Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
EP.146 - Embracing Authentic Leadership and Personal Growth in Youth Hockey with Topher Scott
Join us for a captivating conversation with Topher Scott, co-host of the Hockey Think Tank podcast, as we delve into the essence of leadership in youth hockey. Discover how actions speak louder than words and why authenticity and self-awareness are game-changers for young athletes. Topher shares his personal journey as an undersized player who defied the odds to lead at the USHL and NCAA levels, providing invaluable insights for players and parents facing similar challenges. His story is a testament to the power of resilience and embracing one's true self, both on and off the ice.
Through engaging anecdotes and thoughtful discussions, we tackle the nuances of physical development in hockey and the unique advantages late maturers can bring to the game. Learn why scouts and coaches should look beyond physical attributes to appreciate a player's understanding of the game and competitive spirit. Embrace the underdog mentality as a catalyst for personal growth, nurturing resilience and mental toughness in young athletes. Our conversation highlights the importance of fostering a supportive environment in youth sports to inspire a growth mindset and long-term success.
Explore the transformative impact of authenticity in leadership roles, as Topher reflects on his own experiences at Cornell. We discuss how embracing one's true nature can lead to a more cohesive and motivated team environment, emphasizing the value of self-reflection and understanding one's identity. With stories of perseverance and the celebration of team success, this episode offers a comprehensive look at how personal growth and authenticity drive excellence in hockey and beyond. Whether you're a player, parent, or coach, this episode is packed with insights to inspire the leaders of tomorrow.
I think, first and foremost, you lead with your actions first and not your words, you know. So you're putting yourself in a much better situation to have a leadership role on the team if you're one of the hardest working players out there. You know, a lot of times in youth hockey I feel like coaches just give the C or the A to the best player, which isn't necessarily reinforcing the best things, even if that player is, you know, really skilled and talented, but maybe they're only about themselves or you know, whatever, um, I, I feel like just the work ethic side of things is is really important. And then, like honestly does, does this person just care about the thing on the front of the Jersey more than the thing on the back? That's that for me, is everything. You to be playing for something bigger than yourself and and um, understanding that, um and and leading through actions of this is what's best for the team. Um, that goes a long way.
Speaker 2:That was tofer scott, former ncaa division one captain at cornell with the big red, and you are listening to the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. Welcome to Up my Hockey with Jason Padolan, where we deconstruct the NHL journey, discuss what it takes to make it and have a few laughs along the way. I'm your host, jason Padolan, a 31st overall draft pick who played 41 NHL games but thought he was destined for 1,000. Learn from my story and those of my guests. This is a hockey podcast about reaching your potential. Hello and welcome back, or welcome to the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. I am your host, jason Padolan, and today we are in for a treat because we have Topher Scott on the program.
Speaker 2:For those of you who are podcast enthusiasts across the hockey landscape, you may already be familiar with Topher because he is the co-host of one of the most popular podcasts on hockey in North America and that's the Hockey Think Tank podcast, where he's a co-host with Jeff Lovecchio. Some of you may remember my conversation with Jeff Lovecchio as a guest here on the pod a few months back, where we talked about personal training and a bunch of things which Jeff specializes in. And, yeah, jeff and I got along great and it turned out that they decided to have me on their podcast as a guest and that was when I was able to meet with Topher. Topher's a fantastic dude. We really got along great on the podcast. He said I think you're my new best friend because we seem to align on so many concepts and philosophies. And one of the things that really intrigued me about him, and one of the reasons why I wanted to get Topher on my pod, was his size, which sounds so simple, but he's five foot six and he was the captain of a USHL team and he was the captain of Cornell and he did go on to play pro. And just lately in my ecosystem here, I've been having a lot of conversations with parents and with players who are, let's call them, undersized or late developers, and so I said to Topher I'm like boy, I'm sure you are a wealth of knowledge and would really benefit my audience if we could come on and we could have a discussion about that and how maybe we can reframe the size issue and just have a discussion along that. So this conversation goes well beyond being an undersized hockey player, but it was one of the reasons why I wanted to have Topher on player Uh, but it was one of the reasons why I wanted to have a Topher on.
Speaker 2:Uh experienced a lot of success at a at a very high level, uh, despite uh a vertically uh challenged uh scenario at five foot six. So this is a great interview, uh, really tons of fun for me. Topher tells a great story. A lot of the things that he talks about are story-based. I'd give him a compliment on that towards the end of the uh the discussion, just because he's he's engaging and uh and he's able to tie in past experiences and stories that he's had with with relevant information to today's player. So, uh, yeah, I had, I had a ton of fun with him.
Speaker 2:He stands for a lot of things that I stand for. You mean, he's about the long game, he's about just enjoying the process. He's about keeping hockey simple, you know, keeping hockey local, keeping hockey community-based. So there's a lot of things that he's out there trying to do, and him, with the Hockey Think Tank podcast, is trying to help and trying to help associations provide culture, the right culture to their players, the right development model, focusing on the right things, which seems to have gone astray in some areas. So I love this conversation. He's one of those guys that I could have a conversation with every day. It seems like it was easy, it was fun and, like I said, very story-driven with Topher.
Speaker 2:So I will stop talking about Topher. Just let you know that he did play, as I said, hockey at very high level Chicago Steel, ushl, the best junior league in the US. He went on to Cornell with the Big Red Cornell University, ncaa, where I believe they won a championship there as well and wore the C in both places, went on to play some pro in the ECHL and the CHL. So definitely has his own hockey background in acumen and a good resume to back all the stuff that he's done since he retired as a player, which is got into coaching at Cornell and other places and now, like I said, he's helping players and associations develop athletes and have the right development model to support their well-being. So he appreciates the holistic side of development, as do I. So let's get Topher here and our discussion straight at you. So, without further ado, topher Scott with the Hockey Think Tank podcast. Thanks for joining. Okay, here we are, live from Chicago. We have Topher Scott on the show.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the program, topher happy to be here, jason, let's, let's, let her rip.
Speaker 2:Here we go thank, uh, thanks for being here. It was, uh. It was fun. For those of you, uh, who are obviously my guests and listeners, I was a, I was a guest on the hockey think tank where, where toph is co-host, uh, there and uh, anyways, it was an awesome conversation. I found out a little bit more about toph that I didn't know and and I was like you know what? I think, if you're willing, it would be amazing to come on from from my audience. I think we'd probably have a lot, lot to offer. So that's where the relationship started and you were kind enough to join. So, once again, I appreciate you taking taking my invite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pumped to be on and yeah, that was. That was an awesome conversation that we had on ours. It's always great to just riff with hockey guys and talk about hockey stories and then, you know, give some advice that that of things that we've been through, you know that can help people coming up and stuff, and so you have such a great story and and uh, it was really cool to get you on there, um to to let you tell it and um, I think we learned a lot from it. It was great, oh.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. Yeah, you had some good feedback from it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ton Ton of great feedback for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I did not mean to make this an advertisement about me, but for those of you who are listening, like obviously that we're not talking about me very much, if you are interested in my story, like the hockey think tank is an awesome podcast, first of all, if you're not familiar with it, so go check, go check them out and you can check out my interview on there. That was probably released about a month ago.
Speaker 1:I want to say sure.
Speaker 2:Anyways, yeah, was a lot of fun. Uh, and yes, like I, so I. I found out during, uh, that you were a hell of a player in your own right and uh, and had some uniqueness about you, uh, in the idea of your vertically challengedness, let's put it that way.
Speaker 1:Uh, so, topher, how tall are you for real, not on the hockey card uh, so on the hockey card I'm five foot six off the hockey card, five foot four, and actually there's a funny story that goes with that. So you know, when I was 17, my first draft year, um, you know how central scouting comes in and they do the heights and the weights and everything right. So you know they have the, the ruler that's taped on the wall, and you go up and you stand with your heels against the wall and it started at five six, like it didn't start at five four. So I remember as a 17 year old going up to the wall and like knowing I'm not even going to hit it, right, and so I put my butt, my heels, against my butt, against the wall, and the guy just kind of looks at me and he kind of smiles and laughs. He goes, hey, kid, we'll give you five six. And I was like all right, sweet. So in the program I've been five six ever since.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know the program is wild, Okay, so that's, that's all. That's a wild story. I love that. I remember you sharing that on the on the think tank. So five, four and to back your straps. So central scouting came to to our program there in Spokane, and what I was worried about at the time I was 6'2" but I thought that I was too skinny, or you know, I was like I got to be heavier. I got to be heavier, so we had our you know whatever our hockey underwear on, and so I grabbed a 10-pound plate and tried to shove it in my shorts with my chalk on. So it was like hidden. So I was 10 pounds heavier than than I was supposed to be. Uh, in that regard too, we're always trying to inflate what we think we need but plates or pucks, or oh yeah, I've heard it all um, how, uh, how, are you from a weight standpoint, like at 17 and even now, like were you were?
Speaker 2:was that your full size at 17 years old?
Speaker 1:yeah, I was kind of an early mature um you know like never hit the growth spurt, unfortunately like never grew up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, but yeah, around that time I was probably I don't know 150, 155, you know. As I got to college and started playing there I was, my max weight was probably 165, 170, right around then. So, um, yeah, it was, was always kind of a stocky kid, um, thank god, because at my height that that was probably necessary. But I also was pretty lucky to be a little bit of an early mature too, um, to be able to withstand, you know, some of the physicality of the game.
Speaker 1:I'm actually a pretty big believer that, like kids that don't physically mature um early, it's almost like an advantage, because what you see in hockey I don't know if you see it by you guys too, but like a lot of times these kids who mature early, they're reinforced from a positive standpoint to just skate in a straight line and score goals, you know, cause they're just like bigger and stronger and faster than everybody and they don't really learn how to play the game um.
Speaker 1:But the kids who don't mature physically early, like they got to learn, they got to learn the game a little bit more, you know. They got to figure out some tricks on how to um be successful throughout the game without having to impose their you know, their physical strength and things like that. And so I always felt like the the later matures almost had a little bit more hockey sense, because they've had to figure the game out and survive a little bit. Um, and and that's where, like in in youth coaching, we talk to the coaches all the time, like you know, don't even even if a kid skates in a straight line and scores a goal at mites, like let's, let's reinforce, like team play, because at point people are going to catch up to them and you can't use your physical skill as much. So a little bit of a tangent to that, but it's something we talk about all the time.
