Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
EP.142 - NHL Veteran Mathieu Schneider on Success, Development, and Team Dynamics
Hockey enthusiasts and aspiring athletes, prepare to be inspired by the incredible journey of NHL veteran Mathieu Schneider. With two decades on the ice and a career spanning over 1,289 games, Schneider offers a wealth of insights into the world of professional hockey. From winning the Stanley Cup with the Montreal Canadiens to dealing with the highs and lows of a dynamic career, Schneider's stories provide a behind-the-scenes look at what it truly takes to excel at the highest level. Expect to learn about goal-scoring strategies, player-coach dynamics, and the importance of emotional regulation in navigating professional sports.
Join the conversation as we explore the impact of college hockey and developmental pathways for young players, featuring reflections from former players who question their own career decisions. Discover the pioneering efforts of Pat LaFontaine and the NHL in reshaping development routes, raising the draft age, and collaborating with key stakeholders. These insights shed light on the challenges and opportunities faced by young hockey players as they embark on their journey, revealing the importance of infrastructure, culture, and choice in shaping a successful career.
Explore the incredible team cultures and player dynamics that Schneider experienced throughout his career, from playing with legends like Nick Lidstrom to the transformative power of a growth mindset. Learn how Schneider transitioned from defensive to offensive play and the influential coaching styles that shaped his career. This episode underscores the significance of teamwork, resilience, and adaptability in achieving success, offering a comprehensive reflection on the triumphs and tribulations of a professional sports career.
You get to the NHL, you got a set of skills. You know. Could you get better at goal scoring? Yeah, maybe a little bit. Could you get better? You could get better at certain things. But those guys when I think of Iserman, Shanahan, robitaille you just go down the list of the players there. They were such students of the game and they were talking about goal scoring and you know other goalies' weaknesses that I'd never heard ever before in my career and I'm thinking I played over 10 years already and I haven't seen this and I played on several teams. It was just amazing to me the way they thought about offense and creating it and goal scoring. I just hadn't seen it and it made me better. There's no question about it.
Speaker 2:That was Stanley Cup champion and NHL legend, matthew Schneider, and you are listening to episode 142 of the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. Welcome to Up my Hockey with Jason Padolan, where we deconstruct the NHL journey, discuss what it takes to make it and have a few laughs along the way. I'm your host, jason Padolan, a 31st overall draft pick who played 41 NHL games but thought he was destined for a thousand. Learn from my story and those of my guests. This is a hockey podcast about reaching your potential. Hey there, welcome back, or welcome to the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. I'm here, your host, jason Padolan, and you are listening to episode 142 of the Up my Hockey podcast, and today we have on special guest Matthew Schneider. But before we get to Matthew Schneider, we're going to have a word from our sponsors, elite Prospects, which is the gateway to hockey Online.
Speaker 2:Since 1999, eliteprospect prospectscom is the number one statistical hockey resource, serving over a million unique visitors weekly. It offers the most informative hockey player database on the web and has the most reliable transaction tracker available for youth hockey players. Ep is your very own online showcase to highlight your achievements and help secure future playing opportunities coaches, scouts and schools at every level of the game. Consider elite prospects their one-stop shop to future stars and their discovery. Hockey fan crazy about the nhl, the draft and your team's top prospects. There is no better source than ep Rinkside providing insight and analysis on players worldwide through written features, video breakdowns, interviews and more. Head to EliteProspectscom and experience your gateway to hockey. Thank you to Elite Prospects for partnering with UMH 68 and the At my Hockey podcast. It's great to be partnering with them More on the UMH 68 as we move forward updating the my website as we speak. If you are a youth hockey player in the major peewee or minor bantam age range and you live in british columbia, alberta, saskatchewan or manitoba, we will be coming there in the spring of 2025. So get your name on the watch list on my website and we will be looking for the best players in that province, and Elite Prospects has been a part of that. So thank you very much, elite Prospects.
Speaker 2:But we want to talk about Matthew Schneider, because Matthew Schneider is the guest on the show today. This guy, matthew Schneider, just to give you a little bit of a hint, if you're a younger player here that doesn't remember Matthew Schneider wasn't able to watch him play. His last season in the NHL was 2010. But prior to that he played 1,289 NHL regular season hockey games and an additional 114 playoff games 1,289, just to put that in perspective. That is him starting in the NHL in 89-90 and playing till 2010. That's 20 seasons of NHL action with a few lockouts in the middle. That puts him 80th all time on the games played list Top 100 to ever play in the NHL. What a fantastic feat that is, and Matthew Schneider was an awesome defenseman.
Speaker 2:He played for the US national team. He won a Stanley Cup with Montreal back in 92-93. That's where he started his career, after being a third round draft pick to the Canadians, 44th overall in the 87 draft. He hails from New York, so we have an American on. Like I said, played for the American national team, was an all-star in the NHL. Twice he was top three in points for defensemen, I believe multiple times led the league in goals as a defenseman. He was all over the place, though, and he says he had a problem with not fighting with his coaches. So, uh, that was interesting. It came up a few times during the conversation, but I mean he was just to give you an idea.
Speaker 2:Montreal Canadiens to start off, then to the Islanders, then to the Leafs, then to the Rangers, then to the Kings, then to the Wings, then to the Ducks, then to the Thrashers, then back to the Canadians and then to the Canucks, where he dipped his toe back in the AHL for eight games because of a fight with Vigneault and then finished his career with the Phoenix Coyotes so all over the place but was a producer everywhere. He went In the 1,289 games. He had 743 points as a defenseman over half a point a game over a 20-year career. That's insane to be that productive over 20 years as a D-man and then again 54 points in 114 games in the playoffs almost a half point there as well. So he was a big-time producer.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, if you're not familiar with Matthew Schneider, it's awesome that we're able to have him on here. I will not delay this introduction anymore. We got about an hour here with Schneider. He joined us from Florida, by the way, we played together in LA for the hot minute that I was there. So, connected on LinkedIn and without further ado, I bring you a player of 1,289 NHL games and a Stanley Cup champion, mr Matthew Schneider. All right, here we are, episode 142. Old teammate of mine for a hot minute in LA. Matthew Schneider, thanks so much for being on the program with me.
Speaker 1:My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Jay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love the world, the social media world. Like, as we said before, linkedin kind of flashed your profile in front of me the other day there and said hi. And here we are seven days later reconnecting for the first time in a couple of decades. So awesome to see your face again. And yeah, I want to dive in man to the 1300 games essentially that you played, and I don't really know where to start with games essentially that you played, and and uh, and I don't really know where to start with that essentially. But uh, maybe you can tell us a little bit about playing hockey in new york growing up, um, what that was, even like hockey in a big city like that, and your introduction to it yeah, well, there wasn't an awful lot when I was growing up, so you know we're going back.
Speaker 1:Uh well, it wasn't an awful lot when I was growing up, so you know we're going back. Well, we're going back 40 years, 45 years.
Speaker 2:Isn't that crazy, even to say that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I know, actually 50 years. I was five when I really started playing, but my dad married my mom, who was French-Canadian. She came from a big French Canadian family in Rhode Island and she was 11th of 12 kids. My dad thought my cousins would all be playing hockey. My dad was a hockey fan growing up. They had the Providence Bruins, which were Boston Bruins farm team, and went back in the original six.
Speaker 1:So you know there wasn't a ton of hockey. Hockey was real regional. You had New England, michigan, mass or Michigan and Minnesota were really the hockey regions. Outside of that in the United States there wasn't much hockey back then. But my dad started programs when I was, when I was growing up, and that's really how I, how I started playing. Uh, he got me on the ice. I was hockey, baseball, a little bit of tennis, that was it, and so, uh, I I guess when I was probably 11 or 12 years old, I started to really focus more on hockey and that was my passion growing up right, being from a kind of I mean, small market in the sense of, like, not a lot of people playing.
Speaker 2:You know lots of people around you but not a lot of people playing the game and you obviously being good or I assume you were good were you good at like 11, 12 was? Was it already showing that you were kind of better than everybody?
Speaker 1:uh, I, I don't think so. You know, I guess it depends who you ask. That really knew me back then. But yeah, I grew up we had some family friends that my dad had known that played in the NHL, and you know that was kind of my aspiration, looking up to a couple of my heroes. Uh called the Bennett family in Rhode Island. That was really, uh, you know, a big part of uh still very close to the family today, who, who I was, as particularly as as it related to hockey.
