Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
EP.147: Empowering Athletes in the Online World with Katrina German
This episode with Katrina German emphasizes the importance of managing one's online identity as a young athlete in today's digital landscape. We discuss strategies to combat online bullying, the mental health implications of social media, and the responsibility athletes have to maintain a positive digital presence.
• Importance of digital identity for athletes
• Risks associated with social media and online presence
• Mental health challenges linked to social media use
• Strategies for dealing with online bullying
• Awareness of the long-term consequences of digital footprints
• Building resilience and confidence in digital interactions
• Encouraging responsible online behavior among athletes
• Tools and techniques for managing online content
• Promoting positive digital citizenship in sports
• Call to action: Reflect on your online presence and make conscious decisions regarding digital interactions.
So really the rule of thumb is would you say it to 500 people? Because just imagine almost anything that you do, even Snapchat, you can screenshot that information and anything that you put down can get out there. Even if you delete it from a lot of social media accounts or you know, you put it out there on, you know, x or Twitter or your WhatsApp group or whatever Even if you delete it, that stuff can still either be screenshotted or there's, you know, all sorts of software out there that can actually go back in the internet to find, okay, this has been posted at one point, even if it's deleted.
Speaker 2:That was digital strategist and communication specialist Katrina German, and you are listening to the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Podolan. Just watch me now a 31st overall draft pick who played 41 NHL games but thought he was destined for a thousand. Learn from my story and those of my guests. This is a hockey podcast about reaching your potential. Hey there, welcome to 2025. This is the first episode of the new year, and the Up my Hockey podcast is back back after a little bit of a hiatus. Sorry to you folks that like to download weekly.
Speaker 2:Uh, we did take a little bit of a hiatus. I am a one man program here, uh, well, obviously with the help of my production specialist, sarah pad, so we are a two person team, but, uh, it's tough to get everything on the go, so we don't uh miss weeks. Uh, and I apologize for that, uh, but we took a break. Sometimes breaks are needed. We went to Mexico, uh, as a family, which was super fun. Our first, uh dipped our toe in the water with an all-inclusive. We went down to tulum and actually had a fantastic experience. Shout out to the bahia principay down there in tulum. They took great care of us. Uh, the food was fantastic. Uh, the weather wasn't 10 out of 10, but it was like eight out of 10. And that was probably six points better than it would have been at home. So that was fantastic. And we just got to unplug and recharge and, uh, reset for Christmas and for the new year. So, uh, took my foot off the gas pedal when it came to the podcast. So, again, apologies there, uh, but I hope you all enjoyed some time with your loved ones and your family over the break and, you know, hopefully got away from the arenas and hopefully ODRs were maybe more in your players' environment. It's nice to check out from the seriousness of the season and just being able to play the game for fun and, to you know, take what you need over the break. So we definitely did, but we are back and ready to go, uh, for 2025, really looking forward to offering a great series of episodes here for you in the new year.
Speaker 2:And, uh, we're starting with something that is just a little bit different. For Up my Hockey, we have Katrina German on as our guest today, and Katrina isn't a hockey player, but she does work with teams, teams all across the board, hockey teams as well. With what she does, she works in a business capacity as well, but her specialty is communications and digital strategy and uh and how that affects the individual and how it affects teams and how we can protect ourselves, um, from all the stuff that goes on online and on social media platforms, and I think this is really, really relevant and prevalent in today's uh environment. I know in hockey arenas, you know where phones are involved, even away from the arenas, when teams get together, even individuals away from teams and away from their players are maybe out on Thursday night and have their phone with them and something gets recorded and shared at the wrong time and with maybe no context and all of a sudden we're in hot water. So we have a conversation about all those things, which is, like I said, which is necessary, and I think it's educational, this episode, and I think it's valuable. A little bit about Katrina, though. Katrina is an award-winning entrepreneur specializing in communications technology and digital strategy. As mentioned earlier, and as the CEO and founder of Ethical Digital, she and her team are changing the trajectory of the internet through digital strategy, research and certification. Katrina has won many awards. One of the most notable ones is the prestigious International Women in Tech Award for Women in Communications. Katrina is a strong believer in measured results, radical creativity and using technology to improve workflow.
Speaker 2:Some of the topics we covered, as mentioned. You know how the internet works, the risks and how to protect yourself, your athletes, your team and your brand. Social media and that connection to the athletes. Mental health this is a really big thing that's happening right now, making sure that we use social media and it doesn't use us. And how to you know, insulate ourselves and our mental fitness and our mental health from some of the things that go on there Online bullying and what to do about it. We even steer the conversation in. You know how to insulate your brain from being affected from the bullying in the first place, as well as what to do when you do get bullied. I think it's kind of a two-part conversation there, that we cover both ends of it.
Speaker 2:Uh, in this day and age, it seems to me uh, like we aren't empowering our players, our, our children, our athletes to be able to handle criticism, whether it be online, whether it be right or wrong, whether it be just or whether it be online, whether it be right or wrong, whether it be just or unjust, whether it be a lie or a truth. We need to be able to be handle. We need we need to be able to handle words. We need to be able to persevere through them. We need to be able to understand um that others people's opinions aren't that big of a deal. So we are talking about that aspect. We are also talking about what to do if something negative happens on social media and how to handle that and how to behave just as an individual, managing athlete and sports reputation and thinking about how today's online decisions impact your future.
Speaker 2:This is a big one. There are so many good hockey players out there right now. Do you need to be aware of how you are representing yourself online? And the answer is yes. And even if it's not online, even if it's in a group text or if it's in a private text message conversation, you need to be aware about what you're saying, what you're sharing, be aware about what you're saying, what you're sharing, what you have on your phone, because teams can make. Teams can and do and will make decisions about it.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, there are lots of examples of players who have been relegated to the caves of Siberia to never play again because of some of the decisions that they've made in their teenage years when it comes to phones and what they're doing with them. So lots of things to discuss here. I think you're going to enjoy this one Again, not the typical discussion, but one that is necessary. So, without further ado, I bring you my conversation with Katrina German, and happy New Year to everybody out there. All right, here we are at Up my Hockey and I'm talking with Katrina German. Welcome to the program, katrina.
Speaker 1:So pleased to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, fantastic CEO and founder of Ethical Digital. It sounds so professional and I want to know what it's all about.
Speaker 1:So at Ethical Digital, we have the teeny tiny goal that we want to change the trajectory of the Internet.
Speaker 1:So just a nice small goal. You know, we've all been in part of this massive experiment over the last 10 to 15 years, where our entire lives have changed from any previous generation in terms of how we're engaging in the online space, and so we're the pioneers in the online space. And so we're the pioneers. We're the first generation of people who are really creating this base of the internet that could take us for generations into the future. And what are we creating when we're putting this together? And it's been a bit of the wild west for this period of time, but we're starting to get some data and some information in about how these types of online activities are affecting people, and so that's what we're really focused on is let's take some information from academia, get it into people's hands so they can actually understand how a lot of the things that we're doing just you know, sort of just on our day-to-day work and day-to-day lives, how it's actually affecting us Awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so how do you think like that, just that big package that you just talked about there? How does that apply to my listeners right now, and and and? How does the ethical digital fit into their lives?
