kind of change possession. You know most little defensive and I imagine, you know, I think there's different ways you may be. You're skating, uh, maybe you can use that to angle and and sort of take time away and put someone in a bad spot or maybe recover. You know, maybe recover from a poke check or an attempt at a check. That doesn't work, but you know your skating allows you to recover to, to get a second crack at at the same player use of your stick. You know smarts anticipation, I think, are sort of the other one, like a hockey sense thing, and you know you're maybe arc containing for a little bit and then you're like, okay, I see he's kind of lulled him into some position or whatever, and now I'm going to anticipate that and get a stick on it or maybe use the body at that point and recognize that. You know, even though I'm smaller, I have the angle. Maybe use the body at that point and recognize that. You know, even though I'm smaller, I have the angle, I have the leverage and I can now, you know, end this play here.
Speaker 1:So, um, it is important. It is much harder than it used to be. I mean, you could hook and hold and do all those those things before, but it really does take smarts. It takes some skill with with your skating, with your stick, to be able to do that. Um, and obviously it's tremendously helpful when you are able to to end plays.
Speaker 1:I would say the the risk there is if you're being too aggressive as a young, young player or smaller player and you kind of get flipped around to the other side or or you get caught, you know, and giving them chances up that way. So you really do have to be smart. It kind of goes back to we're talking about making decisions offensively to have the most success. It's kind of the same thing when you're defending, like, is this actually going to work nine out of 10 times when I go in now to to try and take the body on this guy because I have angle and position on him, or am I really taking a two out of 10 opportunity here to see if it happens and it doesn't happen? So it's somewhat similar, I guess, in making those calculations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, those calculations, yeah, yeah, when you mentioned getting on the wrong side, just for everyone listening again, we're talking about that body position and it's the difference of like six to 12 inches and it means the world, you know, in in, in quick games that happen fast, and when you lose body position, you lose access to the net, you lose access, access to the puck, and, and it really does make a huge difference when we can think in terms of that, from offense and defense and that transition, you get 12 inches and there's a difference, like a big difference on both sides.
Speaker 2:Uh, I guess that's the challenge. I mean, whether you're big or small, I I want to extend that challenge of try to end plays if you can. I think that's really a hallmark of a defenseman, you know, yes, you want to stay in the d side, yes, you want to contain, but the D side, yes, you want to contain, but at some point somebody needs to stop the play from happening, and I think that's sort of a mental idea of what it is D are trying to accomplish, and I think sometimes they forget that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know, maybe cause, maybe cause we're telling them to not give up chances, so they're kind of like I don't want to, I don't want to make take this risk to maybe get caught out of position. Um, you know, I think that could be part of it. I, I think you know it is hard, it is hard to defend now, right, like you make just a subtle little mistake on either your angle or body position, like you just mentioned, you now are at a, at a bad position and maybe giving up a scoring chance. So I, I could see where there is this tendency to kind of be conservative and and but I think it goes back. You mentioned earlier about in practice.
Speaker 1:You know that's a great time to kind of try things and kind of start to gauge what can I do, what can't I do, you know, and make mistakes in practice and try and defend maybe more aggressively than you do in a game. And you know like I can actually make that type of play that maybe more aggressively than you do in a game, and you know like I can actually make that type of play. That's a play I can do, you know, 90 of the time, and have success. I'll use it in a game, um, successfully after that. So I I think it's similar to what we were talking about earlier and uh, but yeah, you don't want to be hemmed in your zone for for a minute or two, that's for sure that wears you out.
Speaker 2:when it comes to confidence, it's something that comes up time and time again. You know the players, players want more of it. You know you, as professionals, we wanted it. There's times where we didn't feel like we had it, and it seems to be sometimes this elusive, tangible thing that you know it's stuck in our closet somewhere and we just haven't been able to see it through the other, through the other shirts hanging. You know how, how did you come to that ideation of confidence and and and maybe your perception of it, or how you grew it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it, it is important, um, and it is a. It's a strange thing for sure. Um, in some ways, um, you know, you're never really at one level of it. I think it's kind of always increasing or decreasing or, you know, changing, even when you know you're at the top of your game. You know, as a pro, or at least in that realm of your career, you know, in mid to late twenties, and probably never been better at the game, there's probably still moments for sure, there's moments where you wish your confidence was more, or your confidence is a little weaker than it would be in the best case scenario. Your confidence is a little weaker than it than it would be in the best case scenario.