Speaker 2:I agree, I think it's a great talking point and something that I have chatted about as well. I've been on a little bit of a late birthday kind of uh focus because just of how it all works out. You know how, especially in the whl level of the draft that I've been looking at where, where it's not represented proportionately, you know, like the last quarter of the birth year and it, it just makes sense from the standpoint of these players aren't less talented, they're just less developed. You know, 10, 11, 12 months at the age of 13 is a long time. Right At the age of 14 is a long time. So you know what does that mean in the big picture? What does that mean to development? And is there a silver lining for any of these young guys, younger guys that maybe might not be physically at the level of some of the early matures?
Speaker 2:And you know, from my standpoint and my philosophy, I want to empower people as much as we can, right With the idea of, hey, there is an opportunity and there is a chance, and if we change our perspective of this, maybe there can be some empowerment in the process.
Speaker 2:You know, and to your point, I think one of those messages can be just that. You know, yes, you may not be as strong right now and you may not be as fast, and you may not be getting all the accolades of some of these big, strong, fast kids. But if you can look at it from a standpoint of hey, hey, I need to learn angles to get into, protect pucks differently. You know, I need to be able to move pucks past people and then get open, find open space. You know, I need to learn these aspects of the game if we can actually embrace that. I do believe what you're saying is is true. You know, if that growth spurt does come and if we are able to catch up physically, we should have a higher, higher hockey iq in the process yeah, a hundred percent, and it goes both ways too.
Speaker 1:like you talk about some of those things that are really important for the kids to learn for, for the youth, um, as far as their own player development. But then you also think about it from, um, you know, like a scouting perspective too, and an evaluative perspective, like let's not get so infatuated with the kid who just grew faster than everybody else, who's just, you know, physically dominant, because that's what it is, um, you know, let's, let's, let's, spend a little bit more time and effort looking at the nuances of the game, the amount of times that kids touch the puck, you know where they are on the ice, the amount of plays that they make, their compete, their will. You know, maybe, maybe they are a smaller player, um, and they go in, and maybe they don't win the battle, but they sure, as heck gave it, they're all in the battle. You know things like that, um, as well, and that goes all the way down to, you know, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 year olds. You know six, seven, eight, nine, 10 year olds, and, and again, um, that's not to throw shade on some of the older, more physically mature, mature kids, um, but like looking at the, the intangibles of things and making sure that we're not leaving kids behind to. You know, if we look at things through a different lens, you know they might end up being a better hockey player at the end of the day, even though physically they're not quite there.
Speaker 1:And I know in junior hockey that's a big thing. Now, from a scouting perspective, you know, a lot of questions that I get from junior hockey scouts is like you know, how tall is their dad, how tall is their mom? You know, like, because they're not physically mature yet, and so they're looking at the intangibles and things like that and then pairing that with where they think, size wise, the kid is going to be in, all that kind of stuff, um, so yeah, there's a lot that goes into it, but the one thing that we always encourage, like I said, the coaches is like let's, let's make sure we're rewarding the right things at the youngest of ages, as it relates to what actually is going to translate to the next level. Might the squirt, squirt the P, we, p, we to ban them. Or I should say Adam, not novice to Adam, um, you know, um. Let's reinforce great competitiveness. Let's reinforce great team play, the ability to pass the puck like we don't.
Speaker 1:As youth hockey coaches, we don't stress passing nearly enough, nearly enough. For me, that's the biggest thing outside of, maybe, skating that translates to the next level is the ability to get to spots to get the puck and the ability to find people you know when, when they're open to. That's what we would call hockey sense, which is really really important, right, um, and so, yeah, it's funny just kind of going through all the iterations of what development means and you know what things kind of translate as you get older and and, um, you know the way that we kind of evaluate players and what we're trying to develop in them, um, I think is changing for the good. Um, it's it's a little bit less. You know, are they big and can they shoot? Uh, you know it's a little bit more. Can they process, can they understand? Um, and that, like, like we're both talking about that could happen as a very physically immature kid the, the, the intangible that you're talking about now.
Speaker 2:I think it might be more revelant or prevalent or show up more in a player that, let's call them, is undersized or a late mature. And those intangibles for me would be the courage, the bravery, the competitiveness, because it is harder for them and I think that that's a real thing. You know Josh Doan, who I had on who's your father, shane Doan, who you know hall of famer, big 230 pounder. Josh was a late guy to the party when it came to growing and he said he was like legitimately scared on the ice right because of what could happen and the way he would get thrown around in a corner. So he, he had to manufacture kind of the mindset required for him to be effective. Uh, I I think it's more relevant for those players because it's going to show up more like how do we encourage or how do you see like that growth of the of the player from those intangibles? Uh, and and how can we, how can we can support them with that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, I, I agree, like I think about it a lot, like I think one of my um, probably two best assets when I was a player growing up was my hockey sense and my competitiveness. Like both of them, I had little man syndrome, you know, like, but give, put me the uh in the corner with the biggest guy, we'll see who comes out with the puck, yeah, and, and so I think about it like I don't know if I achieve what I achieve in this game or learn the life skills you know that are helping me to be successful in life after hockey. If I'm six foot two, cause it would have been easier for me, you know I wouldn't have been cut a couple of times when I shouldn't have been cut. Um, you know, I would have maybe, you know, got recognized or drafted in the NHL or whatever, had I not been my size, like I don't know. But I had to work harder, you know, because of that thing, and I had to, I had to get that, be more resilient and more mentally tough and stuff, and so I think, really, like a lot of it comes down to the life skills honestly.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, we we talked a little bit about the hockey sense and the competitiveness and things like that, but the life skills that you kind of get from being in a bit of an underdog, um, and and just having to earn it maybe a little bit more. And that's what I think. Like you know, we say all the time to kids, like the best players at 10 aren't always the best at 12. And the best players at 15 aren't always the best at 18. And a lot of that comes down to those intangible life skills of learning how to kind of get through the tough stuff. And when you've been told you're so good for so long, sometimes kids start to believe that and they forget that like it's hard work, it's not just talent but it's like hard work that gets you there.
Speaker 1:And, um, and with just the way that youth hockey is in in terms of how young kids are getting recruited and being told these kinds of things, like it gets it's easy to to kind of get complacent. And that's where the life skills that maybe some of these younger underdeveloped kids have to learn just to survive and to be on the same level as those kids, they start to pass those kids because they've got that inner drive and that mental toughness and that resilience from keeping having to earn it and earn it and earn it all the time. Um and and again, we're all a product of our own experiences, and that certainly was mine. But you know, being a college hockey coach and seeing a lot of kids from, you know, 15, 16 years old up until they retire, that I think that's a big deal. It's a really big deal.
Speaker 2:So that messaging I like it, I think I like it. But can we break that down? Because I know there's players right now listening, and that's what I said to you as far as the precursor to us talking is that there's going to be small players listening, whether they're fully mature small players, or whether they're younger, youth players that haven't gone through puberty yet and they're potentially struggling with the idea of what I just said. Maybe they're. They're feeling like Josh Stone, they're actually a little bit scared. They like Josh Doan, they're actually a little bit scared. They want to be good, but they don't know how to be good. You know, they don't know how to overcome some of this, some of these things that they're feeling inside. Can we frame this to them? Is that you are an underdog and it's okay to be an underdog, and that is where you're going to find the resiliency to move forward. Like, is that part of it, or is there even more to it than that?
Speaker 1:Honestly, I wouldn't even say it's okay to be an underdog. I think it's an advantage to be an underdog. I really do, because you really do have to learn those life skills quicker, you know, than the other people who've had maybe more success than you've had. You know throughout their their upbringing and throughout their their journey. And the story I always like to tell the kids and it kind of resonates with them when I was 16 years old, I got invited to what's called the USA hockey select festivals and basically USA hockey brings in the top 200 kids in the country for the showcase festival kind of thing, and from that they pick a team to go overseas to play in the five nations tournament. And, uh, when I was 16, I got invited to go and I always wanted to play for my country. I thought it'd be the coolest thing ever. And and, uh, you know, I go to the camp and I play really well. And and, um, I was a fourth leading scorer in the entire camp out of 200. And so I'm like man, I'm going to make this team. This is, this is incredible.
Speaker 1:Um, but as as it has it, uh, I did not make the team and I remember just it's such like one of those memories that's etched inside your head. Like you know, I found out in the locker room that I didn't make it because everybody who did kind of got an envelope and a contract. You know, hey, you made the team and I didn't. I didn't get one. But as I was leaving the locker room, the head coach of team USA comes in and he was actually looking for me and he's like hey, is Topher in here? And I kind of raised my hand, I'm like okay, and so he brings me out in the hallway and he starts telling me about hey, you played really well this week. You made a lot of plays, you competed, you deserve to make the team, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you know, we're team USA and this was in what? Late nineties, early two thousands, whatever. You know we're team USA, our identity, we're going to be big and tough and we want to intimidate out these European teams that we were playing. And so you played really well, you deserve to make the team, but because of your size, we're we're not going to take you. You're just, you're an alternate, and so just complete blow. It's just complete gut punch, right. And so I'm pissed off and and, and you know I go and I grabbed my bag and it was in Minnesota.
Speaker 1:We live in Chicago. My dad drove me up there. So we get in the car and I'm throwing myself a pity party in the car Like this isn't fair, I can't believe it. Blah, blah, blah. I'll never forget it. My dad thank God for my dad. Man, thank God for my dad.
Speaker 1:He kind of looks at me and he goes. He's like basically like, are you done, done? Complaining, I was like, well, what do you mean? This is like this, what do you mean? And he goes Tov, here's the facts. Okay, you're five, four, like the people you're competing against, for those spots are half a foot taller than you. You have to be that much better than everybody else just to be even. It's just a fact. It sucks, but it's a fact, all right. And if you want to be that much better than everybody else, you better work that much harder than everybody else to just to be even.
Speaker 1:And, uh, and, and so he goes look, we can. We can sit here and we can whine and we can complain and we can think about how life's not fair, or we can do something about it. You know what's what's more beneficial to to sit here and sulk about how life's not fair, or or let's get to work, like, let's make sure this never happens again. And and that's where I feel like, as adults, like our job is not to enable sulking, our job is not to enable, you know, and there's a time for a nice big hug when things don't go your way, there's no question for that. But, like, what are you going to do about it? Like that question, I think, legitimately, fundamentally changed my life, because that summer I worked so hard and all I can think about was that never happening again. And it was a. I have had a lot of success in the game and that moment is a big reason why. It's a big reason why.
