Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan
EP.139: Unlocking NHL Draft Secrets - Insights from Elite Prospects with Cam Robinson
Unlock the secrets of NHL draft evaluations with Elite Prospects' very own Cam Robinson. Have you ever wondered how the NHL’s 32 teams prioritize various player attributes, leading to wildly different draft lists? Cam breaks it all down, offering invaluable advice on how players can make themselves stand out in this highly competitive arena. From grassroots to professional ranks, discover how Elite Prospects serves as an essential resource for players, parents, and recruiters alike.
This episode reveals the importance of understanding and showcasing your strengths while minimizing weaknesses. We discuss the balance between individual skills and team play, and why effort, coachability, and progression over time are critical. Emotional maturity, leadership qualities, and the modern challenges faced by youth athletes are also examined, giving you a holistic understanding of player development. Whether you're a player, parent, or coach, this episode offers a treasure trove of insights into succeeding in the competitive world of hockey.
No, you're absolutely right, and we talk about that. You know, when I get asked about like, oh, where's this guy going to be drafted, where's he going to be projected? And it's like, oh, you know, we like them in this spot, but all it takes is one team, right, one team to see you at a certain event where they see you shine in an area that they value. Right, and because it is like the across the board, you know, 32 NHL teams, their lists are wildly different, wildly different. Right, maybe at the top it's going to be very similar, but like throughout the way, like it's crazy, because they all value different things, they all see these players at different times and so you never know who's watching. But you exactly right is that you find? What can I bring to the table?
Speaker 2:That was Cam Robinson from EliteProspectscom, and you are listening to episode 139 of the Up my Hockey podcast with Jason Padolan. Welcome to Up my Hockey with Jason Padolan, where we deconstruct the NHL journey, discuss what it takes to make it and have a few laughs along the way. I'm your host, jason Padolan, a 31st overall draft pick who played 41 NHL games but thought he was destined for a thousand. Learn from my story and those of my guests. This is a hockey podcast about reaching your potential. Hey there, welcome back, or welcome to the Up and Hockey podcast. This is episode 139, and today you are going to be listening to a conversation I had with Cam Robinson.
Speaker 2:Cam Robinson is a member of Elite Prospects that's EliteProspectscom, or EP as sometimes is known in the industry, which is essentially your database for anything hockey related when it comes to stats and or tournaments and or rosters. It's similar to, I mean, one of their competitors, which you know. Whatever I can say here, of course, is HockeyDB. Now, the difference between HockeyDB and Elite Prospects, or at least one of the main differences I see, is that there are no youth athletes or amateur athletes on hockey DB. So once you become a pro, hockey DB will cover you. Elite prospect starts at the grassroots level, which I think is super, super cool. So they'll start, um, you know, representing players as soon as they get to a league that they cover. So there are a lot of 13 year olds, 12 year 12-year-olds, even down to younger ages. I believe that they start as young as the brick tournament. Every year We'll cover your stats where you played, who was on the roster, what your goals were, assists were penalty minutes, so on and so forth, and it's exciting One. It's exciting for the players to see themselves on the internet that their stats are tracked, and it's also for the players to see themselves on the internet that their stats are tracked. And it's also fun for parents to see. And it's a great resource and a great tool for recruiters out there. Whether you're an evaluator for a junior team or some type of a spring program or college scouts, I mean you can pull this up and you can see in a snapshot what this person has done and where they've gone, which is a lot of fun. And Cam is a key piece of this. Cam Robinson, my guest today. He is director of content for EP and he's also director of film scouting, so he does a big part of watching the amateur draft each year the participants or the players that are eligible for the amateur draft and he's a key piece of the absolute encyclopedia of media that they put together for their draft document that Elite Prospects produces every year. Cam was at the draft this year on the floor covering the draft. He gets to do his own picks for EP and is out there watching everybody and so it's fun. So this conversation was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Anytime I have a chance to talk to evaluators, to scouts, how they watch the game, what's their approach when they sit down, how often they see a player, what they look for, what stands out, this should be like music to your ears. If you are a young athlete out there, or a parent, or not even just a young athlete like any hockey player out there, how are you graded, how are you evaluated? How can you do your best to stand out from a mix of 40 players on the ice on any given night? And that's what a lot of this conversation centered around. We do talk about elite prospects, as elite prospects is one of my partners with UMH 68. And along with up my hockey, we have. We have joined forces as they're going to be part of. You know the sponsorship element there, and any player that plays for UMH 68 tournament gets their stats on elite prospects. So if they weren't already covered they will be their new profile would be created For most. For most players are already on there and their tournament stats will be included on elite prospects, which is a really cool thing, not only for UMH 68 to be recognized, as there are a lot of tournaments out there, as I'm sure most of you know, from east to west, all across North America, and Elite Prospects doesn't just pick anyone to partner with. They only choose to participate with the best and the ones that they feel have the most credibility. So that's a really great honor for UMH 68 and anyone who plays in it.