Speaker 1:Well, when it comes to hockey, you know there's a lot of you know there's so much excitement. There's also also a lot of personal development that happens through through hockey. So there's the physical development, but there's also just a lot of engagement and a lot of people are doing things that are offline. Right, just even participating in sports is offline, which is great and good for you. But again, as part of that and as part of almost any activity these days, social media is involved in that, and so how is your experience online really affecting you and how can that really impact your? You know your personal brand.
Speaker 1:You know if you, if you make a misstep, and, and, and you know screw up. You know there's a whole cancel culture out there, which means you know someone screws up the internet's after them, right, and making sure that they're they're not going further. So what are some of the things that we can be doing right now? Thinking about about how you're participating online, but also how you're setting yourself up for success in the future. And you know it's not just the obvious things of what you're posting online, for you know your audience and that sort of thing. It's how you're communicating with your teammates on WhatsApp, how you're showing up and how parents are sharing and showing up what's happening in the sports world and social media as well. As you know even further into it, you know how is this actually affecting you, how are you feeling when you're involved in the online space, and you know what can you be doing to make sure that your experience online is actually enhancing your life, not taking away from it.
Speaker 2:Right. Do you see? I mean a lot of the shade that comes from, you know, the social media platforms, the internet in general. Is that what you just said? That it's not really leaving people feeling better about themselves? Maybe their situation Is that showing up in youth more so than potentially in adults?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Well, here's the thing is. You know, there's a lot of focus right now in the news. Jonathan Haidt just had a great book that came out called the Anxious Generation, and it was a New York Times bestseller and you know it really hit the airwaves. So it's really talking about youth right now. But this is a story.
Speaker 1:This is an issue that affects everybody, you know, of all ages, anybody who's online, really, which is around 96% of the Canadian population, so it's you know.
Speaker 1:So this is something that really affects people of all ages, you know, but our youth particularly, because, you know, a lot of us remember a time when there wasn't the internet. I remember having, you know, conversations and growing up in a space. I remember my first time in a chat room. You know things like that. So we have an understanding of life without the internet, whereas a lot of our young people are growing up with it completely enmeshed, completely, entirely a part of their life. So a lot of the things that you know we dealt with as teenagers and you know, kind of those coming of age lessons and developmental lessons are way more acute for our young people, because not only are they, you know, trying to walk through their lives in reality, but they also have to sort of project a life online, you know, for friends to stay connected and and so what does that mean? And so there is a slight difference, but it is. It is an issue that affects everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and so, maybe, and so maybe we can dive into that. I mean, as far as what is proper behavior or etiquette, you know, a lot of times I think you know guys will have a you know a text message to group thread, or maybe they're in WhatsApp or maybe they're on Snapchat. You know, I'm just thinking about the. You know the athletes that I work with and I think in some contexts they feel like it's a private discussion room. You know that they're sharing whatever. They're sharing their jokes, their barbs, their whatever, and sometimes what's maybe said in there isn't what they want to be shared somewhere else. I'm just like, how do you balance that, especially in a teenage brain where you know you kind of feel like, hey, this is a safe place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the best rule of thumb is would you stand up in front of 500 people and say that thing? So are you comfortable? And you know, it's also one of those things, too, where our world is changing right now. Making sure that you're using inclusive language, you know, not being too insulting, all that kind of stuff is really important to people. Bullying is incredibly important, you know, because we know the impacts that that has on people for life. So really, the rule of thumb is would you say it to 500 people?
Speaker 1:Because just imagine, almost anything that you do, even snapchat, you can screenshot that information and anything that you put down can get out there, even if you delete it from a lot of social media accounts or you know, you put it out there on you know, x or twitter or you know, or your whatsapp group or whatever. Even if you delete it, that stuff can still either be screenshotted or there's, you know, all sorts of software out there that it can actually go back in the internet to find, okay, this has been posted at one point, even if it's deleted. So just never, you know, use the grandma test, right like, would you ever say this to your grandma? Would this be something that you'd be comfortable with her knowing was coming out of your mouth, and whether that's about another person, about yourself, maybe just some sort of joke it really is understanding that, even if it feels like it's a it's a small group, you know, who are just paying attention um, it's actually. It can have a lot further repercussions and we see this all the time, like and that's not uncommon there's a lot of times when someone is thinking, hey, this is just our small group, this is just my buddies, this is never going to get anywhere, but it does, and you know, those things leak out.
Speaker 1:And I'm also just going to add one more thing, jason. Um, I want you to remember that almost all jobs it's something like 86 percent of jobs are not posted. Most of them go to friends and acquaintances and people that you know, and that's just a common way of hiring. That's maybe it's been done a lot in your life, but particularly with you know, hockey and different groups like that, where people are growing up, those are. These are all people who, on your team, you're probably going to see for the rest of your life, like, maybe not all of them, but there'll be a bunch of them you're going to bump into professionally in your work and all that kind of stuff in the future.
Speaker 1:And so you know, even though you're not thinking about this way, you're just like, hey, it's my buddy, you know, down the road, you don't, as you know the guy who was always chugging beers and you know being hilarious about drinking, you want to be known as somebody who is respectful online and you know somebody who's hireable in the future, and so I know that it's hard for you know, perhaps teenagers to understand what you know those impacts can be. But being a good person and really truly connecting with people online is always going to be more powerful than you know, kind of showing the worst parts of yourself or, you know, saying some things that are edgy, you know, or funny, you know.
Speaker 1:I use quotation marks, you know that you know people will carry with them and remember going forward. It's something where it's not just right now. You have repercussions for a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I believe it. I mean, it's true, it's just like I'm just trying to think. You know, I tried to do my best in a 48 year old brain to remember what it'd be like in a, in a 15 or an 18 year old brain and uh, and the boundaries are hard, like I think the boundaries are hard for this generation to know. Uh, because where's the delineation? Right, like the locker room is one thing and I'm not saying like absurd stuff happens in the locker room, but it is a different. There's a different conversation that can happen there than in the classroom, right? And?
Speaker 2:And I think that as social beings we do all understand these different constructs, right, that I am, when I am with grandma, I can say this. So when I'm with the boys in the dressing room, I can say this. When I'm in the locker room or in the classroom with my teacher, I can say this Like, so we, we're sort of conditioned to have these, these places and this way to be. And then we have this thing now called the internet. That it's it. Because it's so disconnected, I think it's hard to understand how you're connecting. I think, just in its nature it's sort of strange.
Speaker 2:And uh, and then to tell a 15 year old at 11 o'clock at night or whatever on a Friday, when they're sitting in the room, that they you know that they can't tell the joke they want to tell, or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2:I think that just gets hard for them in the moment, right, like to, to stay connected to that and I'm just trying to think of, like, what would I say now? I mean, I am a coach, like I work with, I work with kids, like, how do you, how do you help them help themselves? You know, in those moments, and I and I love what you piece Like, but there needs to be self-awareness to that Like. And I think a lot of kids at that age are still trying to figure out who they are and what they're all about, you know, and what they stand for. But I think, the more that we can be authentic in our voice, in our message, in what we are, then we're probably not wearing too many different hats in these different circles, right, and trying to be different things. But I don't know, is there anything else that comes to mind other than you know, what you've mentioned already to help these players?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, what I'm thinking is like the very first thing to understand, and I want to talk a little bit about how let's not let big tech own us.