Speaker 1:So, get your adversity in, get your rejection, and it's good for you. If you choose to see it that way. Um, a lot of people choose to see it that way. A lot of people don't see it that way. A lot of people it's easier to sulk, you know. It's easier to to make excuses and feel sorry for yourself. You don't really have to put any effort in to do that. But, like you know, if you want to be successful and you want to pass some some other people. You know it's good to get rejected. I think it's good. It's good to get cut in a certain it's one of the best things that ever happened to me. Um, I got caught a couple of times in my life and I think it was the best things that ever happened to me and I don't know if I've had the success if I don't.
Speaker 2:I love. Yeah, that's. That's what a great story. I'm glad you shared that. The the determining factor like that, that the separation from the event and and what we decide it means, is critical. Yeah, whether you're a hockey player, or whether you're going through life and and your and your wife leaves you, or you know, whatever thing happens, whatever the event is, it's raining outside. What do you decide that that means? And, to your point, you decided, with the help of your dad, that that meant that you now had more clarity on your situation and it resulted in you recognizing that you needed to work your ass off and you had to have an amazing attitude while you were doing it yeah, yeah, and life is all about choices.
Speaker 1:It's all about choices Like one thing I always try to tell kids like you have so much more control over your life and your journey and your career than you think you do, because, whatever happens, what's more important the things that happened to us or the way that we choose to see the things that happened to us and the harder choice is to is is to take a positive out of everything. How can this help me and how can I get to work? The easier choice to make is to pout and sulk and make excuses, but nothing great ever happened on the first try. I don't think. Typically, you look at millionaire, billionaire entrepreneurs. You look at so many of these people that make the highest levels of sport.
Speaker 1:One of the stats, jason, that I absolutely love and I say it all the time in my team building with kids is 87% of the players that played in the NHL last year in the 23-24 season had to play in the AHL. 87% of the players that played in the NHL last year played in the AHL at some point in their pro career. What does that mean? That means that almost 9 out of the players that played in the NHL last year played in the AHL at some point in their pro career. What does that mean? That means that almost 9 out of 10 players that played in the NHL. What happened to them? They got sent down, they got cut, they were told they weren't good enough. Go work on your game before you come back up. And to me that's an absolutely astounding stat, because when I used to think of an NHL hockey player, I would think of skill. Because when I used to think of an NHL hockey player, I would think of skill right, like these skill and talent and you know the highlights on TSN and YouTube and stuff. And now, after understanding this stat, when I think of an NHL hockey player, I think of grit, I think of resilience yeah, there's going to be a couple of the Crosbys and the McKinnons and the Ovechkins that never have to play a game in the AHL. They're just that good. Most players you know yourself included like it. It. It's a ride and it's full of ups and downs and twists and turns and adversity and resilience and and learning how to freaking manage all that stuff mentally, emotionally, physically, um and and uh.
Speaker 1:I think I'm also like I'm really into human development and the psychology of things, and one of the terms that a lot of psychologists are using nowadays is reframing. Reframing how can you reframe this situation in your head to turn it into something that can actually help you moving forward, whatever that situation is? And I think, the more that we can do that and the more that we can teach kids to do that, like, okay, what's the situation, what's the choice we're going to make here on how we're going to see it, how are we going to reframe this where it can help us? Like, ultimately, that might be our most important job as as coaches and as adults when we're working with our kids, and that's even hard to do as an adult human nature it's it's a lot easier to be negative than it is to be positive, and so, um, yeah, I think you know those little intangibles that we've been talking about. Um, how can we, how can we find a positive in every situation and use it? Use it to make us better?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and recognizing that there's a choice. I find that that's one of the biggest perspective changes with the players that I work with is allowing them the opportunity to see that, because I think the majority of us are on autopilot in some capacity, you know, with their day and with their responses. They're emotional, we feel things and we and we just go about it. The aspect that really intrigues me about personal development is just that recognizing that we have a choice in different areas, you know, and and trying to show that to to young athletes, I think can be very, very empowering, because when you do face a problem, if our default, now downloaded, operating system tells us where's the solution, that's a way different thing to think about than like being stuck in the problem and you know, on this thing that we want to avoid or that we're resistant to, or that we feel sorry for ourselves about, we automatically go to. How is this helping? How's this working for me? Why is this? Why is this presented to me in this moment, that that is going to help, something which is like exactly what you talked about with that getting cut. You mean you could, that could have wrecked you, you could have thought the whole thing was unfair. The system's's rigged. It's not for me, right. This is I picked the wrong sport, you decided to have another option there and you found a way out which empowered you to feel that you were in control. Like that's the message that I want to get and you hit on that earlier is you know, the idea that you have way more control than a lot of people recognize, and especially younger athletes out there is. Show them the path where they can feel empowered and uh, and when you are able to recognize yourself making new choices in those moments that's where I get on my coaching call. That's where people have the biggest smile on their face. They broke an old pattern of responding to something in a certain way and they recognized in the moment that they were able to pivot, to be courageous, to reset from that mistake. To recognize it didn't mean what they originally thought it was supposed to be courageous to reset from that mistake, to recognize it didn't mean what they originally thought it was supposed to mean and they showed up differently. Like that is a pretty cool thing to feel good about.
Speaker 2:Just going to take a short break from my podcast with Topher Scott to talk to you guys about the UMH 68, which is super exciting. For me, it's an expanding brand underneath Up my Hockey. The UMH 68 is an invitational only experience for youth hockey players in the western provinces of Canada. So, yes, I'm sorry if you're listening from the States, this doesn't include you at this time, but it may be coming to an area near you in the future. But as of right now, in 2025, we are hosting events in British Columbia, alberta, saskatchewan and Manitoba and we are targeting the minor Bantam age group as well as the major Peewee age group. So in Alberta, we are going to be talking to and inviting 2012 born players. In Saskatchewan, we're going to be inviting 2012 born players and in Manitoba, we are inviting 2011 born players. Bc will be doing both 2012s and 2011s and this experience is designed to attract the top 68 players in the province, where we bring everyone together for a developmental weekend, an educational weekend and a highly competitive weekend where you get to play against the other best on best in the province. Super exciting. We've done it two years in a row in British Columbia, to rave reviews from those who have participated Parents.
Speaker 2:Not often do you pay money for something that you thank people for afterwards. I know, I'm a hockey parent, I know that this happens time and time again, where you go to a spring tournament, or you go here or you go there and you invest money in it, go here or you go there and you invest money in it. And rarely do you have such an extraordinary experience that you think to send an email to the host or the organizer thanking them for the event. And I say this as gratefully and as humbly as possible, but there is an over 50% rate of emails coming through my inbox from parents who are taking the time to thank me for the experience that their player had over the weekend. It's super, super exciting for me to have such an impact on the parents and on the players with what we are providing with the UMH 68. It is beyond hockey. It is underneath the umbrella of Up my Hockey, which is the holistic development of the athlete to be the best hockey player that they can be, and that philosophy is entrenched in the weekend.
Speaker 2:We take care of these players, we treat them like pros. We offer workshops for the players and the parents, meaning across all boards. I do a mindset workshop, which has been very well received, talking about mindset and when it comes to athletics and how it can make a difference for them in their hockey careers. Last year we had on Vernon Vipers, co-coach, talking about the BCHL pathway. We had in a physical training component which we combined with some player testing about why they're testing, what they can do to get better, how they compare to their peer group, and we also had in a player agent, a player representative, talking about that pathway, what purposes they serve at these younger ages, when you should get one if you need one, what to look for.
Speaker 2:So the idea here is, yes, we are going to play hockey at the UMH 68. And yes, that is the focus and yes, we take care of that. 110%, with stop time, uh, 60 minute games, two ice cleans per game. Uh, we have trainers on set. We have coaches with NHL uh experience or coaches that are still involved, uh, in the game at high levels, so you can get the exposure and the education from those players, those people on the bench, sorry, and yeah, and it's a best on best experience. So the hockey is absolutely fantastic no early morning games, no late night games. We take care of the athletes in the way that they can sleep and eat, and then we also have the educational component. We also take care of the players when it comes to their dressing room experience. Their gear gets to stay in the dressing room for the entire weekend, so you're not bringing that gear back to the hotel and having to air it out. It stays where it is. They have stalls that are dedicated to them, we have a player banquet that's dedicated just to the players, where the coaches get to address the players and speak to them, where we have reverse uh a raffle draw where they're winning prizes and and we're educating them in the process.
Speaker 2:So you guys I mean, the list honestly goes on and on and it's been, uh, so well received and I'm so excited to expand. And if you are someone that lives in the western provinces, that you have a 2012 or a 2011 that you believe is in the top 68 in the province, by all means visit the UpMyHockey website, upmyhockeycom. There is what we call a watch list form. We do use our hockey network in all the provinces. We have people watching tournaments, games in league and out, and we compile lists of who we believe these top 68 players are.
Speaker 2:But, of course, there's a lot of hockey players and there's a lot of geographic area to cover. So, even if you feel well entrenched in the top 68 or well entrenched in the top 25, put your name in the hat. Just let us know that you are interested and you would like to come and experience what a UMH 68 is. If you are a coach or a parent of a player and you would like to refer your player or somebody on your team or elsewhere in your league, you can use the watch list form to do that as well. Recognize greatness in your community. Let's celebrate these players and let's give them an experience unlike any other in the spring. So really excited about the UMH 68.
Speaker 2:There is also sponsorship opportunities. If you are in one of those geographic areas and you're a listener, looking for provincial sponsors to get behind the UMH 68 to help keep costs low for these families that want to participate, that is a definite. Priority of mine is to provide a world-class experience and still keep the fees low so everyone can attend and take advantage of what's there to offer. So if you are a corporate sponsor and want get behind youth hockey, by all means you can reach out at wwwupmyhockeycom as well, or jason at upmyhockeycom to email me. Email me directly and uh yeah, fantastic stuff going on with umh 68, super excited, and uh till, uh, yeah, till 2025. June and may is when these things are going to be happening. So, anyways, let's get back to the podcast with tofer scott I'll even take it a step further.