Speaker 2:For me, and it's also great to align with such a company. That is really, in my mind, giving back to the game, it's really cool the way they're going to the grassroots of it. They're developing players, they're celebrating players. They're giving players an opportunity to showcase themselves, to be able to share more about themselves, whether through their heights and weights and their traditional stats, or also media reels and highlight reels that can be on their profiles and really allows them to get exposure to a wider audience. So really fun having this conversation with Cam. His story in and of itself is really cool how he got started, what he's doing now, how he serves the hockey community and elite prospects, and again how players are evaluated and what that process looks like.
Speaker 2:So if you are a player that wants to be noticed, this is an episode for you, so let's get into it. My interview with Cam Robinson. All right, here we are for episode 139. We have Cam Robinson on the program, the director of content and director of film for Elite Prospects. Welcome to the show, cam. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Jason, looking forward to chatting. No, no worries. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Jason, looking forward to chatting. No, no worries, I like that you're branded up. You got the EP shoulder patch there. Why 16? Is that near and dear to?
Speaker 1:you yeah, you know it's actually my number growing up. I was a huge Trevor Linden fan when I was a kid, being a BC boy, and so I gravitated to 16 when I was a kid playing and, yeah, Leap Prospects. They just sent me this is for our EP Invitational that we run every year, and so the kids get these sweet jerseys. And so I was like guys, send me some of these jerseys. So they sent me four of them, one each color and one just happened to be 16. And so I was pretty stoked on that.
Speaker 2:You're like that one's going on right now I love it, perfect.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe I'll ask you about that. Maybe we'll start first just with being a BC boy watching the Canucks growing up. I'm a BC boy myself, I was born in Vernon, and so they were the first team that captured my heart. I think I'm a little bit older than you. I watched King Richard kind of take him to the final there as a five-year-old, right in 81. So that was Taggart Williams and all those guys. That was when I fell in love with the game and my parents knew for me personally that there was something with this kid, because for a five-year-old to sit right in the middle of the living room and watch every second of every game, they, they realized that I, I must have some affinity for this game. Uh, what years were you? Did your? Did your heart get captured?
Speaker 1:yeah. So I mean, you were the that 82 cup run. I was the 94 run. That really. You know my dad was always watching hockey when I was a kid and my grandpa and stuff, but I, you know, it was just kind of in the background for me. And then I got swept up in that 94 run and you know I was, I was a little late to it, so I was seven, I guess maybe just turned seven, and yeah, I remember, like I was after Bray scored the OT winner in round one.
Speaker 1:I think I spent the next four or five years out in my cul-de-sac doing it on rollerblades and game seven of the cup final. I was too nervous to watch. I'm outside shooting, shooting a ball against the garage door, my dad's coming out. You got to come inside. It was too stressful but yeah, so that was those, those, the flying skate Jersey, and that was that was kind of the start of it all for me. The flying skate jersey, and that was, uh, that was kind of the start of it all for me. And right, it's just turned into a lifelong obsession and a career and uh, yeah, it's funny how that happens there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my one of my ex-teammates uh, speaking of game seven there um was the guy who hit the crossbar uh nathan lafayette, nathan and you know what, who actually lives in vancouver now he, uh, he's there doing insurance work.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable human being, great guy, great family, great wife and uh, and yeah, I mean for his time there in the nhl. I played with him in the ahl but yeah, he was, he was part of that run and and had that shot and uh, anyways, I mean it's funny because in in canucks lore it's kind of looked upon as this like negative thing, but like like geez, everything about it. He did great. You know what I mean. It wasn't like he was supposed to score that. You know what I mean? Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:It was just that close, you know. Oh man, what a difference maker.
Speaker 1:I heard a funny story about Lafayette too, that when he was in St Louis is that Brett Hall was legendary, never coming off the ice, and so you know his whole line had changed and he's still out there. And the line had changed again and he's still out there and they're yelling at him to come to the bench and he finally starts getting to the bench and it's Lafayette about to come over and he goes not for this guy and he turns back around and stays on the ice. I guess Lafayette was just a young kid Like oh man, sits back down.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, I actually, uh, boy, I would love to brett hall be so fun to talk to, like I, kelly chase. I just saw a clip today. He was on uh missing curfew and and told uh told the story I don't know if you saw it or not, but he, he got traded, apparently at the deadline. Uh, one of the years he was in st louis. He was actually golfing with brett hall at the time he got traded.