Speaker 1:Um, I think consistent time, practice, um success, I think, over time and benefiting from that work you're putting in, I think that gives you at least a base layer of confidence and sort of knowing what I can do and what I'm capable of. Um, but you know, I guess chicken or the egg kind of thing, I mean, I think it's, I think it has to be earned ultimately. Um, I know, probably, you know, I guess chicken or the egg kind of thing, I mean, I think it's, I think it has to be earned ultimately. I know probably you know you can get a little bit from coaches, you know putting you in situations and showing trust in you and that that obviously creates it as well. But I think you have to just recognize the work you're putting in and you know that's where it has to start competing and getting out there doing your best to to at least give your chance yourself, yourself a chance to succeed and then feel confident and good about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like you talked about the, you know, the practice, or the base layer. There's different layers, like the hap, I think, habits like your personal habits, which which seem to evolve and really cement as a pro and the farther you get to understand what it means to be professional, you know in your, in your eyes, or what it means to be a hall of famer, like there's different habits that guys have and and I think that, at least to me, it seems like the guys that have a little bit more foundational confidence let's call it usually have really fantastic habits yeah, I.
Speaker 1:I think that's that makes total sense. Um, you know, in the sense of how can I give myself a chance to go out and be my best? You know now what kind of preparation is that before the game, mentally, you know, the day before in practice, am I putting the work in? Am I building those habits that I do on a daily basis so that when I go out on the game I'm going to have the best chance to have success? And when you have a little bit success, the confidence just grows and you feel good about it.
Speaker 1:Rather than going into a game maybe a bit underprepared, you didn't put the work in the last two days in practice, you kind of backed off your intensity or your effort, whatever it may be, and you go into a game and all of a sudden you're a step behind your plays you're not making. Now, your confidence is dropping right. So I think you're exactly right, I think you can. There is a real way you can actually build it and kind of give it the best chance to flourish and that's put that work in with habits and sort of build that thing. Um, from a young it takes time. Like you said, it's hard to uh, you know, have a 12 year old that's got all dialed in in their habits and you're right, I probably didn't have my habits dialed in until mid to late. You know, maybe 26 or something like that, where I'm like, okay, I kind of have this 90% dialed where I know what it takes now.
Speaker 2:The mistakes is another one that shows up and it affects it's an individual thing and it's an individual experience with it. And it affects, it's an individual thing and it's an individual experience with it. You know what they mean to us, how, what the impact is ultimately going to be on our game in that moment, whether it be that period or the game as a whole. Uh, when it comes to someone that that ended up being at, you know, at your level, I mean, hockey is a game of mistakes, you know, I, I, I tell younger players now to watch Connor McDavid like there's multiple turnovers every night, but this guy's amazing, but he's attacking, he's attacking and he makes a lot of good plays too. So perfection is unattainable, that's that's for sure. Uh, but what did a mistake mean to you, or how did you overcome a mistake? Was it any? Was that something that ever you know impacted you to a point that, uh, that you got in trouble with it sometimes?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think that there is, and even for each individual there's. You handle it different ways at different times. I think for the most part I was lucky that my natural instinct was, if I made a mistake, I wanted just to go out that much more and try and make something good happen. You know that it was sort of that was a natural kind of reaction I had to mistakes, for the most part, not always, I mean, sometimes you put your head down, you know, especially if you've, you know, suffered a few of them, you know in a row or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1:You know it's not always easy to do that, but I think in general that was my, my, my response was like, okay, that happened. Well, let's go out and try and, you know, make something positive happen or be better. That was it. But you know, when they were repetitive and you kind of get in that point of the season or whatever it is, where things really, for game after game, haven't seemed to be going well, it is hard to kind of dig back out of a mistake and not let it weigh you down. For sure, you know that is a difficult challenge to deal with at certain times.