Speaker 1:Like you know, the kids that they're, that you work with, are really lucky to have you to teach them that and and I said it before like thank God for my dad, you know, thank God for my dad and giving me some some blunt honesty. You know in that moment, because you know what we're seeing nowadays is, you know, the, the, the. I think people call them snowplow parents. Right, where you know they're, they're plowing the snow in front of the kids so they don't have to walk through the crap and they're kind of like trying so hard to make sure their kid doesn't have to have so much adversity. Because if my dad in that car ride home, if his reaction to me throwing myself a pity party was to be like, yeah, you know what it's not fair, it's BS, I can't believe he said that to you Like this is brutal. And then he's gonna call you know somebody at usa hockey and say this is bs. Imagine if he did that. Like the next year was one of the best. Like I had a great, like I worked really hard and I became a much better player. Because he's instead of like enabling me and and saying, yeah, you know what this isn't in your control and and like, that's why it's so important that, like, we let the kids like figure it out and go through the tough stuff, we can be there to support and guide and everything like that.
Speaker 1:But, like, how many youth coaches do you know? You know, or youth hockey directors that you know their worst and least favorite time is right after tryouts. Because what do they have to do? They have to field all these calls from all these parents who feel like their kid got you know the wrong end of the stick. Well, let's reframe that. Those parents, what they should be doing is hey, I guess you're not good enough this year. Like, let's get to work. Like, let's, let's prove them wrong and be the best player on your team this year and and let's, let's make the team next year. You know, or it's, you know, this team didn't take me, so we're gonna go to another organization.
Speaker 1:And then you see kids that play for six different organizations in eight years. And then you know when it gets to be time for junior hockey or college hockey or whatever you know, we're looking at the history and we're like, oh whoa, this kid played on six different organizations in eight years, like Like that's probably a big red flag. I don't know if I want to take a kid like that or from a family like that. So like, yeah, I think, and especially as kids, you know, we're we're immature and we haven't gone through some of the life stuff yet. And and it's important that, as adults coaches, parents, administrators, people like yourself who are working with these athletes too like we have to teach them this stuff and not, you know, when the things aren't going well, just fight their battle for them. Let them fight their battles and figure it out.
Speaker 2:Well and to, if we're going to give, if we're going to give parents any slack, I do think that the ones that are, like we said, enabling enabling you know the snowplow I don't think. I think it's because they don't see the other option too. You know, like they themselves are stuck in in these old habits, patterns, like they themselves probably view their, their, their world in that capacity right that someone's out to get me and it's not for me. So it's tough. I mean, I'm just saying it's tough to operate from a different lens If you haven't yourself seen that there's potentially different option there, that's, that's a more and more enabling and a more empowering one when it comes to like. I like the honesty that you talked about there, with your dad just saying, hey, this is the way it is right, like you need to be better.
Speaker 2:Very similar conversation with my middle son, who is a five foot five and a half inch goalie right now at u15, playing the highest level he can play. His goalie partner is six foot one. It's the funniest thing you've ever seen, right, like when they're, when they're standing beside each other on the ice, and we all know how favorably small goalies are looked at right now in this day and age, right, and so we've had the discussion. You know, and I'm like gunner, hey, first of all, hopefully you're doing this because you love it, not because you expect to be an nhl goalie, you know, but like not having it, having a conversation within the context of advancing through the sport, I'm like you are going to have to be much better, like really good, like you have to be a better skater. You're going to have to have a higher, uh, say, percentage. You're gonna have to do things that, uh, that other guys don't have to do because you're smaller. So you can take and he can take that whichever way he wants to take it. Right, you know, he can take that information and do what he wants with it. He can't control how much he's going to grow, but he can't control how much he's going to work in his skating or how much he's going to compete or, you know, I mean all these other things that he's going to do. So I like, personally, I like the rawness of what you're talking about there from your father, right, like that you put this, this formula, this thing in front of them in real black and white terms and then they can do something about it.
Speaker 2:The other thing that comes to mind, toph, and you'll probably like this is my son last year in his draft year airing all the family stuff. I think that's, that's fine. My kids know that I'm able to talk about them. I like talking about them better than my clients. I'll keep that a little more private.
Speaker 2:But he was really upset that he wasn't getting um these surveys from whl teams it was what halfway through his draft year, right, and he'd only had two and his other guys that had x, y and z and all his teammates that had all these, all this recognition, and he felt that he wasn't getting what he deserved, right, that he was working hard and he was getting his points and doing his thing. And uh, and I and I said to him once I said how do you want to like what? You know why you're not getting them? Well, no, I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2:I mean it's so frustrating and I'm like because you can't fricking skate. I'm like that's why you need to be a better skater. I've talked to you about this before and like he's a kid that works his ass off in anything, right, but he had avoided those components of his own development resistance there that he wasn't really doing the things that would require him to be a better skater, and that moment in time was when he switched gears because it meant enough to him he'd meet where he met his own pain point and then he started doing all the things that he could be doing slide board, you know, plyometrics this, that and the other, on his own time, deliberately, with intention, consistently, and his skating changed enough in the second half of the year that he was drafted in the fourth round, you know like and it was really like yeah, it was like a massive game and he still needs to work on it.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's still his thing, but like, like that black and white honesty, he reached his point and it was like, and then he did something with that information. So, uh, anyways, a couple stories there for hopefully that that, that, uh, that motivates some kids out there that know, and, and parents, you know that the truth is okay, right? Yeah, new Cause I'll give you the option.
Speaker 1:Can I, can I add something to that, because I think this is really important to like? I had a great relationship with my dad, um to the point where he could be upfront and honest with me. Um, you have a great relationship with your son to the point where you can be honest with them and he's going to appreciate, you know, the fact that you're you're being that honest with them. Um, the relationship has to come before the honesty. You know, if you're a hockey parent or you're a hockey coach, um, that wants to give critical feedback to people, the kid has to know that you care about them before you can do that.
Speaker 1:Uh, if you don't, and you're that harsh with somebody, I think you're going to lose them and even though what you're saying potentially could be true, you know if it's some kind of constructive criticism or negative feedback or whatever, like and you know this is a coach, like again, it's the cliche thing they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care and um, so I I I think it's awesome that you have a relationship with your son where you can be honest with him and and he'll listen and he'll get to work just like I had with my dad, but I've seen it with a lot of parents who are critical of their kids and their games and it just goes in one ear and out the other because the relationship from that.
Speaker 1:They're like dad, I just want you to be a dad. You know, let my coach give me the feedback type stuff, um, so I I think that's really important in this as well, like if you the, the care and and the relationship has to come before the, the constructive criticism. I think that's a really important part of it.
Speaker 2:No, I'm glad you added to that, for sure, the and I don't know how your dad was or how I mean, I just know how I am with like I'm not critical, like, unless they ask me for critique, you know, like I'm pretty stand back, so like, when I do say something like that, it's not, they're not hearing it 19 times a week and it just becomes noise. You know what I mean. It's like once in a while if they want, if they want to hear it. So that's the way I kind of approach it. And the other thing I'll add to you and to your point there, for everyone listening is sometimes you got to ask permission.
Speaker 2:As a parent or as a coach, do you want feedback about something that I think might give you some value? Yeah, instead of just giving it and delivering it, they might not be ready for it, you know. And so if they do say, yeah, I'd like to hear what you think about my game, now they've, they've invited you to give them that. I think that changes that dynamic of that communication pretty substantially for a lot of players and uh, and they're much more likely or what to receive it. You mean, if you respect what they're saying, some might say no, I don't want to Right. So I think that's a little point there too. If your mom or a dad or a coach is like ask, ask the kid, ask the kid if he wants to hear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was funny. I was talking with my dad about this literally last week. It's so funny that this came up because, um, we always had a rule in our car that, um, if we were going to talk about hockey, I had to be the one to bring it up and we were talking about it. And it was funny because I think I don't I can't remember, I think it was maybe 11 or 12 years old and my dad was telling me the story about how, at one point, I looked at him in the car and I was like, dad, can we stop talking about hockey right now? Can we talk about something else? And it was an aha moment for him, like I need to shut up you. You know, like this is not the kind of hockey parent that I want to be, and, um, and so that was. That was kind of the rule that him and my mom had in the cars, like, if, if we wanted to, or if I wanted to talk hockey, then let's do it. You know, my dad's played college hockey, like he's been involved in the game for a long time, and so I value his opinion. Um, but yeah, just really funny and and that's one thing.
Speaker 1:We do a lot with the hockey think tank. We do a lot of parent education stuff and we really hammer home how important the car ride home is and how it's important to have a really good car ride home positive support, love. You know, and you know just like you with our podcast. You know, sometimes we get the opportunity to get these really high level hockey people on guys have played in the nhl, women that have played in the olympics and stuff and we always ask them every time what was your car ride home like? And we have yet to encounter a high level hockey player that has said it was a negative car ride home.
Speaker 1:You know every single one and uh, it just. Man. I feel like the car ride home for a kid's development is as much, maybe even more important than anything a coach can do on the ice to give you the hockey skills. You know that relationship is so important and I honestly you probably do too, like I. I know guys that I've played with who struggle to allow their dads to be around their grandkids because of the way that their dads treated them growing up when it came to hockey and they don't want that for their kids and that's that's.
Speaker 1:That's tough, like that's. So I asked parents like is that, is that what you want, you know? Like what's, what's your why here? Like what, what do you want to get out of this situation with? With?
Speaker 1:your kid here because it's a longer game than just you know the however many years that they're playing the game, um, and that's an unfortunate byproduct of a lot of parents that are maybe a little bit too, too harsh, or whatever you want to call it their kids um critical, um, yeah, it's a big deal. The car ride home is a big deal.
Speaker 2:I agree. I agree, man. I'm glad you mentioned personal development earlier. Like I'm, I would consider myself a little bit of a geek about it.
Speaker 2:You know, uh, uh, I just like, philosophically, I believe that we're here to evolve the best that we can in whatever capacity. You know, that's kind of the way I've operated on a personal level, whether it be sports or, you know, my coaching or whatever does, does not mean that I'm perfect in any capacity, but it means that I'm trying, you know, and and I think that for me, the the emotional IQ aspect of what you're talking about is something that we can grow, and I and I view all this stuff as skills, and I think if you're lacking in the emotional IQ department, I think that's when a lot of this stuff goes wrong, like in the car ride. Yeah, we want the hockey thing to be good and we're passionate about that, but if we don't recognize the emotional spot that the kid is in or the player, and then we come at them with an energy or in a way that, like, isn't productive, you know we're not doing anyone any favors, right, and now there's just hostility involved in there. And so I think you know, doing some work as a parent or as a coach on that emotional iq aspect and and being able to, you know, feel energy, understand it, what the personality type is in the car. I think is really important and you know it's definitely something that I'm growing with.