Speaker 1:And you know there were five brothers. Four of them played in the NHL. They all played college or major junior hockey and I looked up to them, I was aspiring to be them when I was a kid but in all honesty I never thought in a million years I'd be playing in the NHL and that really wasn't my goal. When I was a young teenager and growing up I was hoping to play college hockey maybe, and even back then now I'm before your time too, pots but there weren't a lot of college hockey players coming to play in the NHL. And you think back to like 1980, you know the Miracle on Ice, jim Craig and all those guys. You know that's kind of when guys started breaking into the NHL a little bit was just after that. So it was a long, long journey, I think. But it wasn't like. I think maybe growing up in Canada might have been a little bit different because the NHL was just full of Canadian players. So it was a little bit different growing up, but it's certainly not like it is today.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I mean because it gets quite serious, I guess, for lack of a better word earlier, you know, with the aspirations being real and for some more real than others and chasing that NHL dream in some ways unhealthily right. So it sounds like your introduction and your participation in it was pretty holistic. You were an athlete. Growing up you were playing hockey. You found that you were good at it. At some point you had to make a decision that that's what you wanted to play, but it was more with the goals and aspirations of maybe being a D1 college player but it was more with the goals and aspirations of maybe being a D1 college player.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and I mean I guess, ironically, I ended up leaving high school a year early and going to play major junior Right.
Speaker 2:So walk us through that. How did that transpire?
Speaker 1:It's a long story, I'll try to shorten it, but I mean in a nutshell. I finished my junior year of high school. I was playing at mount saint charles, which was a big hockey school, and in rhode island and, uh, new england, high school hockey was was very high level back then, or a lot of guys, uh, you know, around around that time and before uh that came out of you know, rhode Island, prep school, high school hockey, went on to play college and then NHL, but you couldn't compare high school hockey to major junior hockey. It was certainly a big jump and, as I said, my goals, goals, my dreams, were to play college hockey, pretty much up until then.
Speaker 1:And I went to the US junior camp in the summer, which happened to be in Lake Placid, and I was there, for I was there for three or four days, I think, ended up from there. As a family friend asked if I wanted to go to skate in the Cornwall Royals camp for two days. Back then they had the 48 hour rule and if you, if you stayed longer than 48 hours as actually if you went to camp for more than 48 hours you lost your college eligibility. Whether you're Canadian or American, it didn't matter. And so I went up and I skated in four scrimmages and they offered me a contract that would have subsidized part of my college if I didn't sign an NHL contract. And we went home for a week and I talked about it with my dad and my brother for the better part of that week and within a week I just I said up, I'm gonna go. That was really it. It was. It was. Yeah, I think you know it's. It's easy to look back and go.
Speaker 1:Everything worked out in 20-20 hindsight but I've said this probably throughout my career I missed out on that college experience. I wish I went to college, if not for anything more than all the guys that I played with that went to college. They had their alma mater, their built-in group of friends, their network. All the guys that I play with that went to college. They had kind of their alma mater, their built in group of friends or network, so to speak. You know whether it's people helping out financially or you know agents across the board. They just had a tight knit group of friends that I feel like I kind of missed out on. I still keep in touch with a couple of guys from junior, but you know not nearly the extent to what the college experience was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, interesting, because I've kind of wondered that myself too. I mean, you have your path and you take the path out. Here in the West it was, it was an option for sure, like I played with Paul Correa as a 15 year old when he was moving on to Maine, you know, bc Junior. So there were some guys moving like higher profile players, but from out here there wasn't that many right going. The route was CHL and for us the Western league, and, and I made that decision, and and then in hindsight, for me obviously we had vastly different careers. I was wondering, like, geez, I wonder what would have happened Right, like if I would have went that other way. You know how would that have worked out, who knows? Right, because it definitely became much more mainstream for guys to be coming out of NCAA and coming and stepping into the NHL from there, even guys that were undrafted and coming out as free agents, right.
Speaker 2:That happened a lot more too, but yeah so, but I have that great experience of having the four years in Spokane and for me, like being all over the place in my pro career, that, for me, is my fraternity right, like the guys from there are the guys that I talk to really the most, you know that have the closest connections with, so I can only see where you're coming from with that, especially being from the States. I can imagine that that would be something. Well, how do you feel about the whole? It sounds like it's happening that just a matter of when, like the chl is is going to be able to come and play in ncaa and receive scholarships to play. How do you feel that it's gonna?
Speaker 1:uh, due to the hockey landscape well, I, you know, I think that there's so many unknowns of what's what's gonna happen, um, you know, but in the end I I think it's it's. It's great for players in the sense that there there's going to be more options. And as a player, obviously, you know, I I wish I didn't have to make that decision when I was 17 years old, that I went there and I lost my college eligibility. Now would I have gone to college? I don't know, maybe I would have, maybe I wouldn't have, but at the same time, to have have that option, have that ability, it's just, it never made sense and, as as someone that that gave up that option, opportunity, I always thought that that that's what. That was wrong. You know, it's wrong to force, force kids that young. So I think from that sense it's really good.
Speaker 1:You know, the I guess the most interesting thing from my perspective Patty LaFontaine is working for the league. He's still working for the league. He works for the Emergency Assistance Fund, mainly now. But Bill Daly had brought him in and it was about a two-year project in, and it was about a two-year project and patty brought in all the different um stakeholders I would say in hockey. So he brought. You know, ushl, the chl, all three of the commissioners from uh, the ohl whl, quebec league had the ncaa, usaockey Hockey Canada. Even at certain points people from the IIHF came in to a couple of the meetings. He had guys like Cam Neely and Luke Robitaille and it was really to try to. He had a couple goals One he wanted to raise draft age, which I'm in complete agreement with.
Speaker 1:I think you know an 18-year-old draft, it's just there's so many challenges for an 18-year-old kid. I played a couple games as an 18-year-old. It's just forget the on-ice stuff. You know the physical nature of the game. It's a little different today but you know you're a boy playing amongst men and that's one thing, but the mental aspect I think is extremely challenging. You think about going from a 17-year-old to an 18-year-old living on your own playing in the NHL. It's just another. Buying another year or two wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. So I didn't mean to get sidetracked there.
Speaker 1:But Patty wanted to raise draft age. He wanted to open up the NCAA to major junior players, basically create a pathway that players could see more clearly than you see today. You look at other sports. There are clear pathways from youth sports up through high school, up through college to professional levels. Soccer may be the other outlier, but hockey is challenging that way.
Speaker 1:So patty was trying to bring all the stakeholders together and get some agreements on these different things and we started to get pretty close to it, to achieving some of the goals that patty wanted to. And I actually started to get scared when we were getting close because I'm you're thinking what are the unknowns? What's going to happen when we open that up? Are, and when you look, is ballpark, you got 60 major junior teams across Canada. You got 60 some odd uh d1 programs in the United States. So you, you have 120 teams where kids of that age can kind of land and then move on to the pro level.
Speaker 1:Do you do now just create a pathway where they're going to go major? Those same you know however many kids there are are going to go major junior and then they're going to go to college. Are they going to? Are they going to take up all the air in the room? Basically? And instead of creating more opportunities for players, does it potentially just tighten the funnel at the top, which is what Patty used to talk about, how everybody kind of gets bottlenecked and kids start quitting the game at 15, 16, 17 years old because there's just no hope of them playing at the game at, you know, 15, 16, 17 years old, because there's just no hope of them playing at the higher level, which is which is what we were seeing.
Speaker 1:So, um, but in the end, I think, I, I think one. We do need more programs. You need, you know, and and before we, before we hopped out and we're talking a little bit about potential junior hockey expansion in the United States I, I, I think you're gonna, I think you're going to see expansion of junior hockey. I think you're going to see expansion of NCAA programs over the next several years. So, I, I, I really think it's going to be good for the game overall. But you, what? You see, what's happening with the NIL name, image likeness deals and what's the portal for college football and college basketball especially? It's just craziness. It's the Wild West and it's going to take time for it to get sorted out In the end, for hockey, for this specifically, I think it's going to take. It's going to take time for it to get sorted out. Um, in the end, for hockey, for this specifically, I think it's going to be good yeah, like.
Speaker 2:So I love this conversation. Like what, what are the good? Like, what do you think is the best thing about it?
Speaker 1:I mean, you're, there's just extremely high levels of hockey and, and I think right now, a lot of kids that are very talented, very skilled, have been getting pushed out of the game because there just aren't enough spots for them to land. I think that it's going to keep more kids in the game longer, giving them, you know, a better opportunity to maybe realize their dream of playing professional hockey one day, whether it's in the nhl, the american league or overseas, wherever it might be. I think it just contributes to the growth of the game, does it?
Speaker 2:hurt canadian youth sports, do you think?
Speaker 1:I don't think it will. Uh, I, I think again. You know there's some interesting things happening in Canada, though, or there were anyway. I don't have access to the latest stats, but I know, just even a few years ago, you're looking at hockey having real competition over the last decade in Canada, for you know kids participating in sports, whether it's baseball or basketball or soccer you know we talked about all the new Canadians coming in from different countries, and hockey wasn't necessarily what they were going to be gravitating to.