Speaker 2:for sure, I like what you said there, though. I mean and I believe I like to offer, provide choices right For players in the moment, and I think that what you just said there maybe what your natural instinct was can also be a choice. If it's not the natural instinct of a player, you know that. That that the mistake now represents an opportunity for you to go out and make a positive impact. Yeah, and that's how you identify with yourself. So I mean, now that mistake becomes an opportunity to be something better and, and I do believe, like, if we have that, if we have that mental change of focus now, this thing isn't something that we necessarily have to have our head between our legs on the bench about and feel bad.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that another mistake is going to come. It doesn't mean that we're having a bad game and that we're going to get benched Right. It can actually mean that this could be the piece of the puzzle that actually pushes pushes me forward. So I think that's great, that that, uh, you know and maybe fortunate right that that was your natural kind of tendency to handle that, but I think that's a super powerful one. Like that is a choice that we can make. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think you know, I think too sometimes you know a little bit of I don't know, maybe pain's not the right word but discomfort and frustration. That is how you learn and get better and in those moments I think you know you talked, you asked earlier about sort of that one moment in my career we talked about, but I don't know if I would have learned that just by words and pat on the back. You know I probably had to feel some discomfort and frustration to really analyze and and really sort of take it in in a real, real fashion. So you know you're going to have ups and downs and that's part of it. You're going to feel frustrated and you know those are learning opportunities and hopefully make you better down the road.
Speaker 2:That is it. And I think, if, if, if players out there, if they're going through something right now, can just even hear that hope, like, recognize it, that this thing that feels crappy, that sucks. You know that's making you question all these things and your confidence is low that that could be the biggest gift you might ever have right now.
Speaker 1:You just got to find a way to get through, you know go ahead, just keep working Right, like, and it's hard, it's hard to do, it's frustrating. And you know, like back to what I talked about earlier about that stretch, for me it was a long time, it was two years. There was probably weeks where I was kind of doing it and working through, and then there was probably another week where I'm like, ah, this is what am I doing, I'm lost again or I'm sitting on the bench again. And it was probably many attempts, many failures, up again, down again, and you know, like I said, years later I kind of at least got part of the message and, uh, that is part of the journey and what makes it special, I guess, to sort of figure some things out.
Speaker 2:So with um. With regards to the players I work with, I try and get them to check in on what they're proud of. You know, what they're doing well. I think a lot of us, especially high performers, we're critical by nature. Right, we want perfection and we're, and we're striving and we're pushing, which can sometimes blind us to what we're actually have accomplished and what we're doing well and maybe some of the habits that that we've changed about ourselves that are giving us some of the successes that we're experiencing. So I'm going to, I'm going to shine that light on you. I mean tons of stuff to be proud of in your career, but like what if you could boil it down to one or two moments? Or things like what do you? What are you proud of from your time, either as a player or as a person that you learned from in your in your time in the game?
Speaker 1:Yeah, geez, the question. I don't know if I've ever been asked such a I don't know. You know, it's sort of like guess. Ultimately, you know, something I have said before is about, you know, proud of, I think, being a good teammate, you know, and knowing that guys felt I sort of cared about them and about the team and that was something I think I did and did. All right, probably could have been better. For sure, you know, like your client, it's about being a great teammate. I'm sure I could have been a better teammate. I'm, I'm sure that was possible. You know, and, and I guess maybe just you know, taking my journey with my talents and and and trying to do the best I could with them, which I, I think I did my best at. Did I perfect it? No for sure, you never do, but do, but you know, I think I I sort of took advantage of them and tried to use them in a constructive way.
Speaker 2:so I guess those would be some things I'm I'm somewhat proud of, and beyond, being part of successful teams that's awesome, yeah, and and being a part of successful team has to say something about, you know, everyone on that team, and yourself in in particular, because there is there is some of those personal, human attributes that we talked about earlier that have to be present.
Speaker 2:I mean, you have to be selfless in some type of way, you have to be willing to sacrifice, you know, you have to be willing to put someone else ahead and to talk about them and to celebrate them, and so there's a lot of cool things that happen with winning that I think we, we sometimes we overlook about ourselves, which is why I mean I thought it would be well. Why not ask you that question? Because I I think they're good things to revisit, you know, and I and I think when, when we can share those stories and have those types of discussions like these are also, again, choices that somebody else can potentially choose. You know, I want to be proud of doing that too, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you know, like you said, like being part of that, that that's really over time been 14 years since I retired and it's really a perspective on on playing, for me at least, really changed. Like when I was playing it was kind of just focused on what do I got to do and that was it. I wasn't really thinking about big pictures, thinking about last year or any of that sort of thing, and then when you retire you kind of have a whole. You can kind of flip at it and look, you know, flip it around and look at it and and kind of think about, geez, what, what was all that? You know?