Speaker 2:But even as you were saying that, I was thinking like the last car ride home I had with Hudson. He had a weekend that he wasn't super happy with. As a parent watching I wasn't super happy with it either. You know details of the game, things that could have been happening. But he came into the car and I could tell he was like not happy and I wasn't going to be a cheerleader for him either. Right, it was just like and it was just quiet, and it wasn't quiet in any type of negative, but he just didn't want to talk and there was nothing for me to offer him in that scenario. So the silence was okay. You know, it was just like we just went and then it was three, four hours later at the dinner table where he wanted to start talking about it, you know.
Speaker 2:So I think it is a lot about when the player, I think, is ready and how they are, and hopefully we can allow them the space that they need and just give them a free ride. Even If they don't want to talk about it, then it's not up to us to initiate that conversation. So, yeah, really great points there. If we're going to shift gears back to you a little bit, I'd like to know a little bit more just about how you got in with the steel and and that experience with the USHL and playing that high of a level again at five foot four. I part of my part of my coaching program includes a story from Nathan Gerby talking about his you know his evolution through the game and how we ended up being the shortest position player ever at five foot four to play in the nhl. So, like I love there's not many of you right so how, how that happened, how you made that team, what type of fight you had to put up to get there. Can you, can you walk us through some of that?
Speaker 1:yeah. So it was actually pretty crazy, like back when I was of that age, like we didn't really know junior hockey, you know, like it wasn't really a thing down in the states. Yet there was ushl, north american league, but like you know, we didn't really know what it was or whatever, and there was a team that moved from fargo um down to chicago. The team got sold and then got and then moved down to chicago and we had a team of 15 year olds that the year before we won the national championship down here in the states. So we had a lot of really good players and we all went to the tryout just to kind of, oh, hey, they invited us. It was like, yeah, see what it is.
Speaker 1:And I ended up like doing really well at the tryouts as a 15 year old um and and made the team from there just kind of on a whim, almost um and and it's the the really interesting part about it, kind of tying back to what we were talking about was the hardest year of hockey I've ever had in my life. Like I am somebody that absolutely loved the game still do, but like at that time, like that's all I thought about. I just I loved to play hockey and I was close to quitting. I was legit close to quitting. I couldn't do it Like it was just, I was depressed, like I. It was the first time in my life where hockey was like not easy for me. You know, like my life, where hockey was like not easy for me. You know, like um, and, and so, yeah, and again, thank god for my parents. I had great parents like what's it? What's a positive? That's the thing they always talk to me about. What's a positive we can take out of this? What's a positive that we can take out of this? What's a positive we can take out of this? You're gonna be better for it.
Speaker 1:Um, because I was like I had conversations with them of, like I, I don't want to play this anymore. Like can I just go play midget hockey with my buddies? Like I, it's not fun for me. And they're like Nope, you made a commitment, stick it out. And if you still feel the same way after next year, um, then we'll, we'll make a decision.
Speaker 1:You know, um, and so it was really hard and that's why, like I banged the drum like don't, and so many kids want to get to the next level as fast as possible. But like, no, you know, like, go when you're ready. You know, um, dominate your level before you move up to the next one. Um, over marinate is what a lot of scouts call it Like just just really marinate, and development's a marathon and it's not a sprint.
Speaker 1:So, like, my first year with the steel was really really hard, really really hard. Um, eventually it ended up working out and I learned some things and um figured it out. Um, but it took me four years. You know, I played four years of junior hockey before I went on to college. Um, and I needed all four of those years. My third year, I tore myl in the first game of the season, so it was kind of a lost year, but still, like I needed that. That was another setback that if I don't have that, I don't know if I have the success, because I learned a lot of stuff going through that um.
Speaker 2:So yeah, junior hockey is a different animal, as you know, um, and and so I I encourage kids all the time like there's no race to get there, go when you're ready, go when you're ready wasn't that interesting, though right, because in saying that, would you have undone that first year now because, like that first year, yeah, so it kind of like that established you gave you some identity, you know, help build that resilience piece, probably how you identify with yourself as being an undergod and being able to fight through things. Yet you're also saying that, maybe to others, that maybe you shouldn't go early.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I don't know, I don't think you should. I mean, granted, here it's very good to be challenged, right, and to to fail and that kind of thing, but I, I do feel like, especially at the junior hockey level level, it's it's not only the hockey side of things, but it's the lifestyle that you have to live and learning new things and and being in a locker room with kids that are four, three, four years older you than you for the first time and hearing those conversations, they're very different, you know, than the conversations you have at 15, 16 years old, right. So, um, yeah, I think you can still be challenged, but you know, ripen up before you, you get there yeah, yeah, boy, that's such an interesting one.
Speaker 2:I've had that conversation before with a few people and even like a guy like jerome mcginley that I had on the podcast. You know, at 16 he went to the blazers and very similar what you're saying, that I wanted to go home at different points in the year he wasn't playing, he was. You know, the way the ecosystem worked there in the culture was that 16-year-olds, you know, got three shifts in the first and two in the second and you know, and if the game was in reach then they wouldn't play in the third. Now, should Jerome McGinley have been somewhere else scoring a ton of goals in midget?
Speaker 2:I, jerome McGinley, been somewhere else scoring a ton of goals and midget, I mean, I don't know right, like I'm sure he probably would have worked out fine either way. But that experience and being part of that blazer culture set him up for a really, really good 17 year old year. Now maybe that culture is different in a different organization and it doesn't actually foster growth and development, right, and maybe Jerome McGinley, if he's wired a little differently from a personality standpoint, maybe he doesn't have that type of you know type of response to it. So I do, I mean, I love what you're saying there, because I've definitely recommended some players to not go when they've been asked and I do think that the mentality let alone the physicality, like the mentality of the player, is really really important when you're considering what you're going to and the support system of that player too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if I had different parents, I'm probably out of hockey at 16 or it's. I don't go on this trajectory that I went on, you know, um. So, yeah, the mental makeup of the player, the emotional makeup of the player, the eq, like you talked about, um, the support system, and that's why, you know, development is such a fun thing to talk about and such a because there's there's not a manual for it there. There kind of is, but every situation, every kid, every everybody's different right. So, like um, that's why having these conversations are great, because you can. You can look at things from two different perspectives, and there's not one right way, there's not one wrong way, but you can take where the situation that you're in and learn from other people's stories and have a little bit more of a perspective so you can make some judgments and some some moves on your own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the mental intangibles that we talked about earlier are really important, like if those kids have the tools of what we were discussing earlier and you now are in that very hard, difficult environment and you're viewing that hard, difficult environment as your opportunity to really shine and to showcase and to fight through and and do and do these things. Like that changes your experience in that environment too, right, and so I do think that's relevant to to the discussion. Well, how did that? How think that's relevant to to the discussion? Well, how did that? How did you end up with a seal in your chest after, you know, fourth year there? Yes, people love to coaches, love to give, you know, letters to guys that have been in their organization for a while, but it was after the year that you said you had a torn acl. You know it wasn't like you were lighting the lamp, it looks like when you were in the lineup, uh, what what, in your opinion, was was, uh, was how you were given that honor.
Speaker 1:Well, for that year it was actually my coach that gave it to me. And my second year with the Steel, we had an assistant coach His name was Will Nickel, and then he became the head coach. He left to do a prep school thing for a year and then he came back to be the head coach my fourth year. And, having known me, that second year that he coached with us, he he basically gave it to me before the season, um, which I've always been a believer that the players should vote the captains. Um, but I was obviously honored to to get that and um willis, he's the director of player development for, uh, the vegas golden knights now.
Speaker 1:He actually invited me up to a stanley cup party. Like that's the kind of guy he is. He still keeps in touch with his players, even in junior hockey. Obviously, I'm in the game and was in college hockey so we would see each other at rinks and stuff like that. But yeah, that's kind of how it happened. He's one of the best coaches, one of the best leaders I've ever had. Even thinking about it now, as we're having this conversation, like a real big honor that he he entrusted me in that, because he's a guy that is very into leadership, development, um, and you know, building obviously not just good players but good people, and and he's the best, he's the best. So yeah, that's how it happened yeah what?
Speaker 2:um, maybe we can talk about that for a little bit, because I have players, as you do. People like to be recognized, they want to be leaders. You know, and there's definitely skills of that are involved in that, and I think leadership skills do change as you go through the ranks. You know, like you being a, you being a captain of a junior team is going to be different than you being captain of a college team and it's going to be different than being a captain of your bantam team, sort of what is expected of you or what you think you do. Well, uh, is there a? What do you see? Maybe we'll start with that, with a youth, youth environment. If you're a coach, or even if you're a player out there, like, what attributes, what do you think allows a player to be a c or an a in a youth organization?
Speaker 1:it's great question. I think, first and foremost, you lead with your actions first and not your words, so you're putting yourself in a much better situation to have a leadership role on the team if you're one of the hardest working players out there. A lot of times in youth hockey I feel like coaches just give the C or the A to the best player, which isn't necessarily reinforcing the best things, even if that player is, you know, really skilled and talented, but maybe they're only about themselves or you know, whatever um, I. I feel like just the work ethic side of things is is really important. And then, like honestly does, does this person just care about the thing on the front of the jersey more than the thing on the back? That's that for me, is everything. You gotta be playing for something bigger than yourself and and um, understanding that, um and and leading through actions of this is what's best for the team. Um, that goes a long way. That goes a long way as you get older.
Speaker 1:I feel like one of the most important attributes of a leader is just authenticity being yourself. I think a lot of leaders, myself included. I'll raise my hand up there Once you get that C or once you get that A, you kind of feel like you got to be somebody different, when in reality you're getting that because you deserve it, because of who you are, and so, um, uh, you know, a captain I always say this like a coach is only as good as his leadership, you know, and the leadership's only as good as the secondary leadership, you know. So, like, everybody plays a part in it, everybody plays a role.