Speaker 1:You also had, you know, Canadian players being very successful in the nba and major league baseball and that becoming, you know, uh, an aspiration for other young canadian kids, so you started to see more competition for kids at young ages. That didn't always exist in canada. It was always assumed that, oh, oh, you're Canadian. The first thing you're going to do is you're going to get a hockey stick in your hand, you're going to be playing street hockey, and you know that was so. So I do think that. I think that you know the for the ability for kids to continue to play at higher levels and have more opportunities, more places for them to land.
Speaker 1:I think that's a good thing for the Canadian kids. The last thing that I'll say is a lot of times, in hockey in particular, I think you know maybe maybe I'm not, maybe I just don't understand the other paths in sports as well, but feel like kids are forced to leave home, generally at younger ages in hockey than they are in other sports, and, and I don't think that's a great thing. I left home as a 17 year old, I think you know. The longer you can stay at home and and under the guidance of your parents and things like that, I think that's a good thing. And and, and I think you know kids crossing the border, whether they're going to US kids going to play junior hockey or Canadian kids coming down to the U Ss to play in the ushl to save their college eligibility I think I think you're going to keep more uh, kids at home longer and I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 2:yeah, personally, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think it might get older, like I'm speculating, potentially, like the league might might get, meaning the CHL, the BCHL here, when they left Hockey Canada. It's definitely gotten older, like it's been less developmental, let's say, and more of a 19-year-old league. So I'm wondering what's going to happen with that landscape.
Speaker 2:You talk about the NHL draft. You know the WHL draft is a 14-year-old draft, which is crazy, you know. Is that going to change? Uh, does it make? Does it make the whl stronger, the chl stronger in general? Right, because now you know most of the best players are there anyways. But is now all the best players going to go there because they still have the option of of going ncaa? Right, like it's. It's definitely an interesting landscape, uh, right now, and you know who knows where it's going to go. But to your, your point, I think the more options the better. And, and for me, we were both in the same boat. You know I had to. I decided, 15 years old, 15 years old, whether I was going to play major junior or whether I was going to take university off the off the table. I mean, that's an unfair decision to have to make at that age.
Speaker 2:So, you know, if that gets changed, I think just from the basis, you know the baseline of the philosophy of it, I think they're getting it right and then whatever happens from there, I guess happens. You mentioned the mental challenges of the draft. You know you were somebody that went to Cornwall, was drafted out of Cornwall. You know, in the NHL, as an NHL third rounder, I believe dealing with that whole experience, I believe dealing with that whole experience, you know that whole crossing a border, leaving home playing Canadian junior hockey, being exposed to the NHL draft getting drafted, how do?
Speaker 1:you feel that you handled the mental challenges of that. Going back to that time, yeah, you know, I think when I look back I feel like I was extremely fortunate to be drafted by Montreal. The organization back then, you know, top to bottom, was just amazing. And you know, I think, from the coaching staff to the scouts and I was an hour from Montreal, you know, and I was playing in Cornwall, I was very close and Claude Ruel was actually a former coach of the Canadiens, famous scout. For years and years he used to come down to see me probably a couple times a month.
Speaker 1:And you know, my first year I had stayed up. I played four games and then I got sent back to junior. I was expecting to potentially stay up as a 19-year-old and that didn't happen. I got sent back right away. I didn't play any games and you go through really big emotional swings, ups and downs through your career. There was times where I was getting in my car and I was going to drive home to Rhode Island. I wanted to quit.
Speaker 1:You know, and it's just, you're just very you know, it's their personal challenges that everybody you know faces differently and at different times in their career.
Speaker 1:But you I, I look back, all of that kind of contributed to you know who I was, uh, particularly the second half of my career, I think. Uh, because I, I just had, I was, I was on a roller coaster. I think I probably say I was on a roller coaster throughout my entire career, but it was um, you know, every, every obstacle you face uh makes you a stronger person. The experience makes you better, smarter, and and it's uh, it's like anything else you know, but there are, you know there's so few people that can relate to it or that go through it. So, being in an organization like Montreal, really, you know, they, I, I, what I wanted to play in the league as an 18 year old, 19 year old, absolutely wasn't ready, probably not. And and they brought me in and taught me how to be a professional, and so I don't know if that would have been the case if I was drafted by the Pittsburgh Penguins back then or another team that wasn't necessarily the Montreal Canadians or had the staff that they had.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, that conversation comes up so often, especially in the line of work that I'm doing right now. You know the, the place that drafts you really does matter. And even like where you go to as a junior matters. You know, like there's so many things that are wrapped around opportunity, that are wrapped around the infrastructure of the team, the culture there matters. You know, like there's so many things that are wrapped around opportunity, that are wrapped around the infrastructure of the team, the culture there. You know all those things that uh, that are paramount in in your path, in and in your personal pathway and and how that works out for you. And obviously there's lots of things that aren't in our control with that and we need to make the best of our uh, you know, of whatever opportunity we have, but it's it's. We're not being fair to the system if we're, if we're, if we're discounting that aspect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, right, no, for sure, I. I had a. I had a close friend, uh former american player who's actually he was, I don't want, I'm not going to name names, but uh, he was, uh he, he had a really really good nhl and his son, his son, who's playing right now. He's up and down between the minors and the NHL, but he was a four-year undrafted college player and he was pretty, I don't want to say he had his pick of where he could sign coming out, but he had options. There was no question about it.
Speaker 1:And I spent, you know, probably an hour or two on the phone with his dad talking about different opportunities that he had. And you know, the one thing that I really stressed to him was you know, put the money aside and you have to be in an organization where he's going to be able to thrive and develop. What is it? And he happened to be a defenseman. I said who's coaching the defense? You know what are the type of things that they're saying. How are they going to? You know, they look at him as a player that's going to develop over time or they think they're going to stick him in the lineup right away. You know, and so do you want to be on a team that's in the, you know, in the bottom third of the league for the last three years. You know what opportunities are there and so it's really.
Speaker 1:It really is challenging, though, because you know he was in a situation where, you know you have the rookie caps and everything like that, so the money's going to be fairly similar across the board. But he ended up going to an organization that was struggling and, you know, within two years he was out of there and he was in another organization and his, his self-confidence was dropping. That development, that ability for teams to develop players and there are a lot of good ones now. It wasn't necessarily the case back in the late 80s and early 90s, but there are a lot of good teams that do develop players and have a lot of knowledge today that they never they never had in the past. So, um, taking all those things into consideration, if you have that opportunity, you're not drafted. You know it's just different things to think about, different ways of thinking about things yeah, yeah, well, definitely.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've think about the san jose sharks right now, like, just for instance, right, like they, they aren't really an NHL team. So the players on that team, it's funny, right, they're in the same league, but it's not really the same league, so you're getting opportunities in that environment that other guys might not have. Some guys are going to thrive there. Maybe they're, you know, in another organization. They wouldn't be in the NHL at that point, right, they'd be in the minors working on their craft. Some guys rise to that challenge and some guys end up making it work, and some guys, when they get thrown in like that, it doesn't work out for them. It was too early, it was too soon, right. So you can't really paint it with a broad brush. I don't think that one is right for the other, but it is amazing, like, the amount of opportunity that you will get generally on a team that is lower in the in, that is lower in the standings, right, than you know, trying to make the Tampa Bay Lightning roster for the last five years in a row. It's a little bit harder as a young guy, you know, no matter how good you are. So, yeah, those are great questions, though, and to find out where it was.
Speaker 2:I mean, I even noticed that in my brief time with different teams across the NHL. I'm sure you saw it too, walking into the Montreal Canadiens. That was the creme de la creme at the time. I mean, they, they, just it was they. They oozed tradition and excellence, right like I remember Brent Gilchrist saying, like the from the guy who would take you to your seat, like it was all about winning, everything was class. You know everyone was, everything was taken care of.
Speaker 1:And then you know you go around the league and it's definitely not like that everywhere yeah, yeah, no question about that right isn't that not so mean, but from the outside, looking in the casual fan or the casual player.
Speaker 2:I mean, the nhl is the nhl, but it's vastly different experiences depending on where you're at yeah, no, absolutely 100.
Speaker 1:I. I think things are different today. I think you know you go in any nhl room and and just to be competitive, like if you, if you want, if you want to attract free agents one day, if you want, you know you're, you have to, you have to keep up with the joneses and it's. You know.
Speaker 2:They're the all, I think all the nhl take a short break from my conversation with mr Schneider to remind you that if you are listening to this podcast, you have interest in performance, I assume, and high performance at that, and you have found value, I'm sure, in the mental side of the game. It comes up over and over again in the podcast. It is, without question, the greatest competitive advantage you can have as a player. And what does Up my Hockey do? What is it all about? Well, it's about providing you with that mental advantage, with a program that is tailor-made for hockey players to be able to reach their potential, which is why I called it the Peak Potential Hockey Project. Now, if you are interested at all about mindset and you would like to dip your toe in, at least to see where you sit, I have developed a mindset quiz which is available on my website, wwwupmyhockeycom. It's in the top right portion of your screen. You click mindset quiz. It takes you maybe five minutes to respond to the questions. It will give you an idea about how mindset can impact your game, the different areas where how you think and perceive can show up to your benefit or to your detriment. When you complete the quiz, you will get a letter grade how good or how poorly is your mindset at this moment in your career? And after you press submit and you get that letter grade, I will also see your responses and it'll give us an opportunity to potentially discuss what your mindset program could or should look like.