Speaker 1:I think that that's something that can really appeal to young people right is understanding that they're sort of pawns in a giant game that they were born into, and so understanding how technology works is one of the very first steps. That a lot of people just don't really realize because we just use these tools right. They're just right there. A lot of people think of you know Facebook, instagram, you know Snapchat all that kind of stuff is their own personal newsletter. Here's what my friends are up to, all of that kind of thing. But really each of these platforms are actually very sophisticated marketing platforms. That's how they make the billions of dollars, you know, and it's because they they're selling ads, they're selling ad times. They're going to do all sorts of things to get your eyeballs back on whatever, on whatever platform that is. So that's notifications bringing you back. You know when you're like, hey, I'm just in class and all of a sudden I'm getting a notification, and if they're trying to bring you back, because a lot of people think money is their biggest commodity, but right now in this economy, it's actually your attention. Where are you putting your time? Are you building skills, and you know, building your hockey skills and that sort of thing or are you spending time online and, you know, kind of letting big tech own you in a little way and bring you back to what you want to do. So you know there's a lot of the Social Dilemma is a great. It's an older documentary but it's a really great one to watch. It really talks about the tricks that are employed by these social media groups to actually manipulate people and they're really deep psychological tricks. It's very hard for people to get through them because they're based deep in who we are as people and again with the goal of advertising and selling those dollars. So one of the things that I found works fairly well with teenagers particularly is don't let big tech own you. Like. Become aware of how this whole online experience, you know, has sort of developed. And yes, you've been born into it. Yes, it's just part of your world right now, but take a bigger look at it and see how that you know, instead of letting them own you. How can you own it? How can you make sure that your time is yours? That you know. Even though you're participating as yourself, you know that you're still understanding that there's. You know there's a lot going on. That there's, you know there's a lot going on. There's people collecting your data, almost everything that you're writing, you know they're. They're taking a look at that and trying to decide again. It's not somebody sitting back there, you know, behind a curtain being like, hey, you know what is Jason, you know, interested in today. I'm going to advertise these things. It's all automatic. It's really.
Speaker 1:It's an intense process for a human to come up against because it's you know, there's a lot of things built in to manipulate people and bring them back to the platforms. So, as a young person, that's the first thing is. I know you're building character and thinking about who you're going to be, but ultimately, you know, think about your relationship with these technology platforms in general and how are they healthy for you. And some people are going to find I need a full break from this. Some people may decide to minimize. Other people might be like you know what I need to spend more time, more conscious time, online and building relationships and networks there.
Speaker 1:But just being aware that it is a platform, there's a lot of information and data being collected about you and what you're doing and talking about, and you know thinking about that and being like, okay, which things, which parts of my life, like we're all, a whole person, right, we have a whole circle. But which parts of your life are you willing to share online? So, for me, I have children, but I don't really talk about that on my social media. I occasionally put some things out on Facebook that sort of thing, but that's you know. I'm there professionally, I'm thinking consciously about the types of things I'm putting up and I think everybody, no matter what age, needs to be thinking about that. So be authentic, but no matter what, even if it feels like a private group, be thinking about what parts of yourself you're willing to share and how you want to be perceived.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that and actually that is something that you know. The similar message may be a little bit different words, but that is one thing. When there's a week in my program where it's a lot of personal development and mindset stuff for hockey players and and one of the weeks in week four, we talk about the controllables and I break down these five controllables and one of the controllables I talk about with athletes is habits. Right, so your habits are something that you can, are within your control and, generally speaking, if we can dial in those habits and we can make them be without thinking, right you're, you're really a step ahead of things. Now, part of one of the exercises within that week is a thing I call stops and starts. So, uh, you know, what can we stop or or or do less of and what do we want to start? And guess what the thing is that, like you know, vast majority of the guys say are girls. You know it's what they want to stop. They want to be on their phones less they legitimately want to be.
Speaker 2:And then the conversation turns to essentially what you just said. I think it speaks to the competitive nature, at least of the people that I speak with and work with is like you're losing. You know, like you're really losing. Every time that you have been on that phone or been on that game or been in whatever social you know social platform for longer than you intended to, you've lost and they've won. You know, and and so I mean exactly what you're saying. Right, it's like being self-aware enough to catch yourself that you know this is, this wasn't my plan. Right, I wasn't. I didn't want to be on TikTok for two hours. And why you don't feel good about it is because you know that's not the best way you could use your time. Right, like there's, there actually is a feedback loop within you that's telling you this isn't what you should be doing, and I mean this is pretty mature stuff.
Speaker 2:I think I mean what we're talking about, because I know numerous adults that have a hard time recognizing that too, but at least I think that that there is a you know, there is something there that people can get their hooks in. You know, like these young guys, and then you can actually plan, like I. It's. One thing I try and say is like, why are you on tiktok? Like it's totally okay not to be in the puck, I mean in the garage shooting pucks your whole life and working out your. I mean there's a need to chill and relax and get a laugh, but just recognize what it is like when you need that and how much of it you need. You know, and if we can architect that a little bit more, I think that's. That's a big advantage for the players that take it seriously enough to do that.
Speaker 1:You know. I love that because there are so many productivity studies out there and basically how social media is affecting productivity. And so, whether that's, you know your development of your sports skills, you know just social skills, spending time with people in real life. You know education, all the different things you can be doing. It's a good example of a parent who had taken the phone away and she said it was amazing she watched her kid go out and learn how to do backflips, which they never would have done had the phone not been taken away you know, I do backflips on the trampoline, you know, and that's that's kind of the nature of it, right?
Speaker 1:If you think about it, most of us have smartphones in North America. So if you go and take a look at your smartphone it will tell you how much time you're spending per day on social media. And experts say you should be spending less than two hours a day, and that's also a lot. There's some who say half an hour, you know. So a lot of people are far past that. So if you think about it and you're like, hey, I've spent more than two hours a day, what else could you have been doing with that time? But then you know, if you go into it even further, there's really interesting studies out there. Like even just having your phone around around, learning is really interesting.
Speaker 1:There's studies that you know. There's a group that they had three different groups trying to learn something. So the first group was given their phone to learn something. The second group was given just, you know, they had their phone nearby but was just told to, you know, kind of go through the learning process. And the third group no phone, no, anything. The only group that actually learned was the group who did not have their phone near them at all, and so we actually talk about that.
Speaker 1:You know, when we do a lot of our productivity training is get your you know. If you have something important to do or something you really want to learn, get that phone right out of the room. Because there's a part of our unconscious brain that even if we're, you know, focused on what we're doing, just your phone sitting there. There's a part of you who's like kind of waiting for it. Right, where's that ding coming? Where's that notification coming? I'm aware that it's there and so it actually draws you know different things. Also, the way that people are learning is very different right now. In the past, people would learn with the idea that you're almost developing a library in your head and so that later you know if you need to go find some information, you can go rummage through the library and find that information. The way that people are learning now is that they're actually learning how to find the information.
Speaker 1:So the information itself is not being retained. In the same way, people's ability to actually go find that information in online searching is becoming a whole new way that we're actually thinking as a human being. Yeah, and so you know there's massive changes that are going on from a physical perspective, from a, you know, from just a habit perspective. That's just really a new area for all humans to navigate, and so thinking about that and that productivity piece is massive because it actually has a physical effect on us, and so if you're really wanting to optimize yourself and optimizing the way that you're spending your days, I would recommend being exceptionally conscious about how you're using your phone and your social media time.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to take a short break from my conversation with Katrina to give a shout out and celebrate those athletes in BC, saskatchewan, alberta and Manitoba who have already received invitations to the UMH 68 invitation or who are about to receive invitations to the UMH 68 invitational.