Speaker 1:Um, even if you're a strong leader but you don't have great um secondary leadership with you, like it's more about a leadership team than anything else, than just one, because everybody's different there's going to be times when, um, maybe you're a leader that doesn't like to say much in the room Um, you just kind of lead by example. But there's some times where somebody has got to step up and say something and be like hey, this is how it's got to be. There's there's going to be times where teams aren't playing, the team's not playing well, and you need a leader to kind of be a bit of a jokester and stand up and say, hey, you know, we're all like, crack a joke and ease the tension of of a room. Um, leaders come in all different shapes and sizes and, um, just being the best version of yourself, I think is a big, big piece of that. But you know, going back to it, you have to work, you have to be a really hard worker, number one and you have to care about your team and your teammates.
Speaker 2:Just going to take one more short break with Topher to share the ambassador program or the affiliate coach program available at Up my Hockey. There has already been so many awesome, qualified, passionate people that have reached out that want to be a part of Up my Hockey, want to help players all across North America to be their best and believe that mindset is a key component in high performance. So I'm super grateful for those of you who have already said hi, hey, I want to be involved. What's this all about? And I want to extend an invite elsewhere. Maybe you are hearing this for the first time. Maybe this is your call to action. If you live somewhere in North America actually doesn't have to be North America. Why am I restricting the borders there? Hockey is growing everywhere. If you're a listener in the United Kingdom, in Finland, in Sweden if you believe that mindset is a key component to development and to high performance and you'd like to be involved with Up my Hockey in some capacity, whether it's supporting the programs already available or whether it is being an assistant or associate coach at some point, then by all means reach out to jason at upmyhockeycom and let me know you are interested. The idea with this is to grow the Up my Hockey programs, to grow the availability of mindset training to athletes everywhere and give them the power that they deserve.
Speaker 2:Confidence is a thing that can be built. High performance and the approach to the long game with development is something that these players can learn and adapt, and it is so freaking amazing when they do. It's such a gratifying thing to be a coach. I'm thankful every day for the people that I get to touch and work with and make a difference for them. And if that speaks to you, if you are out there and if you are somebody that already works with athletes, if you are somebody that's involved in coaching in some capacity, want to expand your game as a coach, then by all means, if you are passionate about player development, you are in the right spot. So once again, jason, at upmyhockeycom or the upmyhockeycom website, where you can fill out a contact form and let me know that you'd like to either be an ambassador or an associate coach, and I can walk you through what those steps are and we can meet face to face on a Zoom. So, yes, thank you to those of you who are there. Thank you to those of you who are there, thank you to those of you who are making a difference already in your areas. Without you, coaches, and without you, people who want to inspire and motivate these young athletes, the game wouldn't be in the place it is right now. So awesome job to all of you out there who are doing what you do.
Speaker 2:This is coming out at Christmas time, so I am grateful for all you listeners out there that have given up my hockey, your attention, and have used the downloads and have subscribed. Wherever you listen. I really do appreciate the support. Hopefully, this episode and others are something that you are gaining education from knowledge, from reasons to have discussions with your players and that's really the idea is to give back to a game that's given me so much. So thank you so much. So thank you so much for being here. Merry Christmas everybody, happy holidays.
Speaker 2:And now let's get back to the conversation with Topher Scott. There's two things there that I want to touch on. One is like the vocal aspect of being a leader, and I think it gets misconstrued at the younger age age groups that that people feel that they need to be the guy saying something in the room. I, I personally think that that's the last thing anyone needs to worry about at Adam or Peewee or Bantam or whatever, right, that's generally the coach's job. Uh, because that's the part where it can.
Speaker 2:Like, the leadership can get cringy sometimes, like they feel you have to say something and it's like this rah-rah speech that you see in a movie, not necessarily required. Like I say, lead yourself through actions, right, like, be really committed to what you want to do, your goals, and when you're committed to that and that shows up in your actions, you are standing out because not everybody's doing that. So you're being a great leader by, by example, and then celebrate others, like, if you can do those two things, that you celebrate the success of other people in your locker room, whether they score, whether it's a, you know, a hit a back check, something in the weight room, and you're one of those guys that is shining a light on other people. They feel good about themselves. Like that is vocal enough, right, and I think that that also speaks to what you're talking about, about caring about the team.
Speaker 2:You know, it's not necessarily another thing that I hear, I don't know if you hear it, but, like, worried if somebody's feeling down to go over there and pat them on the back, like I'm not saying that's a negative thing, that's a great thing to do. But you also, you know, sometimes when you're down, you just want to be down right, like you just need a second to be by yourself, right, if you can celebrate them in a way that encourages them, that is. That is more in a positive aspect. Don't worry about being a counselor or don't worry about doing anything else. Like I think it simplifies it for kids sometimes, did you? How do you feel about what I just threw out there?
Speaker 1:oh, it's so true. Um, I have a great story on that too. So one of the first people we ever had on our podcast actually was a guy named georgeasdecky and I don't know if you know Guas, but he coached college hockey at the university of Denver for a long time, won national championships there, and one of the stories that he told us was when he was an assistant coach at Michigan state he was out recruiting and this was years ago out recruiting at Notre Dame out in Wilcox, saskatchewan. They had a great program out there and he was going to watch Rod Brindamore. I'm sure most people know who that is, but for those that don't, he's the head coach of the Carolina Hurricanes right now. He's been a captain in the NHL, won a Stanley Cup, probably going to win a Stanley Cup as a head coach. He's that good.
Speaker 1:But he goes out there to watch rod brindamore play and he's watching him play and obviously he's really talented and things like that. And uh, then he goes, rod brindamore first period. He scores a goal and he just kind of raises his stick like it was no big deal, they scored a goal, whatever and then he continues to watch the game. He's like yeah, he's a pretty good player, this and that, and then he's on the ice and one of his teammates scored a goal and the guy acted like he won the stanley cup, like that. His celebration for when his teammates scored as opposed to the celebration of when he scored he was like that told me a lot about him right there and I knew right then that we were going to commit to him.
Speaker 1:And what do do you know? He commits to Michigan state, goes there. There's the whole you know thing about Rod Brindamore getting the keys to the weight room and or them having to lock him out of the weight room and stuff like that when he was there. But it's those intangible things, right, that really make a leader. And it's no surprise that Rod Brindamore is the head coach of the NHL and was a captain of a Stanley cup winning team, because that stuff is important and so that that hopefully reiterates and drives your point home. You know the celebrating your teammates is it goes a long way as a leader, no question.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, what a great story. And it is so you, we can talk about that. This is the thing where I try to get my athletes to understand I, we can talk about actions. Right, so a kid could go to a game now and celebrate others, but it could be like it could be a little bit of a forced action, let's say, because he's trying to look good and he's trying to be a teammate, but he actually hasn't seen the reason why he should right.
Speaker 2:And when you can, when you can explain why you should like, that there is value in the element of success.
Speaker 2:Like there is clues in that success, one you can like find lessons in his success.
Speaker 2:The positivity you're going to be showing him is something that's going to make you feel, as a chemistry related scenario in your body, better about yourself. Their success does not diminish your potential for success at all. Yeah, right, like there's so many things when you're talking with players and I know you've seen it is that's one of the big ones is like we're in a competitive environment, even on a team, like whether it's with your peer group or not, that you want to be able to stand out because you want to advance. So somebody else doing well can feel like unsafe, almost right, like we, like this is. This is hampering me, but the reality of it, that it isn't like their success, can be your success and then some. And so to reframe that again, to use your words right, to allow them to see it through a different lens, so now they can authentically really believe that the celebration of somebody else is not only benefiting them and the team but it's also benefiting themselves from an individual performance standpoint, can be like the real breakthrough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the best lessons that I learned and this is coming from Will Nickel, my coach with the Chicago Steel, who may be captain it came from him and that was that individual success comes from team success. It's not the other way around, and the better you do as a team, the more individual success each one of you are going to have too. And I'll never forget our first day in the rink as a team with the steel that year. You know, we get up into the conference room, everybody's sitting around a big table and we're going to go through all of our values and systems and structure and all that kind of stuff. And first thing that that coach did is he came around the table and he put a pamphlet down in front of all of us, right, this little pamphlet of about four or five sheets of paper, and on the pamphlet it showed the amount of college commitments that each team in the USHL had the year before.
Speaker 1:And this was, you know, early two thousands, when you kind of went to junior hockey to get a commitment rather than kind of like getting it. And then junior hockey, um and so um, his his point. So he kind of asked us he was like, which teams have the most college commitments. And we were like, well, the teams that were at the top of the standings last year, and he's like that's right, because scouts want winners, you know, and scouts want team guys, and teams that win have more team guys. And so the better we do as a team, collectively, and the more you all buy into what we're doing, the more individual success you guys are going to have as as as players. And if you guys want to do things your own way or you don't buy in, we're not going to have success as a team.
Speaker 1:And just look at the data here which teams have the most individual success? It's the ones that have the most team success, and it was a really interesting way to kind of go about it and I'll never forget that because it is so true when you get to be a part of a team, especially when you get older, you have to rely on your teammates a lot, and that's why a lot of you know junior hockey franchises aren't very good. They bring in me people who just want to get to the next level. That's why a lot of NHL teams can't get over the hump is because they got too many me guys and not enough. We guys, um, and because there's money involved and it's a business, and you know, the teams that are the tightest and the teams that play to their structure the best are typically the teams that win, and so, um, yeah, I love what you said there, like the, the individual success comes after the team success you know, it's not the other way around.
Speaker 2:There's a, and it comes up time and time again, even at the pro level. You know the AHL champions. Look how many guys signed that are free agents.
Speaker 1:That'll get signed from those teams, right, like how much more money do you guys get after winning a stanley cup when they're free agents?
Speaker 2:you know they basically double their salary because people want people who know how to win it shows up again and again and again and to all the really good players out there in their team, the one, the one message I try and get them to understand is like being a really good player is different than being a great player, and the great players do make the people around them better as well. You know, and I think that that shows up at the NHL level too. You know who is? Who has ever played with Sidney Crosby that hasn't scored 40 goals right or had a career year or whatever right Like these guys. These guys make everyone good, make everyone good and and I think that's a cool challenge I got as a good player out there to be to have that challenge. You know what I mean. How how can I, how can I make so-and-so better? How can, how can I make this line work? How do I get somebody else involved? I think that's pretty cool, Can I? I want to.