Speaker 1:And people always say, well, you were, you know, you, you were on these teams that did all these things. But I really kind of just said, yeah, I was, I tried to do the best I could with my small role on those teams and and everybody else there for the most part did exactly what I was doing. That's why we had success. So, um, you know, to kind of just talk about that team success when you're talking about me, well, I just did my little part. That that's really what I came to recognize and which I guess I always knew, but when there's this constant sort of talk about you're on all these winning teams, yeah, I was along with like 20 other 25 other players and coaches and all a whole group of people that were doing exactly what I was doing, and and that's kind of what, um, you know, I really thought a lot about after I retired, for sure that makes it special.
Speaker 2:You know, being in a bunch of like a like-minded group yeah is, I mean has a lot of impact. Speaking of impact, do you is there? Is there a coach or a player or a teammate that that was instrumental for you? That, uh, that you can look back on and being like, oh yeah, that was. I'm really glad he was in my life yeah, yeah, I mean many.
Speaker 1:I think that sort of stems just from what I was just talking about. I I mean the amount of good, committed teammates, committed to the team, and the way they played, the way they conducted themselves. I think all the way along, right from playing minor hockey in Cranbrook with committed, good other teammates that we pushed each other, we enjoyed each other, we were committed to each other playing even when we were 10, 12 years old, um into junior. Ken Hitchcock was my coach, tom Rennie, guys that have had success uh, as coaches that I was able to learn from the teammates there again were were tremendous and I learned a lot from them. And then the same thing in pro hockey.
Speaker 1:I I really, looking back again from that type of perspective of a retired guy, I I couldn't have really been more fortunate, you know, and just you know, if you could pick yourself up and just drop yourself in a spot, that would be ideal to learn the things you need to learn. I was in those spots and you know. So I was very lucky in that fashion. I imagine I was kind of reflecting or giving some of that back to the situation too, but I really was in good spots with an organization with the right goals and approach to achieving them. You know all the way down to the staff, the equipment guys. Um, they were all in it together and I was part of it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, one of the messages without my hockey and kind of even what this podcast is is is my little version of trying to give back to a game and make a game better.
Speaker 2:You know that provided me with with so much and and it's one of the messages that I have with the clients that I work with and actually was you know, it was just one of the topics that we had in our inner circle call the other day is gratitude for the game, gratitude to the sport, and what can we do to make it better. You know, whether you're 12 or whether you're 19 or whether you're a pro, you're. You're in a situation where 20 year pro I mean all the accolades, all the things I mean you're on this podcast, not not for you, probably for me, uh, and probably for my listeners is is there. Do you sort of have that underlying thought too, that you know this game has been pretty great and I and I really do want to try and make it a better place, even though I'm not playing it anymore yeah, no, I absolutely like when I was playing, I looked at coaches a certain way.
Speaker 1:I definitely look at them different now. You know and recognize the things that they taught me and the things I benefited from all the coaches I had. You know, when you're a player and a coach, there's always this push and pull and a little confrontational in some respects, definitely back when I was playing. You know they're, they're holding you accountable and, you know, sometimes making things a little uncomfortable or you're different from your viewpoint, for sure, and um, but then again, when I retired, you kind of take it all in and you're like, geez, I had a ton of guys like you asked me about that really helped me along the way teammates, coaches. You know other people in the organization that spent a little extra time or taught me something or or whatever it was, or gave me a pat on the back after a tough night, whatever it was.
Speaker 1:And you know so, to be able to, to kind of do the same thing for somebody or try to, um, does feel good, um, you know, as you kind of move through life and get on the other side of that circle somewhere, um, you know, I, I kind of have exactly the same thoughts you just said about trying to give some of that back that so many people gave to me. Um, and you know it's enjoyable to see, it's enjoyable to see young players, you know, taking some of that and and learning and growing as people and players. It's, it's a rewarding, rewarding thing to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's super rewarding. I mean, yeah it's. It's kind of the most fun I find, like when you see a player find value and self-esteem in themselves, I mean because of whatever new decisions that they're doing, that's also resulting in something that's really important to them being a good hockey player and helping their team win hockey games. Like they're I don't know, you know, like I love. I love that aspect of it and to be some some small piece of that, you know, to help them, to help them do that is is pretty exciting and a great way to to go to sleep at night sometimes.
Speaker 1:so uh, I guess we're part of a big team, right, and no different than being on a small hockey team or a bigger team of coaches and you know, citizens of the planet. So, yeah, absolutely, I, I enjoy it a lot and you know those moments when you do see sort of that success or that confidence, or the play, work or the situation, or you start to see habits, form of these young guys that that help them along. It is a, it's a great feeling absolutely that's fantastic.