Speaker 2:It's an exciting time right now. We're getting our invitations out, our phase one invitations, uh, to the events in may and june and uh, super exciting time for everyone involved in umh 68. Uh, I have representatives. We're coming to manitoba for the first time this june. Craig geeky, a former teammate of mine for the spokane chiefs, is is being my on-the-ground man there in Manitoba. If you're not familiar with Craig's name, I'm sure you are familiar with Morgan and Connor, his two boys, who are currently NHLers. And yeah, he's going to be bringing a 2011 event to Brandon Manitoba. Excited about that. If you are listening from Manitoba, and if you have a 2011 who is exceeding expectations and who is rising to the top of his age group, by all means make sure that we know who you are. It is our job to find the best players, but it is also your job to make sure that you are found. You can do that by going to the Up my Hockey website underneath the UMH 68. There is a watch list for your age group. What does that mean? That means that you put your name on the list, you tell us why you should join the UMH 68, why you deserve to be there. You provide a reference which is your coach for us to get in touch with to validate your eligibility, and we'll get some eyes on you and if we feel that you are ready for the UMH 68, you may receive an invite. So that's one way to do it. If you are a coach out there listening and you want to refer a player, that is an awesome way to do it as well. Get on our watch list form and fill out a form for your player. Great to get the local community involved. Again, it's for in Brandon. It's for anyone from Manitoba in a 2011 age group. That's going to be an exciting time. In Saskatchewan, we are dealing with Hugh Hamilton, another ex-Spokane chief partner of mine, a heck of a hockey player in his own right, played pro for a while, and he has an up-and-coming star in Calder Hamilton. I believe he was the fifth overall pick in the 2009 Born at WHL draft class, so exciting time to watch Calder come along and he's going to be handling a 2012 event in Martinsville, saskatchewan, so that'll be happening in June. Again, if you are listening in Saskatchewan, if you know a 2012 player, if you have a 2012 player that you would like to represent or have be represented, by all means get on the watch list. That's going to be an exciting time.
Speaker 2:And Alberta we're coming for you too. We're going to be in Canmore, alberta, at the end of May. Jason Holland is going to be helping me there, along with a couple other coaches that have been announced. Chris Joseph, a longtime NHL and former teammate of mine. Also, martin Sonnenberg is going to be involved.
Speaker 2:We are bringing an event to Canmore and that's for the 2012 age group. So, again, the watch lists are on the website. Invitations have gone out and will continue to go out. We are going to fill these events with 68 of the best and brightest from each province for a competitive, developmental and educational weekend. We put all the players on four different teams. They are guaranteed five games, lots of special perks, lots of special benefits and features from an Up my Hockey event, and you're going to be happy that you were involved. So, yeah, let's get excited about the watch list idea. Let's get some players' names coming in and really excited to bring these events to the new provinces. A big expansion for the Up my Hockey brand and the UMH 68 Invitational BC. We're definitely more well-known this is our third year running now and there is a lot of chatter going on. So, yeah, that's somewhere you can follow us at UMH 68 on Instagram. You can also find us on the Facebook page. So, yes, congratulations to all of you who received invitations, and there's more to be coming. And now let's get back to our conversation with Katrina German.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, for those listening, like I think that we all, I'll just share a story, like I thought again, I sit at my desk a lot with what I have to do with work. You know, whatever admin setting up calls you know doing, you know doing my, doing my uh, marketing and all that kind of stuff, and so the phone's there and do I want to be in front of my computer all the time? No, and so we need to have some type of a disconnect from the million things that are going on. So one of my disconnects was playing chess on my phone healthy habit, I thought, right, um, I would sit back and that'd be my 10 minutes, whatever you know, play a couple games of chess and then come back. Well, it turned into, like anytime I'd have like a positive thought, or you know, I mean, was it maybe a little bit not super clear on what my objective was? Maybe at that moment then, like then, like you said, the phone's there, I would grab it and I'd play chess, and then I started realizing that I was playing way more chess than I was Right and and it was it to a spot where it wasn't something that was, it was initially serving a purpose, and then now it was like a distraction, essentially. So I mean, what did I do?
Speaker 2:I don't have chess on my phone anymore, so you know, like, but those are hard decisions to make, I think, as teenagers, right Like to win, I mean, is it? Do we have, you know, is there not? Do we go zero policy? Right? Do we? Do we have some type of an alarm system? I guess there's not a right way, because everyone's wired different and everyone's going to make different choices. But I think the big thing is is to recognize that you can make a choice right, like, I think, if you can at least recognize that that there is a choice to be made and you don't become unconscious about the way you're living. I think that is a big enough tool almost in and of itself.
Speaker 1:Agreed, agreed, and you know there's software tools out there that can help you. If you're finding that you just can't make that decision yourself, some of the platforms themselves will build it in where they'll give you a notification and say hey, you said you only wanted to be on here for an hour. I think TikTok does that. You know you only want to be here for an hour. You know it's now or now and you want to keep going. You know, but a lot of people are just going to ignore that sort of thing. But you really just you know, if you want to be conscious about this, actually putting in some software, you know and thinking about it can be exceptionally helpful. You know, and ultimately like to your point, jason, it's really about how it makes you feel and I think that's a really important thing to be thinking about like. So I was talking about how much you should be on the phone. You know less than two hours a day and again, ideally even more or even less. But you know it's also one of those things where it's you know, if you're finding you're spending a lot of time online where it's actually causing problems in your life, where people are saying, hey, hold on, it's actually causing problems in your life where people are saying, hey, hold on, I every time I try to talk to you, you know you leave the conversation to go to your phone. Uh, we've been out for dinner as a family and nobody's talked to each other this whole time, cause we've all been on our phones. Um, you know things like you know a partner being a girlfriend, boyfriend being like hey, I, you know, I, just I don't. I feel like you're so online it's causing problems for my life. That's when you know that it might be getting into a problem area, potentially addiction, that sort of thing and so there are a lot of counselors and such. There's a whole new area of counseling that's come out of people who specifically work in online addiction. So if it's causing issues with yourself and the way you're perceiving yourself and what you want to accomplish in your life, as well as people around you are commenting on and stuff, it's that's when you know it's actually probably gone from.
Speaker 1:I'm using this a lot into. Okay, I may have crossed a line here and I need to maybe really do some. I might be deeper in than than other people and so I might need to do some backing up and the other part, too, is you're talking about feels right, like there's a lot of mental health issues that are. You know, when I first started studying this, we gathered up all the academic research we could find from around the world about how social media was affecting people's wellbeing. And you know spoiler alert there's absolutely a correlation and when we first started this it was saying correlation. We think, you know, when you're using this, you know it becomes this.
Speaker 1:But now there's a lot of studies coming out saying there's a causation between social media use and things like anxiety, depression, sleep disorders, uh, self-image, um, a lot of different pieces and uh, so you know, really thinking about, no matter what you're doing online, is this making me feel better or is this making me feel worse?