Speaker 2:You mentioned about authenticity and for me, I love that topic because I believe that when a player is understanding who they are as a person and how that shows up and is reflected on the ice, that is when they're going to play their best, because a lot of times in a team environment. We get. We get it's not necessarily a a conscious, rational peer pressure scenario, but we feel we have to act a certain way. Right and and this and this way that we're supposed to act may not be conduciveive to how we're actually going to play our best. For example, right, being really serious in the locker room before a game starts might not be the way that that guy really is going to prepare to be his best. Maybe he needs to be a little bit looser, standing up right, dancing to the music, something like that. So something as simple as that might help a player.
Speaker 2:Now you're talking about being a captain and authentically being you, yet trying to be a captain at the same time. Right, Because you're thinking that maybe something has to change. Can you just walk like your own personal experience with that, Maybe, where you showed up a little differently, maybe how, as you went through that process, how you learned to understand yourself more and be the best captain you could be within your own skin?
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, I mean, there's so many different facets to that. I do think that, like when I became a captain at cornell, at the time we had kind of some like off-ice discipline issues. Like we had a couple guys that didn't buy in, a couple guys were probably a little too social, you know, and we had kind of a down year the year before after two championship years and it just wasn't right in the locker room Like it, just that the chemistry wasn't there and there wasn't. Everybody wasn't all in, let's just say. And so, um, I took it upon myself as a captain to kind of be a hard ass, and if guys weren't doing things in a certain way, it was, you know, getting into them in a tough way and things like that. And that is not who I am at all. Um, you know, I'm I'm a positive person. That's kind of my personality, um, high energy type stuff. And I was kind of playing this character, um, out of the goodness of my heart, like I wasn't trying to be an asshole, but like I felt like that's what I needed to do to get guys to kind of get on the straight and narrow again. Um, and then I and I lost. It's one of my biggest regrets, honestly, that I have in my hockey career is how I started as a captain.
Speaker 1:When I did that, um, and again luckily, again it goes back to your support group I had a couple guys be like dude, what are you doing? You know, like enough with the act man like, and again this this was a group where we voted for captains and the players on the team voted me as a captain and they voted me as a captain because I was a certain way and then, when I became a captain, I became somebody different. Instead of being the guy that you know earned, earned it by how I, how I lived my life Um, and so I changed. I had to change and so, rather than kind of like looking for things that guys were doing wrong, it was like, okay, like let's look for, look for things that guys are doing right, and if they did do something wrong, it was taking them out to lunch the next day and hey, let's have a conversation about it. Hey, is everything okay. And this is how we do things here, instead of, you know, getting into them and I don't want to say yelling at them, but, like you know, just the harshly doing thing, which is not authentic to me, right? And so, um, yeah, it was. It was a great learning experience, and I had a similar learning experience as a coach too. Um, you know, trying to.
Speaker 1:All the coaches that I had growing up were kind of like strong, authoritarian, disciplinarian type coaches. That's what I knew. And so when I became a coach, I kind of got into that and and again, same thing. Like I had a couple of players come up to me and be like you're kind of losing guys right now. Um, we know, this isn't you like, what's what's up? And so, same thing. I had to change. And same like, rather than looking for things that guys were doing wrong, it was looking for things doing right.
Speaker 1:And um, you gotta, you just gotta be yourself, you just gotta be yourself as a leader. Um, you're, you're, you're. When you're more you, people tend to gravitate like, and I know for me and I think we even talked about this when you came on our podcast like, the thing that I hate the most from guys that coach me were when I thought they were playing an angle, you know, and they were not necessarily being upfront and honest and truthful with what they were saying. They were trying to play an angle mind game, whatever you want to call it, and that's, that's what can come off when you're not yourself. Um is, you can come off that way and so, um, yeah, you gotta, you gotta be. That doesn't mean you can't change and be better and develop your skills as a coach and learn new ways of doing things. But like you gotta, you gotta act true to who you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I'm so glad I asked that question.
Speaker 1:Love that and I have. I have another thing too that I think is relevant to this. Sorry, I don't know if you're right after that, but like I think the same goes true as a player, you have to understand who you are as a player, um, and I'll never forget that conversation. I had, uh, my year after I left coaching at cornell I went up. They made the ecac finals up in lake placid, um, that next year, and so I went up there to go watch the game. And I'll never forget the night before I'm at the hotel and I go down to eat in the hotel bar and Scott Young who, if people don't know, he's in the US Hockey Hall of Fame played in the Olympics kind of just a really good American player, and at the time he was the director of player development for the Pittsburgh Penguins and we had a kid that was drafted at the Penguins on uh, on our team, so he was there to kind of watch him or whatever. And uh, he was just kind of sitting there eating, eating dinner alone, and and so I went up to him and I said hey, and we just kind of sat there and just talk, talky for about an hour eating dinner and stuff.
Speaker 1:And, uh, I remember one of the questions I asked him. I was like all right, so you're director of player development, you're with the AHL team a lot, you're with the NHL team a lot. Like what makes a guy stick? You know, like what's the difference between a guy that comes up to the NHL and stays, you know, versus a one that kind of keeps going up and down? They can't quite figure it out. And I'm expecting him to say you know commitment or hockey sense or competitiveness, something to that effect.
Speaker 1:And his answer blew me away. But it was so just profound and he was like you know what it is. It's, it's self-awareness. I was like huh, what do you mean by that? He's like, honestly, I think the players that stick, they know exactly who they are, they know what their strengths are, they play to their strengths, they know exactly what their role is. That's on this team, they buy into that and it's just an unbelievable self-awareness that they have.
Speaker 1:Most of the guys that go up and down, they're trying to be somebody that they're not. You know, they think they should be a skilled guy, but they're being asked to play a third line center role and they play as a skilled guy, but that's not what they need at the top level or, you know, they're not playing to their strengths. You know in in some capacity. And so when he said self-awareness, it kind of it kind of surprised me because I was thinking about all these other things. But man, does that make a lot of sense? Does that make a lot of sense? You know, and you've lived that life, and so I'll ask you, like, do you think that that is something that, from what you've seen in your experience and being in that level and seeing guys go up and down, and you, having done that yourself, like would you say that that's pretty accurate?
Speaker 2:that's wild. Yeah, I mean, as you're saying, that I was thinking, you know, because I was a guy that was up and down and then never stuck. It's funny, because it's actually been a recent topic in our house, that my middle son has actually got into my own career oh really, yeah like they could have really given a shit right for the most part.
Speaker 2:But like recently they've been talking about it, I guess amongst their team and stuff, and you know like wait you played in the world juniors, what, yeah, and what and what happened, and what like, what like, what happened, like why, why only 41 games? So, like I, I could, like I'm you're totally speaking to to me. So I was like self-awareness, which is one of the things that I think is an absolute cornerstone of what I'm trying to get kids to understand too right, their own personal operating manual who are you, how do you do it, how do you do it best? Like those are really great questions to answer. Uh, in my situation, probably, sure, like I think you, I think I probably needed to know more uh about who I was.
Speaker 2:The who I was part, I think, is a bigger question for me, not necessarily the player that I was. Uh, I think that in a, in a, in a hockey locker room, me being an introvert, naturally, like I love this conversation right now, but if you put 17 other people in this room, I I probably don't want to have it quite as much. You know, like I, I like I like deep one-on-one uh discussions. So you go in a hockey locker room, I'm automatically a little bit off from a natural setting, you know.
Speaker 2:And then, and then I felt like I had to be some type of personality, some type of actor in that environment. So whether that showed up, you know, outside of the game or in the locker room, I felt that that was never really comfortable, you know, at the NHL level. So I think me having more self-awareness in that environment socially would have given me a much better chance to maybe play some better hockey on the ice. So there's that angle. The other thing I would say that I'm all about accountability. For sure I there's, there's a personal level of accountability in everything.
Speaker 1:But I do wish that I had a clear message of what they wanted from me when I got called up too that was literally the next thing that I was going to say, because I know so many players who've said the same thing, particularly ahl nhl. I wish they would have just told me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and that's that's a really good lesson for coaches to have. Like, you have to have consistent feedback with your players and and I mean, I think, the best coaches if you ask a player, particularly when they get to the levels that you played at, who their favorite coaches were and why a lot of them was, I always knew where I stood. You know um, for the good or the bad, you know I always knew what was expected me and and what um where I stood. And so I think that what you just said is so important for coaches to hear, um, because you probably have a lot of guys that you know too. I have so many friends in this game that do say that too. Like I wish I would have known what the expectation was going in um, I would have, I would have played to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and yeah, yeah, and, and and, cause I mean, sometimes I was too coachable, to be honest, like I remember, like Mike, mike Murphy, at one point in my little stint with with Toronto, when I first got traded there, about five games in or six games in, he pulled me aside in the Maple Leaf gardens and he had this big discussion with me about playing better defense and that I needed to be more responsible defensively. Now, first of all, was that true? Like I was actually kind of shocked a little bit at the time, hearing that, you know, but then, at the same time, this is the NHL and if this is what they want for me, then I better do it, you know, and uh, but for me, being like, very literal, I was on top of every puck, I was always on the defensive side of whoever you know. And then, so for me, was I in scoring positions? Was I using my intuition on transition, you know, was I doing, using my natural abilities, with my speed, to get on the heels of defenders when I, when, when that opportunity was there, well, no, I wasn't right.
Speaker 2:So, and and and. Then I wasn't producing or didn't produce as much. So was that? Was he asking me to do something that he actually wanted me to do, or did I not? Did I over deliver on that to my own detriment? Potentially right like so. There's so much nuance to that too.
Speaker 2:Right of like what it is they want yeah um, you know, and yeah, I mean, if you put me in a third line role, I felt that I was big and strong enough to definitely go and crash bodies and do that, like I was willing to do that. If you put me up top and play me with Sadin and Clark, let me know what role you want me to play on that line, you know. Do you want me to just go and create turnovers or do you want me to be a guy that maybe he's going to get the puck in the slot and be able? I was kind of somebody that wanted a little bit more information, whereas some guys don't want that information too, right? So I think that it's.