Speaker 2:Should you be involved in the Peak Potential Hockey Project or do you think it's best that you continue on the same path that you were on? I highly recommend players work on their confidence. I highly recommend they work on their ability to self-assess. Their confidence is coming from their empowerment, and that's what I do is we give you tools to be empowered to make new choices in new situations, to rethink the game in a way that is advantageous for you, to push the envelope, to double down on your skill development and to be an amazing teammate and contributor on the ice consistently. Does that sound good? I think it does so.
Speaker 2:Why not take the mindset quiz and see if you will work with me in a peak potential hockey project, either in a group capacity called my guided mission, or as a mentored mission, where it is just you and me, one-on-one, crafting a game plan for you and your ultimate playing potential? Now let's get back to the conversation with Matthew Schneider yeah, I'm going to go back to when you said there was times that you were going to drive back to rhode island, like those are. Those are those decisive, you know, turning points in somebody's career, because there are some guys that do drive home. You know, and we all know those guys right that they do leave. Yeah, do you remember any reason like what made matthew schneider stay in one of those scenarios? What was the difference that made you not drive the car out of the country and and stay and stick it out? Do you? Do you remember any informative?
Speaker 1:moment. Oh, I mean, there was one time, the one time in particular uh, I actually, uh, serge Savard was the GM in Montreal at the time and he called me. I was like I'm like, I'm going home, home, I quit, it was, and I wasn't. I was in my car, uh, and I I think I got about two hours and then I turned around I'm like, yeah, it was, you know, it's just. And I and it was I. I had a fight. I had a fight with my coach and I I don't remember what the fight was over, uh, and, but I it was. We had a really good relationship, uh, and for some reason, we ended up getting into a fight which became a pattern over the rest of my career. I fought with all my coaches but but uh, but that that was uh, and and serge called me and he was, and just, guys, you know what's the issue and in the end.
Speaker 1:You know, I, he's, he's talked me down and and I, and I'm like, yeah, it was ridiculous. I, I don't, I don't know what I was thinking and I but it's, it's just the have a harder time controlling your emotions, I think, as a young man, I think is was, uh, was. You know the challenge and, and you know to my reaction to criticism, whether I thought it was justified or not justified or whatever the case might be, and you know, I think, at the time too, it was a combination of factors where, you know, I, I, I was probably thinking, oh, I shouldn't be here anyway, I should be playing in the NHL.
Speaker 1:And if I'm not in the NHL, I don't want to play, and you know things like that. So it, it was uh, yeah, it, you know, thinking back it's, it's completely unreasonable. You know the the, the way I was thinking. But you know I, I I look at you know my, my oldest son now is 23 and my younger son is uh 20 and you know I look at them and they make unreasonable decisions all the time, right, so, yeah, you know you're. Just the stakes are higher. You're at a different level when you're on the cusp there and, you know, trying to make it.
Speaker 2:I think that you know I'm listening to you through the lens and with the years of what I'm doing now, right, helping players.
Speaker 2:One of the things is, you know'm listening to you through the lens and with the years of what I'm doing now, right, helping players. One of the things is, you know, manage those emotions. And so I'm listening to you talk about, you know, a 19, 20 year old kid who is a kid, who is playing on a big stage, who has big things at stake, that still has a 19 year old brain, right and and without the parents and stuff, and and I can't help but think too, so you're like a third round pick, you know you're. You're somebody that's on the prospect depth chart. You're somebody that they want, like they've invested in, that, they want to play for them one day, like your rope is a little bit longer than maybe the other guy that has that same reaction and see you later. You're gone right, like moment, like how important do you think it is? Like that emotional regulation when it comes to being a pro, or even on the journey?
Speaker 1:Oh, I, I think that's everything I mean. Put put sports aside, I think you know it's one of the. I think it's one of the most important qualities or assets that any individual can have is to really, you know, keep your emotions in check, not make emotional decisions. And you know that later on in my career, you know you want to be kind of a flat line, right, you don't want to be. You know, when things are going really well, you know it's easy to get really high.
Speaker 1:A lot of those guys that get really high after you know, uh, you know one good game or two good games fall into the trap of getting really low and spiraling when you have a couple bad games. You know, you know, you know we used to joke about you can't read the newspapers now. Now kids today have social media. It makes things so much more challenging. It's so much more difficult, you know, just to pick up the phone in between periods or something. If you had a bad period, or you turn the puck over and cost a goal or things like that, how do you turn that off? It?
Speaker 1:It's a skill and it and it's you know it's, it's something that you have to you. You get the opportunity to, uh, to learn it just through time. Right, and because if you don't, you're gone pretty quickly. If, if you, if, every time you make a mistake, your game spirals and you keep getting worse and you're feeling bad for yourself and you're down and you're not playing as well, you're going to be gone pretty quickly. There's just not that room for error. And it's at all the higher levels, it's at the NCAA, it's in major junior, it's at you know, heck, you know we talk about 12-year-olds, the 12-year-old kids. Today you go to the GTHL in Toronto and kids are getting benched for making a bad pass because the coach wants to win the championship that year and it's ridiculous. So yeah, but I think that it's just a required skill to have that mental toughness, no matter what happens. I'm here, right, I can't get here and I can't get down, down too low. I can't get too high, I can't get down too low, and I think that's huge.
Speaker 2:I like to say that it is a skill. It's one thing that I, I think reframing that to people, whether it be the parents that are listening or to the athletes that this isn't something that you either have necessarily or don't have necessarily. It's something that if you want to focus on and provide intention to it that you can get better at it. And it's actually in your best interest to consciously try to get better at it, because if you don't, it might be too late to your point, right, like we don't necessarily have endless amounts of time, especially with the short window of trying to develop a hockey career, to figure it out and get it figured out, you know. So take the opportunities, like, let yourself recognize that this is something that I can get better at, that I can consciously improve, um, you know, on an accelerated rate, and you're definitely give yourself a better chance of, uh, of making things happen. So I mean, I like that skill word, right, the skill word is a good word yeah, for sure I had.
Speaker 1:I had just done a side note. I uh, we, our families, had the absolute pleasure and honor of uh hosting a woman volleyball player at our house in californ California, for a better part of the last five or six years. I guess I get lose track of time through the pandemic. But, um, melissa Humana Paradis, she's actually a BC, she's. She lives out in BC now, uh, with her boyfriend, um, but she won silver, her and her partner. They won silver in uh paris this uh past olympics.
Speaker 1:Beach volleyball, and when you, you know you, you look at individual sports versus team sports, it becomes just so much more important. Uh, you know, and and I I look at the beach volleyball, the pairs, it's. You know it's not an individual sport, but you're not, you know it's not a team like you. You know you're watching the world series and you know I I felt bad for uh otani. He wasn't hitting in the world series but the rest of his team was playing unbelievable and they go on and win a championship. Unfortunately for a judge, it didn't work out the same way. But you know, when you, when you look at a team sport like hockey, baseball, football, if you know one or two guys are having a bad night.
Speaker 1:The rest of the team can pick you up in an individual sport. You know you cannot afford to feel sorry for yourself after a bad point, after a missed shot, after any any of those things for two seconds because the set's gone and you lose a set and there's your opportunity. It's such a short window. I, I think those, those athletes are, are, I think they're even more resilient than than, you know, the team guys. And it's really incredible to see Melissa. They actually used to call her the silent assassin, but you watch her play and it's just the same all the way through and it really is incredible. But you know, I said skill. Maybe I said it accidentally, you're using it, but it is a skill that doesn't just happen overnight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you talk about those fluctuations. When I'm talking to the athletes, about mental toughness or I call actually mental agility, is that the people you're talking about, like the golfers, the tennis players, where it's like full-on display. You can't check out for a hole on display, you know you cannot. You can't check out for a hole in golf. You've lost the tournament. You can't check out for a for a set or for a game in tennis. You've, you've lost, right?
Speaker 2:I always say that those players are humans. Like stuff goes wrong, they feel bad at times, but their ability to close the gap on whatever that is that event becomes like microseconds. You know, like it's done, it's over, and then it's onto the next thing. It's done, it's over, it's onto the next thing, Whereas a hockey player does have a much more. Like there's more ability for hockey player to sit on the bench, recover, right. Like there's there's longer windows. That we're dealing with there when it comes to, uh, to that resiliency and the ability to close the gap, but it's on full display. People just get better at it than others. You know, I do think that's a thing and you see that even grow through the careers of golfers and tennis players. You watch them develop that over time, where they get better at it.