Speaker 1:Because it can be a really nice place to relax, can be a great place to connect with friends, have a good laugh, you know, do a connection point. But you know, if you're on there and you're suddenly like you know, I'm following all these people and I just feel like I'm not enough or I am, you know this. You know I actually feel gross after watching some of the things that I just watched. You know, it just got me. I don't feel better. Stop. You know this is really a time where you're going to know what's right for you. Nobody else is monitoring what you're doing online except for you. You know even your parents all that kind of stuff. They're probably trying, but you know you're you're having way more hours than anybody could possibly monitor. So thinking about that and being like is this making me better or is this making me feel worse, can be one of the best things that you can do for yourself, because that mental health pieces is really big.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the you mentioned the time there. I saw that on like the Canadian recommended whatever. It almost made me throw up in my mouth because it was like two to three hours a day. I mean I'm going to get this wrong, but whatever it was. It was like 3, five x more time is recommended on day than exercising or outside. It was like 30 minutes outside and like three hours.
Speaker 2:I'm like what? Like yeah, how does that get like, how does that get so upside down already and and almost be like, how is that normalized enough that, like the Canadian government is putting that out there, like I think it is, it's gotten so topsy-turvy that it's. It is a little bit scary and and I think it's even scary in who I work with, which is kids who want to be great hockey players yes, right, like them. Like they have a drive, they have a goal, like they are doing more than the vast majority of teenagers, I think, out there and they're experiencing this as an issue like I could not even imagine having a kid that doesn't really know what they want to do and just comes home from school and really has no drive or mission. Like it must be an epidemic in like in some spots. So, yeah, it kind of just blows my mind like how, how intrusive you know it is and can be if we let it, you know, if we let it.
Speaker 2:I don't know I'm not here to give parenting advice, but like that, let it, you know, if we let it. I don't know I'm not here to give parenting advice, but like that. The one thing that just personally drives me crazy and one thing we didn't do as as the family young family going out, was like no one had an iPad at a table when they were five or four or six, right, like, and I just like, when I see that now I'm like, oh my god, like you're so conditioning them to be, like, not present all the time. You know and is, and is it? Is it for me as the customer in the restaurant because maybe they might, you know, make a loud noise? Is it for you because you don't want to be disturbed? Or, uh, I don't know, I I do. I do get a little fired up over that one because it's like gosh, like that's all these kids have ever known, right.
Speaker 2:And now you and I are having this conversation. That like, probably, I guess, right Like, if a 15 year old is listening to this, they're probably in that generation that has had an iPad in front of their face since they've been one, so they don't know any different. And now they're supposed to be able to regulate somehow, right Like? That's pretty unfair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. It is Cause a lot of those skill buildings and a lot of those like things that you learned when you're very young the interpersonal skills, the connection with parents, eye contact you know we're actually seeing a decrease in eye contact. A lot of people are being diagnosed as having autism and things like that, because, you know, that's sort of that's a broad generalization. Some people are being diagnosed as being on the spectrum because they're just not making eye contact and it's not because they're not doing it, it's just they never learned, they were on, you know, they were on screens and such, and a lot of those just interpersonal skills that we have when we're connecting with people are just sort of missing and, uh, you don't need to be learned, rather than and then than walking away from that.
Speaker 1:And it is a thing, right, and it's a thing for adults too, right, like it's one of those things where we're also deeply reaching in. You know we're bored and in the past we might look around like go for a little walk. We might, you know, sing a know, sing a little song, figure out a problem in our mind, you know, whatever, um, but now it's like hey, I'm bored for two seconds, phone out, you know.
Speaker 2:And uh, being bored is amazing, by the way, I say that like it's, it's like one of the best things you can be is bored, like it allows you to be creative, it allows you to find other things to do, it allows you to sit with your thoughts. Like the fact that nobody is bored ever anymore is crazy to me. Like I think that's such a disservice too is like, yeah, find something interesting about life or figure out something on your own about you, uh, and if you never have that time, because flipping tiktoks in your face or whatever the else is going on there, it's just, yeah, it kind of gets scary. Actually, one of uh, of the open, open, uh, dirty laundry in our house. So one of my kids you know whatever misbehaves he got his phone taken away for for a month. No, not a month, a week, a week. Let's not go, that's not to go.
Speaker 2:It was honestly like the best thing for the entire family in some ways, because that that son of mine was then more present, because he just was forced to be right and so then that made us all be more present. That made us like we played clue a few times this week when we wouldn't have otherwise right, like we. There was just things that happened in our house just because one of us out of five didn't have their device you, you know, and they were bored and they needed to interact, right, human interaction. Like it was really cool, like it was a really. It wasn't meant to be an experiment, but it turned out to be like a super positive thing. So, yeah, I mean the challenge is out there. I mean I think that we all know whether we were born with it or whether we were born without it. It's been introduced to us that things just feel better when we're around people making connections.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that's that's really car, quite core to the human experience, and that's you know what we're here for. And you know if there's any parents out there who are kind of like I don't know. You know there's a lot of information coming out and what we're seeing is that it's not going to be just you who's going to have to probably enforce this, like, of course, that's your job as a parent, but sometimes it's difficult when you have. You know everybody at school is online, right, they're missing out on their social life. They're okay. That's how my kid communicates with their friends. Is they game online? You know things like that.
Speaker 1:But there are some things that are happening in the regulation space that are making it much easier for parents to be able to do this.
Speaker 1:So, for example, a lot of schools I know in Saskatchewan they just cut out phones for elementary schools and then they have them only on breaks for high schools. Australia just banned social media for anybody under the age of 16. Now, I know everybody's going to try to get around it and all that kind of stuff, but in the meantime, a lot of the regulators are finally starting to see the true issue this is having for our young people and the true impact it's having on their lives and are starting to make it so that the structures around this are going to be supporting parents a little bit more too in the future, of being able to kind of create and enforce these rules, you know, if they choose to, because it is, it's difficult, like it's. You know I would take my kid's phone away and it wasn't, I wasn't just taking away you know his fun gaming time, I was taking away his communication with his friends, you know, and his, you know his time online and you know learning in the way he learns, and you know so.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of pieces around there that were you know, that were a thing, and I actually really appreciate that some of the regulatory bodies are starting to see this and make it easier for parents to be like. It's not just you, nobody else at high school is going to have their phone either for this week, except for on breaks you know things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, yeah, I mean in some ways like, I mean in some ways it's unfair, really right. I mean to just all of a sudden be like ah, you know, no, this is all. You've probably feel isolated, and that's probably where some of these mental health things come in. But I do think there's a way to manage it, and I think when you include kids in the discussion like that's really the best part and it sounds like that's what you're doing I think there's way more buy-in when it's like what do you think? Like, how do you want to spend your time? I mean, what do you want to accomplish this week? You know, how do you feel after you do this, and then they, they start answering those own questions and then you give them some tools and some ways to maybe manage themselves and then all of a sudden, we have confidence because we're making new decisions and we're doing things that we didn't do before and we feel better about ourselves.