Speaker 2:It's tough when you're 20, 21 years old or if you're in a junior environment where there's so much personalities involved in it, right, like, how do you learn? What do you need to be successful? That I think that's where these master coaches come in is, like they're really good at understanding that, right, that somebody comes in. He needs to know information. He allow him the space to ask questions, give him honest answers. This guy's going to do better. This guy needs to be left alone, right? I'm just going to let him go. He's going to do his thing. The more information I give him, the more he slows down because he now he starts thinking too much, right, like I do think that there is a role to play. So I mean to mean to backtrack. Yes, there's personal accountability on on the player, 100%. You have to feel empowered and you have to feel like it's your path, but what you're surrounded by is definitely impactful.
Speaker 1:Yeah For sure. Yeah, coaching is an art, not a science, right? Like you know, when you're dealing with people in any capacity, it there's no manual, like everybody's different and you got to figure that stuff out and you know the best, the best coaches, they have a gift with understanding the nuances of every player and and how that, you know, ties into the team aspect of what you're trying to do. Um, and a season going back to the authenticity part like a season would be really boring if you had 20, 25 of the same same person, you know it would be a really boring season. So, celebrating, you know, and I think it's changed from when we were younger, you know it was conformed to this, and now I think a lot of what coaching has become is hey, we want to create an environment where everybody can be themselves. You know, we want everybody to be different. We're going to celebrate that stuff and we're going to need your differences at different times, um, but within the confines of what we believe in as, uh, as a team yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I love that. You mean from a from a skill standpoint, right, like what do you bring to the team from an actual hockey player standpoint? And also, what do you bring to the team from your human standpoint? What do you bring to that locker room sc human standpoint? You know what do you bring to that locker room? Scott Nickel.
Speaker 2:I had him on director of player development, assistant GM with the, with the predators Awesome guy. I had to play with him. He was my captain in Detroit in the IHL one year and we battled against each other in the dub lots and he had one of the best lines ever that made me laugh. He team, you know, and we're not trying to find them either. You know, like you, you need those personality types as you're saying. You know you need, you need differences. It allows that family, uh, to grow. You know, I think you can learn from each other and it keeps things fresh.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean I think that's a great message from our podcast for players out there. I mean, just really find who you are, believe that what you are is enough, emphasize your strengths, you know, provide value to the team and, uh, and don't try to be something else, because it usually comes off as inauthentic and and, yes, there is room to grow to your point. I'm all about that. But you find your home, you find your roots and you, you kind of go from there. So well.
Speaker 1:Well, let me ask you this with the work that you do because that word enough, I feel like, is a really hard one for me and, I think, a lot of people who are high achievers it can always be better. You know we're always trying to find that edge. We can always be the one to outwork. You know it's why we are successful at the end of the day, because we're not satisfied. But that can lead to some problems too. Right, like there's a lot of those people, myself included. You know I'll put myself on the therapist couch right now. Um, it's like I, it's for me, it's never enough, like there's always something else that I could be doing.
Speaker 1:How do you kind of work with athletes that have that kind of mentality where, like this is a strength of yours? You know you always want to be better, you're always looking for accountability. You know you're going to outwork that person next year, no matter how hard they work. But also like there's got to be some some space in there to understand that you're enough. You know and and and you're, you're good just the way you are. How do you, how do you, how do you work with players from that capacity?
Speaker 2:Well, the enough part from a human standpoint if that's where you're going, I think, is really important and I think that you know someone like yourself, a high achiever hopefully they can look in the mirror and see that what they're doing, how they are operating process oriented, you know, committing to what they're willing to commit to, and how they're you know they're driving their own, their own lives, and how they're driving that ship is really something to be proud of. You know, and allowing them to see that Like that's something that I try and emphasize with every player that I work with is to recognize the good that they're doing, that they are offering. The first question I ask players all the time when I'm working, at the start of our call brain. The first question I ask players all the time when I'm working, at the start of our call, whether it's group or otherwise, is what are you proud of? Because when do we get asked that question and when do we allow ourselves those moments to celebrate our own?
Speaker 1:success Never.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, because we don't, and especially someone like you or someone like me. I'm not looking at that. I've never given myself pats on the back. I'm looking for the next thing, right, the thing that I got to do, the thing that I get better at. But it is good to allow yourself the place and and and the and you know the time to say, hey, I did well here, you know I did well here, I'm proud of this. So so that's part of it.
Speaker 2:Right Is recognizing the journey, recognizing the things that you are doing, that you're accomplishing, where, where you are providing value, like, those are really good questions, right, like, and to be able to answer those. So so, hopefully, that comes to a spot where, hey, I am, I am enough. Yes, I want to be more, but I am enough. Inherently, I'm doing things that are providing value and I'm being a benefit and I can feel good about that. Um, the other thing is with, like, real high achievers and honestly, I don't meet too many of them, like david goggins type of people, you know, like that are really going too much, you know, because I think that, like I do believe in his philosophy of like we're operating about 40, most of us and the ones that are really high. High achievers are probably more like 60 65, you know, like there's not many guys that are really pushing the envelope, I think, with how, how much you you can do and places you can do to get there.
Speaker 2:So in the few exchanges that I have had with that, I always try and position things in the levels of competition. I think that speaks to the people that I'm usually working with. We're usually really competitive individuals, naturally that see things as competition and I say lean into where you're uncomfortable. I know that you love using that as well. So if it's uncomfortable for you, really uncomfortable for you, to actually take a break for a day from training and go fishing or go golfing or do whatever, like that's your pain point, like that's where the lesson for you lives, because that's harder for you to do. So find your space, find that place that you need to remove yourself from, the, from the action, and that's probably where your greatest growth is going to be found. So like I try and position those types of decisions, you know that they're now going to maybe step away, take a break, take a breath, because they know it's hard.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's great. Yeah, it's uncomfortable to take a break every once in a while, you know, but that's where. That's where growth lies.
Speaker 2:I like that, yeah sometimes that's where it lies, right. So, anyways, we've uh I yeah, thanks, man. Like a minute hour and 20, uh, fantastic stuff. I know I know my, my, uh, my listeners are going to really find value and everything you had to offer there. I love how story driven you are. There too, I I really that's one thing. I personally know that I think stories are awesome. People can. People can learn more. Uh, you know, it's more engaging that the storytelling aspect. So I love that you have so many great memories like that that you're able to share a super compelling. So, yeah, man, thanks. Uh, I'm sure our paths will cross again, but anything you want to leave haven't been able to touch on or talk about yet uh, no, not really.
Speaker 1:I mean, just be the best version of you, you know I uh don't compare yourself to others. Compare yourself to who you were yesterday to get a little bit better, to treat people a little bit better.
Speaker 1:Um, I, love that you know like we live in a world where it's very easy to compare ourselves to other people, and what was that saying? I forget who it was like. Comparison is a thief of joy, or something like that. Some philosophers said that, but yeah, I, I appreciate the time this was. This was awesome. It certainly didn't certainly didn't feel like an hour and a half and those are always the best conversations, the one that fly by. Time flies when you're having fun, so and you?
Speaker 2:know what. I'm going to extend it even more, so already cut you off, but I wanted to give us an opportunity to talk a little bit. The think tank. So, like, what is? What is the hockey think tank? I know it's a podcast because I was on it, but like, what service are you providing and how can someone you know benefit from what you're doing right now? Who's? Yeah?
Speaker 1:no, thanks. Um, so we're we're, uh, an organization that work with a lot of youth hockey organizations all over North America and we do everything from helping to provide, you know, kind of like structural, operational type things, codes of conduct. You know just better ways to operate your organization too. We do a lot of coaching education. We actually do like a weekly coaches call for every team that works with us. They can hop on a call every Tuesday and just talk some hockey with everybody. Um, we do a lot of parent education.
Speaker 1:Um, I would say probably the best feedback we get from everyone that we work with every club is like the parent education that we do, um, uh, just helping them to enjoy the youth hockey journey with their kids and give them a little bit of a perspective on what the journey potentially could look like. We do a lot of like. We focus a lot with the players on life skills, leadership and life skills. You know we try to equip the coaches with the hockey stuff and then try to equip the kids with the life stuff, and so it's been fun.
Speaker 1:We've been doing it for about a year and a half now and we have 16 organizations that we work with at this point and, yeah, you learn a lot you know from coming in as a college coach and kind of understanding and asking a lot of questions and learning about the youth hockey landscape. A lot of it honestly, frankly, is scary. I don't really love where the game's going at the youth levels, um, in a lot of different capacities, um, but there's a lot of really good people in hockey and to be able to give back and share our knowledge and help some youth organizations um operate and help their, their coaches and players and parents get better, um, it's been a lot of fun. A lot of fun, to say the least awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, applause for me. That's great. Uh, we need more, we more of you. Uh, that's fantastic because I agree, I mean it is going. It's going a direction I don't really like. It's a game that you and I both love and are super passionate about, and I think, in our own way, we're trying to make that experience better for everybody, you know, and pave the path that more people can fall in love with it and have and have good experiences with it. So, thanks for doing that. That's hockey think tank, you guyscom. Uh, again, the podcast is really awesome. It's very, you know, development focused. I think if you like my podcast, you'll definitely like the hockey think tank and, um, and yeah, lots of services there too to uh that are offered. So, topher, thanks again. Man, you're a, you're a star, really appreciate the conversation and I love what you're doing out there.
Speaker 1:You too, Jason. Thanks a ton.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for being here and listening to the entire conversation with Topher. He's easy to listen to. I know, uh, I know I found him easy to have a discussion with and uh, lots of value in there. Uh, topher, you can check him out at the uh hockey think tank uh podcast. All they're doing a lot of great things over there him and Jeff Lovecchio. So, by all means, if you were drawn to his message and what he has to offer, and if you are in a capacity at an academy or an association and you are looking to make a difference with the framework of your development and the way you set culture and these types of things, then the Hockey Think Tank is someplace that you want to check out there online. Topher is very active in the hockey community out on the East Coast there, as well as Jeff, and doing a great job in supporting the development of athletes all over the region. So thank you so much for being here again. Please come back again next time.
Speaker 2:We're trying to get an episode out a week now. It is challenging, but I am doing my best, finding some great guests and delivering a lot of action-packed, information-based programming for all you out there. So awesome stuff. Enjoy your holidays. I hope you get some time to relax with your family, with your friends, and just kick back, maybe away from a hockey rink. Maybe it's an ODR type of holiday where we don't have to chase around practices and development ice and we can just relax and be grateful for those around us and enjoy this holiday season. So until next time, play hard and keep your head up.