Speaker 2:It's pretty neat With you and, going back to the start of your career, I like that you started in the AHL and ended in the AHL or at least had an experience with it in the AHL Obviously close to my heart, like I think that you know, with me being a guy that was up and down and you know riding the buses and trying to make it. There's something to be said, I believe, for that route, you know, and for at least that experience. What can you say about your time in the AHL there, and did it give you any type of perspective for what was going to happen for the rest of your career?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I think the AHL has really and you know, as you just mentioned, I was, I was back in the AHL towards the end of my career due to a fight with my coach, again with Elaine Vigneault, but it was, you know, know it changed so much. You know, I think when I, when I was, when I first came up, uh, it was just starting to become more of a developmental league rather than kind of uh, I would say you know you had you had a mix of a lot of older players. You know, I say you know older, you had guys that were, you know, in their late 20s, pushing 30, that were in the American League. And now you know those were like you know, your your top goal scorers and sometimes your enforcers. But you know, generally the League was, I think it was older back then. I never looked at the numbers, but when you look at the American League today, I think you've got maybe two or three veterans on the team but you've got a very young roster and you're strictly trying to develop. It wasn't the same, but again, I go back to the organization at the time and I had a great coach when I got sent down to Sherbrooke in the American League I just had a tremendous coach that was. He was a defenseman as well and it goes back to. He taught me how to play defense. You know, playing defense in the NHL is much different than playing defense, and or it was back then. Anyway, I think it's a lot closer today.
Speaker 1:You know, when you look at college hockey or junior hockey, I feel like the jump from college or junior is not quite as big as it used to be. College or junior is not quite as big as it used to be. You know, back when I came into the league and even throughout a lot of the 90s, but the development side of the American League for me was important. You know, it was just another piece to the puzzle that kind of allowed me or gave me the opportunity to have a long career. So at the end of my career, you know, I, I it was, it was literally I got into a fight with Vino and Mike Gillis was the GM, was actually my, my, my former agent. When, when, before he became the president and GM of Vancouvercouver and he's like oh, I'll try to trade you, but uh, you gotta go down to you, gotta go down to manitoba. I was like I was like, all right, uh went down to manitoba for a couple weeks when I was at, so but, um, no, it it was. Uh, you know it was. It was really I.
Speaker 1:I thought the game itself and Manitoba was an independent team and they had gone to the Calder Finals the year before, but they were just decimated with injuries. I mean, we had guys on that team that had trouble catching a pass, literally, so it was. I think we won one game. I played about six or seven games there. I think we won one game. I played about six or seven games there. I think we won one of them and we probably shouldn't have won that one either. Um, but it it was. Uh, that was a little challenging, you know, I, I'm, I'm breaking out from behind my net and I'm looking at our guys at the far blue line waiting for passes. It was just, it was uh, you know that was. I was. I felt like I was in a different, different world. But uh, my two experiences were polar opposites of being an admirers there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the perspective is nice though, too, like I think, mind you, actually maybe we should go on that, because you, you did play nhl games this season before. Uh, you mentioned that. You kind of in your head thought that you want, should be in the nhl. I mean, a lot of guys do right that you were there, maybe we're successful. And then now you start your pro career in the minors. Was there any issue at all with, like you know, playing where your feet were or where your skates were, as I like to say, like being in that?
Speaker 1:moment, or or were you kind of out of your head. I wasn wasn't really thrilled about it. I wasn't happy about it. We had some great players down there. I'm trying to think now. Lyle O'Dwine was down there. He ended up being my partner in the NHL for a while.
Speaker 2:Lots of NHLers. I'm looking at the list right now. Steph Van Rische was there. Andrew Castles, benoit Brunet, mark Peterson we had Richer was there, yeah, andrew Castles, andrew Castles, yeah.
Speaker 1:Mark Peterson. Oh yeah, we had some great, great players down there, so that certainly made it easier. But I think that year Montreal had they kept nine defensemen up and I was 10th. They had sent me down up and I was, I was 10th. They said they had sent me down and, uh, I actually had a call and into my agent, had a call on the surge. You were asking for a trade if I'm not gonna. You know, you got nine defensemen up where. You know where am I on that and total ball and I, you know I felt like I could play um.
Speaker 1:They ended up getting four injuries, four guys got hurt and I get called up. It was early December. I got called up, um, and I. I played my first two or three games Pat Burns was the coach and uh, and, and I stayed. After that I stayed in the lineup and uh, and I never looked back after after that, but it was uh, it was challenging for sure. Having having great teammates, having a great coach down in sherbrooke was was certainly wonderful. But you know, I I thought it was ready to play and I was, and, and so you know it just worked out. It was another one of those things like it could have worked out where I just where they traded me too, if they did, if four guys don't get hurt on the fence, which was incredible when.
Speaker 1:I look back and think about it. I could have ended up somewhere else easily too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no kidding, or maybe not traded and playing a whole year in the.
Speaker 1:AHL. And yeah, absolutely right you know, it's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2:Uh, you never know, so that's cool. Yes, you got up and started to play and then, shit man, 1300 games later, uh, and a cup in your third year. Like was that? I mean, I would assume that's still the pinnacle, like it was that? Was that the best experience as a as a hockey player for you?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, that was. That was amazing. I guess my only regret is that I was so young when I won it. You know I was 23. I thought, oh, I'm going to win it a few more times. You know that was it. But you know, having won it in Montreal was just incredible. Obviously, being there, and you know the group of guys that we had were incredible. We just had our 30th reunion last year in Montreal which was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so you know, I think if I had to pick one spot that I was going to win it. Looking back over the course of my career, montreal was the place. And you know, I wish, like I said, I wish I was older and I would have enjoyed it and appreciated it a lot more, because it was. It's everybody that plays in the NHL should get the opportunity to lift that cup. You know you get there, it's just there's not a feeling like it in the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Did it make it even somehow more special that it was against gretter and the and the kings?
Speaker 1:yeah, you know again, you look at, you know, you look at how like you know destiny or fate or whatever the case might be and I remember, uh, so you go back, go back a couple series through that whole playoff run. You know we were I actually I got hurt in the first round. We're playing Quebec. Quebec had a great team. Sackick, sundin was there, hextall was their goal. They were up to nothing. Guys were, guys were getting ready to book their summer vacations.
Speaker 1:We were back at, we were thinking this is going to be a tough one to bounce back from. And then, all of a sudden, you know we won four straight. We played Buffalo beat them four straight. And we're watching the Islanders Pittsburgh series, and Pittsburgh was just off the charts. Right, they won 91. They won 92.
Speaker 1:Mario in the height of it, and the islanders knock him off in game seven. They're like, oh my god, this is unbelievable. The islanders had a great team too, I I mean. But pittsburgh was just, you know it was, they were incredible. So we end up, we got lucky there. We, we played the islanders, we had a good series against the islanders. Get through that. And you know we're watching. We're watching gretz and we're watching the, the, the toronto, la series, and toronto had an unbelievable team back then too, like thinking of gilmore and clark right in the prime of their career, and I mean they were, they were really good. But the difference between them and la for us, I think, was they were a big, heavy, tough team in toronto and la was more of a skill finesse. Um, they had some toughness, there's no question about it, uh. But I think I say this begrudgingly but I feel like if we would have had to play Toronto that year, I feel like Toronto would have beat us. We just, I don't know if we had, they were just a heavy team.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then you know. And then in the finals you know we end up winning the second game in overtime. And poor Marty McSorley I'm friends with him to this day and I still feel bad for him about it but his illegal stick gets called and we end up tying it. And Eric Desjardins had a hat-trick Unbelievable game. But you look at all those things and how they lined up Ten overtimes. Patrick Patrick Ruaj just stood on his head night in and night out. He was unbelievable and you know all the things that just kind of fall into place. But you know that that wasn't it you. We were out of the 16 teams that made the playoffs that year. You probably would have had us about 15 or 16 on the odds to win it. You know we lost. I think we lost like eight of our last 10 games going into the playoffs that year too. Wow, it was a wild season that's so fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, things got to go right, you know, and that's that's the thing like I completely embrace and support, like the celebration of champions. But I think that the media overdoes like the difference between getting to the final and losing, and getting to the final and winning. Like you know, they've, both teams have figured it out. I think you know just one team, for whatever reason, comedy of errors. You know luck, you know the circumstances. Whatever the case may be, something pushes them over the edge, which is amazing, and when you get to do it is it is so special. But even getting to the semi-finals at that level, like you've, you have to do so many things right and you have to come together as a team in so many ways and you know, overcome so much adversity that it's uh, you know, I just think it's bad in the hall of fame kind of discussion, these types of things.