Speaker 2:And I think I think when you put as much ownership as you can in in the hands and minds of of these, of these young, young boys and girls like they, they usually they usually come through pretty loud and clear. Right, it's really exciting. I love where I love working with the athletes I work with, because they want to be good, you know, and sometimes they just need some tools and some encouragement to do that. When it comes to when it comes to the bullying aspect, I think we should probably cover this because I think I might go a different direction with it. At least, maybe I don't know Like am I a fan of bullies? Not at all.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But I don't feel that we're really equipping anyone anymore to how to deal with a bully, and how we are equipping them to deal with it, I think, is completely wrong for the most part, like so how do you can we talk about maybe that whole thing as a package? Like you know, the presence of what a bully is online, what that may look like in the context of who my audience is, and and and. Yeah, and then let's just start there.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. There's a lot of different forms of bullying that happens online, right? They're from the smallest nuance of someone's being funny and I use quotation marks and it's taking someone down, even in their friend group and WhatsApp or Instagram. Can you know? You know, and they're, just like you know, cutting down their buddy. You know that kind of thing. That's a really minor version. You know up to the very extreme things where people are completely being canceled. You know there's actually entire troll farms out there who just try to make people feel worse.
Speaker 2:What does that mean? Can we break that down?
Speaker 1:Cause that's kind of like, and I'm probably completely naive to some of the stuff that's happening, yeah, but there's entire groups out there who are out there who are actually trying actively to spread information to make people who are thinking in a different philosophical way than them, to make them feel bad, and so there's actually like trolls for hire, essentially, where you can actually find these companies who will go out, and it's kind of part of corporate espionage and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So there's, so it's actually. I'm going to say, well, what's the business model? So it's an actual business model. This is like I could advertise for this. Is it like an underground advertising or is it straight up in your face if you want to look at it?
Speaker 1:Sometimes both. Yeah, like I think, you know it's probably a bit of dark web. There's also, there's some groups who would, you know, pose as a legitimate business, who are willing to do that, so, and then there's also, you know, different countries, right? This is a big espionage, is a massive area in the digital space where people are actually purposely sending misinformation into different countries in order to divide countries, you know, have issues with their democracy. Things like that, like these, are actually things that are happening and being studied across across the internet.
Speaker 1:So you know, this whole issue and basically how we make people feel, you know, comes from the smallest of friend groups of somebody who made somebody feel worse, you know, instead of better. Up to you know very extreme things where people are actually committing suicide or companies are going down, you know, or things like this that are, you know, we're losing market share, and you know there's a lot of different and you know there's a lot of very extreme variations when it comes to cyberbullying. But what we're, you know, when we're talking about sort of the things that most people are dealing with, it tends to be sort of within a friend group or somebody from their school or team or whatever is, you know, just put something up that's inappropriate, you know, and made that person feel embarrassed. And it's different than bullying, than when we were growing up, right, because you know something might happen, there might be an incident and it might live on in a few people's memories, but you know it would be gone, right, it was going to happen in reality, whereas sometimes the bullying things that can happen now it's online.
Speaker 1:Somebody's entire name is, you know, attached to a certain YouTube video or something like that, which can have really big repercussions, and so, you know, to the way that they're feeling and experiencing the world, but also you know communicating. So there's actually several steps that you can take with how this is shaking out. So the first you know some of these things. You know like anything might just be best to ignore it, right, you know if it's not going to be a big deal. You know all that kind of stuff. The second step is you know the old school of hey, just talk to your buddy and be like man, that's kind of like super uncool, you know. And then you'd have to figure out. You know your friend group and how you're going to. You know communicate that and within the way that you communicate, but then you know if that's not going to be the way that's happening a lot of these social media platforms.
Speaker 1:If you report it but it's often you don't need to. You know, if it's just one person reporting it, it often might not get the attention that it want, you want from the social media platform. So reaching out to a few other friends, asking relatives even, you know, to go and report the specific thing, is one of the best ways to get that taken down too. And then you know after that, you know it's kind of the escalation of it. If it's, you know if it's, if it's that bad, if it's something that's a problem like this is when you need to bring in a little bit of extra help. Right, like you need to. You need to not feel alone as you're going through that experience, as a person experiencing it. So bringing in a team of you know your parents, your, you know your coaches, your, you know your, your school teachers, whatever the case is, to work on it together and you know people that you trust to kind of be like all right, we've, you know, gone to the social media platforms to try to get this taken down. This person is still doing it. You know, whatever the case is, and you know, knowing that if there's anything, anything like, no matter what your age is, if you have anything with nudity in any form, like even if someone you know is creating something that's a fake or anything like that, that can be considered child pornography and that can be very serious and be escalated to the police, which happens pretty regularly actually in school systems and so just don't, just don't. You know anything with private parts, anything with. You know anything that you need. You know, hey, this girl's hot, this guy's hot, you know any of that kind of stuff. Like, just be conscious and think about how you would feel if someone was putting that about you. So it's just always that quick check.
Speaker 1:And I'm going to do a quick talk just about humor in general, because you know a lot of people are figuring out humor and there's sometimes, you know humor is one of those things that you know it's funny.
Speaker 1:When everybody feels it's funny, it can be, you know, if one person is sort of getting taken down by another person, that's when you know humor can get a little bit sketchy.
Speaker 1:So always be thinking about it Like, does this get this guy or girl?
Speaker 1:You know that I'm teasing.
Speaker 1:Do they know that I still value and love them, you know?
Speaker 1:Or is this going to take them to a part where they're going to be feeling this later, you know, and just just thinking it through ahead of time, and if you've done something, you've crossed a line and someone's let you know also apologizing, like actually going through those steps, you know, taking it down and being like, hey, I'm sorry, actually I didn't think about that, I was just trying to be funny. But you know what I'm going to think about this again in the future, because if this is a skill that we all need to have, is how do we communicate online with each other and, you know, how do we make sure that what we're sharing with each other is going to lift us up and connect us more rather than, you know, make somebody feel like less than, and so being conscious of that type of communication can be really powerful. And also, just honestly, people are going to like you more, they're going to want to spend more time with you if you're making them feel better rather than if you're making them feel worse.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm going to take a short break from the conversation with Katrina to give a shout out to Darren Morrison and Memory Keeper. You've heard Memory Keeper mentioned a couple of times here in our discussion and, since we are being more cognitive of where we are placing our pictures and how we are representing ourselves and who might be out there with our best interests not at heart when it comes to the photos and things that we are posting, platforms like Memory Keeper kprmemorykeepercom could be a great avenue for you to pursue, and my buddy, darren Morrison, he's involved with Memory Keeper. It's essentially a safe place, safe, private place for your team's legacy to stay. It's, it's essentially a safe place, safe, private place for your team's legacy to stay, you know, to remember the year, to, to remember the events, to share pictures, uh, videos, et cetera, uh, within an environment that you control. Uh, when it comes to hockey teams, it's also a great place, uh for fundraising, to use as a fundraising platform and uh, and there's lots of good things to go with that. So, uh, darren Morrison, would love to help you out if you're interested in a fundraising platform, a place to keep your pictures, videos and stuff safe in a community that you control and protect the legacy of your team, then that may be something you want to talk to him about, and that's at 403-998-8026. Or darrenmorrison, at memorykeepercom. That's kprcom. Again, he'd be happy to have a discussion with you.
Speaker 2:I have no affiliation with Memory Keeper. It just seems like they're doing good things there and if this is something that speaks to you, by all means I'm willing to connect people with good products who are wanting to do things. So, uh, yes, uh, lots of good stuff here. So let's get back to the conversation with Katrina German. Thank you, the nudity thing I think we got to touch on, um, I mean, I'm just trying to think about my audience.