Speaker 2:Is there any last message? I mean I've kept you for an hour and 20 or 15 here already, so, uh, I mean thank you for your time. Is there any? Is there any last messages for some players that would hope to maybe, you know, put on that junior Jersey or a NCAA Jersey or an NHL Jersey one day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, uh, I don't know. I mean we've covered a lot of it, right, but you know, I guess I would say, you know, sort of tip my hat to a lot of these youngsters now. I mean, the world they live in is way different than we grew up in, right, like what they have to deal with and you know whether it's social media and just awareness of all these things going on. Like I said, when I grew up we barely knew any other players. You know, we go to these tournaments and kind of watch this other team play and you're like, oh, that guy's a good player, like what's his name? I don't know. Like you know, we're now these guys know everybody and there's these camps and all this stuff.
Speaker 1:It's always going on and I think what I really wish and hope is that they are having the same type of experience that I did when I was 12, 14, 16, 18 years old, that you know they're enjoying themselves, they're having fun with their teammates and playing a great game. I guess, ultimately, that that's what I hope for them. If that leads them to wherever it does down the road, that'd be great, but I would the number one thing that they can think back when they get to be our age and think, geez, that was a lot of fun. Those guys you know, those friends, those teammates. We enjoyed ourselves and made many great memories together. So I think that would probably be my number one hope for for all these young players that they can say that down the road for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love that. Yeah, I think that passion, that passion happens with that. I mean enthusiasm and fun again, but not discounting the adversity. I mean enthusiasm and fun again, but not discounting the adversity. I mean that's going to be a part of it, you know, and we have to understand that that is going to be there. But the underlying idea is that you're playing a game and you got involved in it for a reason. So no matter how good you want to be, no matter you know what mistakes you have made, that playing where your skates are and being in the dressing room and enjoying that moment in whatever capacity you can is only going to support your own personal journey.
Speaker 1:You know, I think, when you're, when you're doing something you love and you come to that road block or the speed bump or whatever, yeah, it's hard and frustrating, but you're going to have a little extra in the tank to kind of try and push through or over whatever you have to, just because of that love and passion for what you're doing. So, because it is coming, you're right, the challenges are coming.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's life, that's hockey, it's gonna there's gonna be tough stretches, but if it's something you really love, they've just seemed more insignificant. Really, you know smaller, and you just find a way to to figure it out awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks so much for your time, um, thanks for shooting the show with us here. On on up my hockey and I'm sure there's uh, there's a lot of great lessons for everyone listening today no, happy to do it.
Speaker 1:It was great, thank you thanks all right.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for being here. That was not hard at all to listen to. My goodness, if you are a hockey geek fan, parent player and you have the opportunity to have the ear of somebody like scott niedemeier, for what was that? An hour and 15 minutes, my goodness, I think we are all better off than we were 75 minutes ago. I'm super grateful personally to be able to, to be able to ask the questions and to have the reins on that conversation. That was really special for me to be a part of. And, yeah, and try and get as much as we can out of that brain of Scott's Boy the things that he has seen, the places he has played, the things that he has won. It really is remarkable and it was really really a blessing to have him on Lots of takeaways there.
Speaker 2:You know, I I love him talking about his, his coach, and you mean how he had to play within himself and how he had to create himself into this idea of a team player when he felt that he could have been giving more like boy. I mean this is from scott needamar. I'm sure this is something that can be taken away from everybody in a car right now, or wherever you're listening on your headset player parent, what have you? Uh, the idea that we are in a team sport, and that's one of the beautiful things that makes it so special that, no matter how good you are, you need to be part of the group. And sometimes being part of the group and part of winning as a group is taking some selfless acts and figuring it out, and that's what Scott Niedermeyer did.
Speaker 2:He figured it out. He had to play within himself. He didn't get maybe the star quality minutes. He wasn't able to rush as maybe he was able to, uh, but he was forced to learn the game the way his coach wanted him to, and he was able to find that trust with his coach, even though it was there was some resistance involved along the way, but you know him, looking back on that now, says that was those were the most formative years for him, the years that he was most frustrated. That potentially allowed him to step into the Hockey Hall of Fame player that he was and the winner that he was. So, um, yeah, great lesson there. I love that one and maybe we'll just leave you with that. Um, if it's good for Scott Niedermeyer, I'm sure it's good for you. So play hard and keep your head up.