Speaker 2:Well, did you ever win? Well, holy smokes. There's so many things that have to go right, you know for that to happen right? Yeah, um, that is tough to put that on one player and that they were some type of a failure because they weren't able to accomplish it right yeah, yeah no it's uh, I mean hockey more than any other sport.
Speaker 1:It's a true team effort. You you cannot win a championship with 12 guys, even with 15 guys. You need your third line to pitch in. You need your 5-6 D to pitch in when guys get hurt. You need guys that are the 22nd, 23rd guy. You need them to step in and play at the highest level possible. You need your goaltender to stand on his head every night, and you need to do that for two months straight. Right, and so it truly is. I look at basketball and I feel like and maybe I just don't know enough about basketball I feel like you can win with three or four great players. You can win a basketball championship, and teams have done it In hockey. That's not the case, right? You need everybody peaking at the same time.
Speaker 2:Isn't that what makes it so freaking beautiful?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, it is. It's at every level too, though that's major junior, I think Memorial Cup, I mean that's incredible, NCAA same thing, it's all that's hockey.
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love it and when you get it right and you feel it with all the teams you played on, there's just something about that culture that is different. I mean guys care about each other in a different way. You know guys are valued in a different way. You know, from top to bottom. There's just a there's a different vibe about that and it's so special when you got it and you you just can't undo it once you've seen it. Do right like it's. It's a difference maker with as far as you, and just from an individual.
Speaker 2:You mean, I was looking you up a little bit before. I try not to look too deep, to be completely honest, because I think that that's where the authenticity of the of the conversation maybe fades. But like some really cool highlights, you know, one being led the uh NHL and points of the defenseman in goals and other season Like those are high, high accolades like how, how was that from a mental side of it, one like being in nhl or sounds like you had quite a bit of belief in yourself from a young age that you thought you were good enough to be there and should be there. At what point did your belief system allow you to be one of the best in the game and, in a couple of scenarios, the best at your position in the game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, you know, there were different opportunities that I had throughout my career that were really, you know, I guess the first one, the first one I would say, was when Jacques Demers came in to, when he replaced Pat Burns and when Pat was there and the defensive, the whole system was a very defensive system. You know, we used to play the neutral zone trap, right, and they didn't want defensemen jumping up into the rush unless we were going to create an outnumbered rush. We were really like they kind of had the D, you know, holding us back all the time, really felt that you know, our job was defense first and in all honesty, that allowed me, I think, to be able to play as long as I did, because defense was always the first responsibility. I had that in my mind. I wasn't going to take unnecessary risk and that was something that was ingrained in us, all of us in Montreal, the defense that were playing there.
Speaker 1:But when Jacques came in, jacques kind of took the handcuffs off of me and he said go, I want you to go and create offense. And that's what I was in junior. I was an offensive defenseman but I didn't have that defensive side of my game. I couldn't contain guys in the corner until they really taught me. And so you know, on one hand it was great, on the other hand I missed the offensive side of stuff and and then Jack really kind of brought that out of me again and I started to started to produce, uh, uh, some more points, more goals, I think you know.
Speaker 1:The other thing is my shot. I always had a pretty good shot but I worked on my shots so much with all the other one-timers, things like that, getting pucks through to the net number one, but that just became a big weapon for me and I think you know, a lot of my points came off one-timer slap shots or rebound assists and things like that. So I think, as my shot got better over the course of my career, that led to a lot of my points. That led to a lot of my points. And then you know, in Detroit I had some good years and I think that a lot of that, you know, credit to the guys that were around me, not around me, that I was around.
Speaker 1:You know when I think about that. I got to Detroit and what was it? 2001? Sorry, no, it was 2003. Sorry, 2003,. I got to Detroit. There were 11 Hall of Famers on that team. Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg were alternating fourth-line centers. The fourth line was Robitaille Larionov and either Zetterberg or Gatsik that was the fourth line that I got there. And it was just I mean, you know, you go up and down that roster. It was crazy. And so to have the ability to play with those guys in that lineup was I mean that was just so much fun playing there in Detroit with those guys.
Speaker 1:Um, and the game, the game felt easy. You know, every night you went out, you look forward, you, you knew you, you went out there every single night thinking you're going to win. And I I don't think there was another team that I ever played on when I felt that way. I mean you felt you know there were. I felt the opposite. A couple of years when I was, when I felt that way I mean you felt, you know there were I felt the opposite a couple of years when I was with the Atlanta Thrashers one year. That was a grind, but you know, to feel like I mean you should win every single night that you got to step on the ice. That was just incredible. So that was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:But you know, playing with those guys and then you, the other, the other aspect of it in Detroit, that, uh, I got there as a 31 year old, I was, I had gotten traded from LA and I was, I was, I was I think I was the second oldest guy on the team in LA and I got traded to Detroit and I was, I was like I think, 11th or 12th oldest on the team. But the thing that amazed me, you know, I always had this preconception that you get to the NHL, you got a set of skills. You know, could you get better at goal scoring? Yeah, maybe a little bit. Could you get better? You could get better at goal scoring? Yeah, maybe a little bit Could you get better. You could get better at certain things.
Speaker 1:But those guys when I think of Iserman, shanahan, robitaille you just go down the list of the players there they were such students of the game and they were talking about goal scoring and you know other other goalies, weaknesses that I never heard ever before in my career. And I'm thinking I play, I played over 10 years already and I haven't seen this and I played on several teams. It was just amazing to me the way they thought about offense and creating it and goal scoring. I just hadn't seen and and it made me better, there's no question about it Brett Hall, like his whole philosophy. It made complete sense when he said it to me.
Speaker 1:But it you're, you're watching him score goals, picking corners here and there, and he's like I'm not picking corners. He goes I'm shooting up or down, left or right, that's it. There's four quadrants and I'm just trying to hit. He goes I'm shooting up or down, left or right, that's it. There's four quadrants and I'm just trying to hit the net and that's it. Up or down, left or right. I'm like that makes complete sense and he's just shooting, he's just shooting, he's a shooter. So you know, when you start to think about the game differently and guys are sharing those type of uh, those type of uh insights, it just made everybody better and you, you look at that. You look at how that team over those years and even still, I I'm sure stevie still has the same you know mentality as a general manager. That's why tampa is so successful too.
Speaker 1:But yeah you know, just that idea that you, you keep learning from one another, you know as teammates, is incredible, and I hadn't experienced that really until until I got there and just it was just such a great time, great team, great guys, but yeah that's amazing.
Speaker 2:The uh, I mean that whole concept essentially is growth mindset versus fixed mindset, which is something that I've studied quite extensively since getting out of the game and it's been an absolute game changer for me on a personal level like to understand that Because, to your point, it shows up in so many different ways just in life. But if you can incorporate that growth mindset, philosophy, strategy into your sports, into your team, into the idea of what you guys want to become, it's a game changer. Because as an NHLer you're right A lot of the guys that were there, you're the best players in the world. There was no skill development back in the 90s and the 2000s. There was no skill development guy. If you weren't playing in the lineup, you'd stay after and you'd work on stuff with whoever told you to work on stuff. But in the lineup you'd stay after and you'd work on stuff with whoever told you to work on stuff. But it wasn't necessarily ground into the players there. We were just trying to get through. Play the next game, right, play the next game now. If you get on that team that everyone's still trying to push and trying to get better, whether it's in the weight room or it's in practice, or it's after. If it's before, like that's contagious and you do actually get better, like Like that's the other thing you know, like you improve, so it's, it's, it's. Yeah, I mean that's awesome that you were able to see that and you know you said 10 years into a career to see that and to see the impact that it can have. I mean it speaks to that whole idea of I mean, if you can adopt that early and choose that mindset, you know it's massively helpful.
Speaker 2:Take another short break from the conversation with Matthew Schneider to remind coaches out there if you want to be involved in the game as a job whether you are coaching an academy, a youth team, a minor hockey team if you have a passion for helping people succeed and grow and develop, maybe you can be the next up, my hockey ambassador or affiliate. What that would mean is working with me, side by side, essentially with my programs, to deliver them to your potential community, your geographic region or even outside of that region. On Zoom calls, I have no more room to handle the calls and to handle the clients and handle the teams that want to work on their mindset. This is a great way to expand your coaching expertise to grow in an area of hockey that is being underserved right now and with a reputable brand of Up my Hockey and myself. So, if this sounds like something you'd be interested in, I have been receiving more calls and more inquiries about this recently and it's exciting. So join, I can build a team and I want to build a team, and it's an exciting time at Up my Hockey with the growth that is happening.