Speaker 2:I mean there are some young listeners, but like there's a real thing and I know more from the male side, so I can't speak to the female side. I'm sure it must exist in some capacity, but I will just speak through my own experience with who I've been chatting with, like some of these guys, some of these hockey players I don't know, I don't really know if it matters where they play or how. You know how high up they are in the status quo of these things, but they become let's call them I don't know targets, but not targets in a negative way. Like like, females will seek them out like it's.
Speaker 2:It's portrayed a lot I have to explain this better. It's portrayed a lot that that the boys will be trying to get photos, these, these, these pictures from girls, right, like Like, send me this, send me that, and that's been kind of talked about. I think that's been seen on, you know on on, uh, you know in the news outlets, right, that this thing can happen, but there's many occasions where this is not, they're not seeking it, that it actually just gets delivered, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like. So in that scenario, well, first of all, like yes, I appreciate you saying that, like don't ask. Like you really need to be really cognizant of that, as much as everything in your body is telling you that you want to see this and you want to ask, like you have to find this boundary because there is like a legal issue that's happening there. But what does if we can get past that? Like what happens if somebody sends you something that you never necessarily asked for? Like what's the protocol?
Speaker 1:You know, I think ultimately you can just ignore it, right, you know, or delete it or I don't. You know, whatever it's something you're happy with, great, but it's, you know, uh, that's probably going to happen where people are just going to send some things out. So I want to come back and talk about privacy a little bit. You know down the road about how to set those types.
Speaker 2:Can I just ask you one question real quick, like is that is that and I know probably a 15, 16 year old isn't thinking about like legal court system stuff but having that on your phone, even if you didn't ask for it, and somebody sent it to you, like what you're talking about, that is some type of like you've broken some type of law, correct?
Speaker 1:I would. I would absolutely delete anything that's ahead that appears to have anybody under the age of 18. Absolutely, I just wouldn't even touch it, I wouldn't even fool with it.
Speaker 1:You know, that's just it's something that you know, it's that important and can have some serious repercussions. And for me, the thing is is actually there's actually a fairly big thing going on for Canadian youth and a few months ago it hit the news um, it's called sextortion and uh, so it's actually people from other countries who are coming in imposing or not even other countries could be someone local, but who are coming in imposing as somebody that you may think you know, or somebody who's attracted to you, or whatever the case is.
Speaker 1:they may send a few of their own nudes, you know, but they're probably not their own you know, know pictures and then request one in return, and so a lot of young people have been kind of, you know, coerced into I'm going to share this, or you know we can. Even you know, well, let's do this extortion for now, so they share it and then I all of a sudden, you know this person's like, I am going to share this with everybody at your school, or I'm going to share this with your mom, you know, if you don't give me this kind of money, and there's actually been suicides that have come out of that kind of an issue. So sexortion is actually a pretty big thing that's targeting a lot of North American youth. This can also just happen between relationships, right? You know it's very rare that you know a teenage relationship lasts into adulthood, that you know a teenage relationship lasts into adulthood, and you know, and so if people are even sharing things in, you know, when they're young with their partner, you know they're, you know something they're dating, you know trusting, that that's not going to go and you know a couple friends of that person is not going to see that picture and stuff is a little naive. So you know, do not share nude pictures of yourself unless you're just planning to have them online and you're comfortable with that. You know to that. You know to that other level too, around the idea of privacy, like privacy is a pretty massive area. So you're spending some time and actually being like I don't want to receive any messages from people I don't know or I don't follow. You know things like that.
Speaker 1:I'm also going to say, just into the teams area I work I do a lot of work with Memory Keeper. Say, just into the teams area I work I do a lot of work with Memory Keeper. It's Memory KPR, and they work with sports teams because a lot of people were even putting pictures up and she uses the example. Jessica McNaughton is her name, the founder. She took over a girls volleyball Facebook page and, within a couple days, had about 100 requests of men from around North America who had no connection to the team whatsoever, who are trying to grow, you know, trying to join this private group of volleyball young volleyball women, and so, basically, like social media is just, you know, it's a real magnet for people who are maybe, you know, not not thinking the right. You know the ways we'd like for people to be taking, you know respecting our yeah and uh, so.
Speaker 1:So basically, you know, memory keeper, that's what they do is actually create a platform for teams to share and other groups to share who have private things like that. You know you don't want your data being used and all that kind of stuff, but you can still have this capsule where you're sharing all this information with other teammates and you know, and grandmas and grandpas that are approved and things like that, but it's not actually like allowing kind of these, these images and such to get out beyond, uh, beyond the team and so yeah, so you know, and there's, you know, a lot of issues like that. And again, coming to thinking about it, you know some of the people are also. They want to go professional, they want to own their own image and to be thinking about that. They don't want, you know, someone's mom to have a bad picture of them.
Speaker 1:You know, like you know, that going around the internet, as they've, you know, wiped out on the on the you know, or something like that. You know they want to be owning their own image and what they're putting online with the idea that that'll have, you know, future influencer kind of benefits and uh. So you know that's another thing that you know memory keeper can do is to help, is just to kind of keep that contained so that people can really own their own online images.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean there's, there is some bad actors, I don't know. I choose. I choose to perceive the world through good intentions. You know, like that's the lens that I consciously pick. But you know, you can't be naive about it either. You know, like there is, there is some people out there that don't have great intentions and uh, and it's super sad, especially with the youth today, that we do have to be vigilant with some of that stuff. Uh for sure, crazy. I don't have daughters. I have three boys and, uh, the boys are, the boys are challenging enough. I could imagine how my, how my male brain would be working if I was having teenage daughters in my life.
Speaker 2:But yeah, can we talk about the bullying? And this is maybe like, not necessarily what you're doing, but like I'm going to give you an acronym that at my boys' elementary school they were using and obviously with good intentions, and it was WITS was how they wanted people to deal with bullying, and the W was walk away, the I was ignore, the T was talk it out and the w was walk away, the I was ignore, the t was talk it out and the s was seek help. And I never liked it from the get-go like that. Your first response is to walk away. Your second response is to ignore. The third is to talk it out like that. And then the fourth is seek help. It was just, I don't know. It's like. It's such a victim mentality, like right from the start, you know and and not even addressing at all of like, why does this make you feel this way? Which I think is like the first question you should ask. You know, like, uh, I'm just going to bounce into like a hockey locker room scenario. Like I remember I got to trade a lot. I mean, I was, uh, I was a suitcase, as people would call it.
Speaker 2:So I played on a lot of different teams and and every time you walk into a new environment, it's a group of guys that a lot of times, you've never met before.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes you know one or two guys and for me, the time that I knew that I was accepted and that I was welcomed was when I got ripped on.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, yeah, like they, I was accepted, they would make fun of whatever right and hockey, and so, like, that's totally like the culture that I grow up in and it it was, like you know, it kind of helped you in some ways because, like, the less that did affect you, the stronger you were, in whatever capacity, right On the ice, off ice, you know, in social situations, if I can be the first to laugh at myself or the first to recognize some type of you know handicap, let's say it, or whatever it is right, like then I do become a little bit more bulletproof, you know, and so that was kind of how I was raised, and then to see this being like walk away, ignore it, talk it out, and nobody talking about the infrastructure, about why this is so impactful for you. Like there's a few things that concern me about that. Like how do you do you think that we're talking today's youth improperly? Like do we're making them victims? Do you think that's a piece of it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, you know, I think resilience is just a huge, massive question, no matter what right, no matter youth, or youth or adults, and you know the idea of, yeah, why do I feel that way?
Speaker 1:I also think just because our youth, just almost everything that happens, you know, is I find like I remember being a teenager, like it was yesterday. I remember almost every moment of it, you know, because it's just so impactful. You know, compared to my 30s were a blur, I don't know, but it's, it's. It's one of those things where you know that type of age, everything can have such an impact. And so if you have, you know, the internal support systems to be like, oh, haha, you know, like I'm one of the guys you know, or whatever you know, it is that you're able to do that, but there's some people who don't have that right.
Speaker 1:So I think you know it's really about, yeah, the intention behind it, as you perceive it, and then you're right, how did that impact me? And then, okay, what am I going to? You know, is this something I'm going to let get to me, or is this just like a whatever you know kind of thing? And so, yeah, like I'm not a bullying expert by any means, but it is one of those things for me that I just think resilience in general and being able to come back from these things is incredibly important, but it'd also be nice if you know the original trigger wasn't happening in the first place yeah, no, yeah, I agree, right, I mean it's, I'm totally with you on that.
Speaker 2:it's like, like, let let's totally deal with the side of like why are you bullying? Like what is the? I mean like, let's deal with the bully for sure. But I think that what to me, it seems like there's been so much emphasis on that being bad, that we're not enabling or empowering people with what they can do about it in a way that actually makes them feel like good and empowered. You know, one of the things we talk about my program is is FOPO, and that's still sold in from Michael Gervais, but he talks about fear of other people's opinion.
Speaker 2:Like that is such a big thing for people, right, like, what do other people think? And then, if we can actually break that down in times when we're bored without we're without our phone, right, we have a little time, see that. I mean, what does it like? Why do we care? You know, why do we care about someone that we don't know what they think or what they're going to say? Like, how does that impact us? And why would? Why should it? Yeah, I mean, there's so many things to unpack with that that I do get passionate about, but I, I do think in a teenage head or even an adult head, like the more comfortable you can be with yourself, the less, the less penetrable you are. You know, really, at the end of the day, learn to laugh at yourself, learn to have those conversations right, learn to accept some things that aren't perfect. You know, and I think that's maybe where the social media aspect comes from, because it is a highlight reel generally all the time.
Speaker 2:And you know, it is not real in a lot of capacities, yet I think maybe in the teenage brain it really does seem real.
Speaker 2:you, know that's all you're seeing, right, yeah, so that is dangerous, right, because we're not, you know, I mean, we're definitely not. And uh, you know you're not, I'm not, nobody is. And I think the the more that we can like sometimes, like, for instance, like I'll put something stupid on online, like that doesn't make me look good. That's like a a one take thing that I stutter over a word or whatever and I misplace it, and it's on purpose. It's totally on purpose. I didn't try to make the mistake. It wasn't like I was trying to look bad or have bad lighting and have my nose look big or whatever, but it's like. You know what? That's okay. It's okay. Life goes on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the okay yeah, it's okay right. Life goes on, yeah, and you know the amount of work it takes to create content right if you have a mistake, just sometimes like yeah, and you know, I think personal test and I'm only relaying that because, like that is, that is a conscious choice that you can make out there, whether you're 15 or 16.
Speaker 2:Like you can be the one in the post to post a stupid picture, yes, like why wait for the bully? Or like I mean, if you've already done it and you've had the laugh, it's like does it matter if somebody puts you out on there and then you have pink shorts on the one day and you didn't want to wear them? You know, it's like, I don't know, it's just like we can kind of take it the bull by the horns in some capacity. Right, and we can, we can experiment with that and we can feel good about how we're experiment with it and we're putting ourselves in a powerful spot. So you know, make conscious choices, that's one of my things.
Speaker 2:Own your online image is one of my things now right, be real, be real, yes, uh, yeah, we covered a lot, I think. Uh, I think we're probably good. Is there anything you? Is there anything we haven't covered that you want to, that you want to talk about or share?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, no. I think the big thing is, you know, just the fact that people have heard this and I'm starting to think about it. That's the first step, right, it's just awareness that this is an issue and, uh, and a lot of people don't realize it because it's just part of how their day goes. So everybody who's listened to this podcast has already passed. They're in a better spot. You know, and, if you want to, there's a lot of trainings out there at Ethical Digital we've got training about. You know the mental health piece around. You know parenting around. You know we have some stuff for teachers. You know doing more for hockey.
Speaker 1:You know that kind of thing and just understanding to your point yourself, understanding your experience with the online space and really understanding that you need to own that experience because you know, whatever that looks like, if you want to own your online image or if you want to decrease the amount of time you're online you know it's going to be different for every person and just but being aware of it, understanding and thinking about yourself, like going inside regularly and being like, okay, I just got off of a whoops two hours. You know, I didn't mean to that, just like went away. How do I feel right now? How does that make me feel? And being like, okay, I just got off of a whoops two hours you know, I didn't mean to that just like went away. How do I feel right now? How does that make me feel? And being real with yourself and making changes from there is going to be one of your best, best, best things that you can do for yourself.
Speaker 2:I love it. Yeah, and I think, as a family if I'll just add in there as far as from an idea is to have like a collaborative approach to it, like when when I don't know how it works in your house or whatever, but like if there's anything that I'm trying to enforce or lay down, there's massive resistance there. If there hasn't been buying, it's just like in a company, I think you know. But if we're all at the table together and it's like hey, how do we feel as a family? Like, is this working? Like, do we all feel comfortable with how much time we're spending on the phone, are we connected enough? And generally, there's some type of a, an agreement that will be made right. And then, when you're all in agreement with what it is that you want to do, then you are able to hold each other accountable.
Speaker 2:Like the space is now is a good one, it's a, it's a, it's a healthy one right, because we're actually looking for support within that scenario. So you know, I mean of course everyone listening here has kids that are different ages and maybe would have a different voice at the table, but I do think like having that voice and allowing them to have the voice and having a game plan together is much easier than mom or dad just trying to. You've been on your phone too long. What do you? Why don't you go? You know that kind of stuff. It's just becomes this right. But if the kids said, hey, yeah, I don't want to be on my phone this much, I think, collectively, we should play more games together at night. You know this side or the other, now it's a team and I think the team and the connection is is a much. Uh, what gives you a better chance of success? Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1:I love it. I think that's excellent, excellent advice.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, katrina, for coming on and sharing your story. It's not going anywhere anytime soon. You know, as uh, uh, as you've talked about, like, this is here to stay the internet and our involvement in it, and if we can be conscious about the choices we make and recognize what type of people we want to be within it, I think, hopefully, we've started that conversation. So, thanks so much for being here with us.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Jason.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to the episode with Katrina. I hope you have a better understanding of social media, its impacts on you and also phone use in general. I think there's a lot of good points and takeaways there. Hopefully some discussions to be had about usage and how to use and all the rest of that. Remember, in order to be your best, you need to control what you can control, and your time is one of the most valuable things that you have available to you, so do not squander it. Your attention is valuable and people pay for it, so remind yourself that you taking care of your time is how to put money in your own pockets and to take your development seriously. So best of luck with that. Really really appreciate you being with us, as always, and until next time, play hard and keep your head up.