Speaker 2:So, yes, do you check the box of hockey experience? Do you check the box of being a hockey coach or hockey influencer? Do you have a hockey network in your area? Do you want to help players succeed and do you want to be compensated for your help? If those are checkboxes, then by all means, reach out to me, jason, at upmyhockeycom, and we'll see if we're a good fit. I'm excited to receive your email. Get it into me and let's rock and roll. Now let's get back to the conversation with Matthew Schneider. How good. I want to ask this question because you you, as a d-man, uh and a hell of a good d-man played alongside Nick Lidstrom for for four years. Uh, I just love watching him play. You know from you know, I was able to play against him, so grateful for that. But just even from a video standpoint to watch him, he was really, really compelling to, was he great to play with and to learn from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, amazing, amazing. I mean I think I think the the first thing you hear whenever anybody asks someone that played with Nicky is a great player, better human being, that's, you know, that's that's the what you hear consistently. And he there just wasn't a weakness to his game, you know, and he just kept getting better and better and better Played with great players. But you know, he made everybody around him better and he's just an amazing guy. I mean, you can't say enough, you can't say enough about him. Uh, you know, he was fortunate to be in that organization at that time and you know, and with all those great players, but you know he was a huge part of creating that environment. You know that that I described, just, you know, talking about talking about everybody learning from one another.
Speaker 1:And you know, if you didn't know anything about hockey and you met Nick Lidstrom, you would. You would just like the guy. You'd want to just sit down and have coffee with him and go for beers and he's just that type of person. Right, and it zero ego, right, this is it. Uh, it would never know in a million years. He was the greatest defenseman of all time. So, uh, I mean, I think you know there's probably no one that would think any differently than that, which is amazing, right.
Speaker 2:That's super cool, would you? Would you put him on that pedestal that you just said that it was, that it was that exaggeration, or do you think he is the best?
Speaker 1:No, no, I I you know. I mean when you look at the, when you look at the, I mean you look at the different errors. Not errors, but errors.
Speaker 1:ERA and the amount of. You know the skill level, the physicality, the way the game has morphed over the years. You know, I think you know he played. He went probably similar to me. I think he started. He started I would 89, 90 was my first year. I think he might've been 91, 92 or somewhere, maybe 92, 93.
Speaker 1:But you look at how the game changed over over uh, the those two decades from, uh, the nin 90s to 2000s and it started to become uh, less physical, more skill. You know, I think back there were, there were defensemen when I first came in the league that had a hard time pivoting backward to frontward. You know five, six defense, when there were just big guys that would just beat the heck out of you in front of the net, in the corners. You know they just wear you down and they'd hook and hold and they cross check you and it was a, it was a brutal game back then and it started to get more and more skill. They took out a lot of the hooking and holding. Later on, in the 90s and, and you know, different times, the game got real. You know players got really big and fast and strong. You think of guys like Lindros and Primo and John McClare and you think of these big. And now the game is super fast every single night and the skill level's through the roof. Every single player can pivot on a dime and, you know, pick up the puck with a stick and throw it over his.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's crazy where it's gone from, but as you morph through it, like Nick had zero, there were zero weaknesses in his game, like there was nothing that you could say. You couldn't beat him, you couldn't get around him. You probably couldn't beat him two-on-one you very rarely beat him two-on-one Making bad decisions with the puck, you know, I think I think of all the different pizzas I threw up the middle that ended up in the back of our net. I don't ever remember nick ledstrom throwing a pizza up the middle of the ice. Maybe he did, but uh, just you know everything that he did offensively, defensively, and you know everything that he did offensively, defensively. And then you know, obviously, his leadership ability. You know I never played with Bobby Orr, but Nick Lidstrom was the best from, you know my 20 years, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:To be able to transfer through all those decades and the different aspects of the game, and he made everything look easy. That's the thing when I talk to players about being competitive too, and some guys that maybe aren't overly physical, right, but sometimes players have a hard time understanding what that means from a competitive standpoint. You know, I'm not a hitter. Well, watch Nick Lidstrom play defense. He would rarely hit anybody, but he'd always end up with the puck somehow. Play defense like he would rarely hit anybody, but he'd always end up with the puck somehow. Yeah, right like yeah, smarts and competitive in a different way, right like um, there was just, he was so cerebral. I loved the way he played the game and it was fun to watch him.
Speaker 2:Maybe you can unpack the good teammate aspect, though, because I love that as a conversation piece too. Does it boil down to having no ego? Because in this team environment that we just talked about, the success of a hockey team requires a group of individuals to give a shit about each other, right, and not everyone's going to love each other, but the value of being a good teammate does factor into that. You know and and and how that even happens. Do you describe whether it's nick lidstrom. Or even in your eye, in your mind, like what a good teammate looks like as a hockey player yeah, well, you know the, the dressing room in Detroit was was really.
Speaker 1:It was so interesting. It was uh, you know, I, I guess I, if I, if I go back, I'll start by the first dressing room. When I went in, I played my first four games in Montreal. Bob Ganey was the captain there in Montreal and the back. Then I think there was just such tremendous respect like he was, I don't know, it was almost like royalty. I get it felt like. Felt like I maybe it's the wrong word, but almost it was. He was almost unapproachable to me. I had it. It was just like and I was a rookie Larry Robinson was on that team too.
Speaker 1:He was actually he was hurt. That's what kind of gave me my first break. He had broken his leg in the summer and I stayed up a little bit. They were trying to fill a hole because they thought he was going to miss a big part of the season. Because they thought he was going to miss a big part of the season. But those two guys I mean they were you know you're playing with, you know Hall of Famers, icons. I mean it was just incredible and that was. It was I just I felt like a five-year-old kid in that dressing room. So and you know that was how it was back then. I guess fast forward to Detroit, where I was, and you know again I list off, like all the Hall of Fame guys that were there from you know, Stevie White Shanahan to Dominic Hasek and Brett Hall and Luke Robitaille and Larry Honoff, I mean, and then you and then the younger
Speaker 1:guys. So you're managing personalities, but there was a hierarchy in the sense that Stevie Y was the leader in the dressing room. No questions hands down. He had been there through all the tough times early in his career all the tough times, when you know, early in his career and they were built into a winter through the through the 90s, with scotty bowman coming there and everything. But stevie was the guy and if, if stevie didn't say much in the dress room, nobody else was really right. Maybe, maybe, shanning a little bit.
Speaker 1:Brendan shanahan was a little more vocal. He was a little. He was a little bit. Brendan Shanahan was a little more vocal. He was a little strange. He had a lot of superstitions and stuff.
Speaker 1:Shani, I used to mess with him with all the superstitions, but Stevie was the guy right and Nicky had the A on all the time too, but Nicky, neither one of them were really very vocal and it was a pretty quiet dressing room most of the time. Oh, granted, things went well a lot of the time we were there, but it was, it was a, it was a pretty quiet dressing room and it was real interesting because I had come from. There was a lot of rah-rah and a lot of dressing rooms that I played in on all all my different teams. You always had a couple of guys that would get, you know, really fired up and but everybody took their cue from Stevie and if Stevie said something, everybody, whether whether it was Hully or Shani or Nikki and Stevie talked, everybody just zip and that's it. You know it was his dressing room, so they were real interesting.
Speaker 1:But at the same time you came into that room and you were in line. I'm 31 years old, walking into that room for the first time, played against these guys for the last 10 years. Some of them I knew better than others from. You know Team USA and things like that that I've already played with them before, but no one was stepping out of line and it was really. It was really incredible, right?
Speaker 1:you know that as long as Stevie was there, that was the case and then that kind of got passed down when Stevie, when Stevie retired and Nicky became captain, that that got passed down and I imagine it was the same up until up until Nicky left. But you know, I guess that's not answering your question directly about I think there's there's different ways to be a really good teammate but in the end.
Speaker 1:It's caring about each other, right, it's caring about each other off the ice. If you, if, if you don't like a guy off the ice, I guess you can fake it for a while maybe, but you know, and if things are going well on the ice, everything's good. But when things start to go sideways, if you got a guy that's really not a good person or only worried about his own stats or his own performance, not puts himself before the team, that gets flushed out pretty quickly at higher levels. For sure, right At junior college, nhl, ahl, that gets flushed out pretty quickly. And and you know I, I think you know it it it's difficult on a hockey team. For sure you can't thrive when you're that type of player.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, one of the things I try and say well, it separates, I think, great from good, and you've mentioned it a couple of times is the ability to make other people better, and there's very few, you know, like like I mean Crosby comes to mind all the time like anyone who plays with him is is better, always right, and not all superstars are like that, in that magnitude.
Speaker 2:But if you can do that on the ice, I think there's also that feeling in the dressing room because there is a, a comfort level, right, a value level, and I think there's some guys that have the ability to do that, to bring others up, you know, instead of looking down or, you know, making them feel bad about themselves in whatever way.
Speaker 2:It's just it's that lifting of the, of the boats, I think. And when guys, when guys are able to do that, especially guys that recognize and understand the power they have and the influence they have over the room you mentioned Stevie there a ton of times like he I'm sure he was aware of the presence that he had and you know him talking to a young guy coming in that was on his first game or just joined the team like the influence that can have coming from somebody like that is freaking, mind-blowing for that young guy yeah, yeah, yeah, were you ever aware of that as you went through, you know, consciously aware of you, know how your position changed and how maybe your, your contribution, your conversation, your willingness to maybe take some out for a dinner could have a big impact on them.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, I mean in Montreal, that was, that was ingrained in me, you know, I think you know you mentioned you had Brian Scrooge on before your show.
Speaker 1:There was my rookie year, the year that I got called up from Montreal. Actually, sorry, this is my second year. It was my sophomore year, my second year. Pat Burns and I were getting into it a lot more. He was on me all the time. He was great to me my first year. Second year, he was on me all the time. He was great to me my first year. Second year, he was on me all the time. He was riding me. I guess he didn't want me to get an ego, I'm not sure, but he was riding me all the time and we were playing in Boston.
Speaker 1:We had several injuries. I think Carbo was our captain, he was out and I think Screwy was probably the real veteran in the room and we had a fairly young team. We certainly had a young defensive core. But, pat, I took a bad penalty at the end of the period and I'm walking into the dress room and I go to go and put my helmet up in my stall and pat burns beelines to me, grabs me but it's, and puts me up against that, against my stall, and I I pushed him back against the Gatorade table. The coaches jumped in and they brought Pat to the back.
Speaker 1:I'm sitting there, I'm hyperventilating, I'm going what the heck just happened to him? I was 20 years old and I was sitting there. Pat Burns has me there, brian Scrooge gets up and he and he goes right to the back and starts screaming at Bernsie what the hell are you doing? What in the world will make it? And and I was like, wow, like he's. You know, he's standing up for me. I like, and and that was that was what you know, brian screwing Guy Carboneau, I think back, you mentioned Brent Gilchrist those guys Shane Corson and I was there guys that I really looked up to, that I admired, that were leaders in the dressing room. You know, they stood up for me and that was to me, that was ingrained in me.
Speaker 1:That's one example, but there are a bunch of others. Pat wasn't always throwing me up against the locker, but it was, but you know that those type of things like that's what was part of who I was later on, you know, trying to make sure that, yeah, you know, maybe, maybe not in that drastic or black and white situation, but you know, coach is riding a guy, he's having a bad week, or you know a few bad games going over, just having that conversation with him. Hey, block it out or you know what you can do. You know, you know the type of player. You are back on track. One game, one period and just those type of things from teammates go a long, long way, right, yeah big time Makes a big difference.
Speaker 2:Well, we'll catch you for an hour. You mentioned it so many times and it's a very real aspect of the game. So I want to finish with the coach altercations, because it just came up again. So you said it kind of became a theme throughout your career.
Speaker 2:Um, that battle sometimes it depends on who's who's the bench boss, right, what their philosophy is. It all depends on the character and the personality of the player too, for how these things unravel. But there usually needs to be some level of communication and sometimes we do have to stand up for ourselves as players, right, some are more akin to it than others. Some people do it in different ways. How, just talk about, like your experience with that and I don't even know where to lead you with that, but like you obviously weren't scared of the altercation, you know, is there anything that learned through, about that through your career? Any advice you'd have to players about how to approach coaches, like I don't know like you take the lead on that, but it's definitely a real part of being a hockey player yeah, no, it is.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm not sure I would advise kids or players to do it. I mean, that's that's looking back. It's probably a big reason why I played on 10 different teams, or, of course, kids or players to do it. Looking back, it's probably a big reason why I played on 10 different teams over the course of my career. In the end, there were situations that I was in, whether it was New York Islanders I'm trying to think I wasn't necessarily in that role in Detroit because there were so many guys in the dressing room you know, I was there for four years.
Speaker 1:But when I was with the Islanders or the Leafs or LA Kings all different teams, you know, I, in a lot of cases I, I was always, I was taking my teammates side, over the coach's side, and sometimes that, you know, wasn't necessarily viewed as a positive thing by coaching staff and so, um, you know, I, I just it was, I was, I was more vocal.
Speaker 1:In that sense, I would challenge coaches and I don't think I did it necessarily for myself personally. I felt like when I did it, it was always for my teammates, for the team, and I would say probably I wore my heart on my sleeve too. It gets me in trouble with my wife too, as you can imagine. But some things, some things are better left unsaid I guess. But it was just there, was, I guess, goes back to I'll blame Screwy for this. So I'll you know, he went in and did that and it kind of became a part of me. But it's you know, I think things could have gone a lot smoother if I kept my mouth shut in different situations, I guess. But I always felt that it was part of my responsibility as a leader on different teams to be vocal and express my opinion.
Speaker 2:So sometimes it worked out out, sometimes it didn't well, I mean fair enough, I mean, but there's, I mean there's obviously there's an underlying passion there with you you know a passion for the sport, a passion for the game, a passion that came out.
Speaker 2:I'm sure that helped you play as long as you did, and sometimes that you know there's a, there's a knife edge there, that you're walking right and and it's going to show up in the interpersonal conflicts that happen and and I'm sure some of the coaches again respected it because they knew that was part of you and some guys maybe didn't weren't so fond of it, but it is a bit of the being authentic to you, I think, as a player and and uh, and I do think that's a very important aspect. You know there are things that we can mold and we do want to develop and grow, evolve, you know, personal evolution, but there is just innate parts of us that I think we need to embrace, you know, and allow and allow to happen, because when we're trying to be someone that we're not too, you know how that goes usually not very well, right, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, uh.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what I really enjoyed this conversation, you know. Thanks for coming on. I'm sure we could probably do this for another hour or two, but we both got things to do, so, uh, I'll let you.
Speaker 2:I'll let you off the hook. Is there any last advice? You know my audience is is usually hockey coaches, hockey parents, you know, kids that are, uh, you know, moving up through the system, that want a chance to play at some level, at some level of higher hockey, whether that be junior or NCAA. What, maybe passing words, would you give to the guys that are trying to follow in your footsteps?
Speaker 1:Well, I think you know I'll try not to be cliched, but you know sometimes it's hard to because I mean the the. The truth is, you know what is it? It's the top 1% ever end up. End up playing in the NHL or playing professionally, making a career, making a living out of. But having the dream to do it is certainly amazing, certainly something extremely honorable to aspire to.
Speaker 1:But it's the lessons that you learn as an athlete, a hockey player. You learn as an athlete, a hockey player, day to day, the work ethic, the camaraderie, the team around you that translates into everything that you do and helps you become a better person, a better coworker. And to me, there's no better life lessons than what I learned as a hockey player and throughout my career. And so I think don't lose sight of that fact. The journey everybody's got their own journey and there are a lot of different paths, particularly in hockey, to becoming a professional player and take all the lessons and learn from them and apply them in everything that you do. And if you do that, you're going to be happy with yourself and you're going to be successful.
Speaker 2:And that's my two cents, yeah no, I love it, I love it. I mean, that's really you're're echoing kind of what I say with with what I do. If we can align, if you have a great big goal, I think that's amazing, like a lot of us don't, right? So if somebody has a goal out there, love it, I love it. There's going to be passion and there's going to be some you know, some rawness behind that. Now, if you can align your words and your actions with that goal, who knows what's going to happen? Right, you might get there, you might not, but that alignment and that chase and that process is immensely invaluable with anything right. So that's what I'm just grateful for.
Speaker 2:With my boys, like they love hockey. It could have been anything, it could have been the ukulele, it doesn't matter to me, but they've chose to love hockey and they've chose to get behind hockey and they've chose to put their blood, sweat and tears into it. And after that I don't give a rip, like they're already, they're already learning right, wherever they're going to end up, they're going to end up. But there's going to be a lot of lessons involved in that and I'm accountability of that is important to me too. So, uh, you know, grateful for this game, grateful that it brought us together, brought us together today and hopefully we were able to share some, some lessons that are that are helping others out there. So, uh, again, schneider's really appreciate you coming on and, um, we'll have to do it again sometime.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me Great being on. Thank you so?
Speaker 2:much for being here for episode 142 of the up my hockey podcast, with matthew schneider as our special guest. Uh, fantastic to be able to connect with schneids again. It's been a long time. Uh, and boy, I really enjoy connecting with him. Smart guy, intellectual guy, well spoken, well thought, uh out answers and uh, and really still connected extensively throughout the hockey world, not only with the PA but also the alumni, and has his fingers in a few other ventures that we spoke about after. So great insights there from one of the game's best really one of the game's best to ever play 1,289 games was a valued defenseman wherever he went, uh, an offensive contributor and uh and a solid teammate. So lots of good stuff for you to take away from that conversation, as I know you will. And uh, I will leave you with that. So play hard and keep your head up till next time. I'm Jason Padoll with the Up my Hockey podcast. Cheers.