Speaker 2:The deadline to montreal and uh and holly was on the golf course. Like you didn't get traded, you know, like you're not going anywhere and stay out here with me. And so he, like Chaser leaves, and who I played with in Toronto, by the way, chaser's a great guy too and uh, but anyways, I guess, yeah, so Chase leaves to go get informed that he's going to Montreal, like this trade's been done, and Hall, I guess, called when he was on his way and told the GM he's like if he's going, I'm going with him. And uh, anyways, and the whole, the whole trade got canceled because hall made the call to the gm. They reversed it, he's, and anyways, like kelly told a hilarious story.
Speaker 1:So I mean, there's so many brett hall stories.
Speaker 2:It's unbelievable, yeah what a legend.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious. He goes, I go. Well, they're roomies, right, I get their best buds. I love that that's Well.
Speaker 2:so did you play at all growing up, or were you just a fan?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I played. You know I AAA growing up and you know I remember I was highest, I went, was like 16, trying out for a local junior, a team and the Clippers there, and you know.
Speaker 1:I was one of the later cuts and they wanted me to move to Port Alberni to play junior B for their affiliate and I was like I'm not moving to Port Alberni at 16. And so I went back and played AAA for another year and I ended up, you know, quitting early just because I was young and want to hang out with my buddies and chase girls, and of course didn't live to regret that for the rest of my life. But I was never good enough to go pro anyways. But I probably could have milked a couple more seasons out anyway, Right, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome, seasons out anyway, right, right, yeah, awesome. And so now you're sitting in this ep chair like how did hockey become a part of something that you knew you wanted to? You know, keep a part of your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's uh, it's kind of as these things go, it's a it's a weird tale is that, you know, I was finishing university to be a school teacher and I had, with my wife, had just given birth to our first uh, my son, who is now a massive hockey fanatic. He's got his rep tryouts this afternoon, but you know. So we just had a newborn and, like a preemie, he came two months early and I just decided to write an article. So I wrote an article about Tarasenko and Jaden Schwartz and I just used some like advanced stats and just some interesting and I sent it into this website, dauber Hockey, the site that I like to go read, and I was like I don't know if you guys are interested, but I wrote this. And they're like this is great, do you want to work for us?
Speaker 1:And so by work, it was, you know, volunteer, basically. You know, like the pay was, you know, maybe buy yourself a cup of coffee every week on what they were paying me. And so did that and I hustled and I kind of EP noticed and they offered me a gig and then they made me exclusive and then this will be my second year I was able to walk away from teaching after 10 years and do this full time, and so now I work from home and I watch hockey and I talk about hockey and I coach hockey and it's like my entire world revolves around it and I couldn't be happier.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's fantastic. I love that. I love that grind piece too, because so many people aren't willing to do that, you know. So congrats on you for that. Oh, thanks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was, it was. There was definitely some grinding, for sure. You know, I'd be sitting there instead of marking or prepping, I'd be writing an article and then trying to mark some math, homework and right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the end, so yeah well, kevin peterson he was like my very first guest episode one, and he's now a pro scout for well not always an amateur scout for, uh, phoenix or utah, utah, yeah, I know, kevin. Yeah, yeah, okay, so, yes, you know. So he uh like to get into coaching because he never really played right and you know how it is. It's like it's a it's a bit of an inner circle there right with the old boys club of like, where you played and you know your connections and if you haven't played, it's kind of a harder room to get into. And and he just kept showing up at the arena, like that's what he said. I mean to get into coaching. He just kept being there and kept volunteering to help and kept, you know, going on the ice if somebody asked him to, and that turned into an assistant coach job, which turned into this, which turned into that right, and it's just, uh, you know you got to be around, right, you got to be around and you got to be visible and you got to want to uh provide value. Maybe when no one sees that, you have uh value to give back. You know, or I shouldn't say that they're not prepared to pay you yet, maybe at this point, but you're prepared to give value. So, um, yeah, that's an awesome, awesome strategy. I love that that got brought up.
Speaker 2:What um with elite prospects, and we talked a little bit of this off, uh, offline before. I mean, I'm excited to be involved with Elite Prospects. They're obviously a big name in hockey. My tournament, the UMH 68, is something that they wanted to partner with me on, and part of that was, you know, us having a conversation about Elite Prospects. So I'm really cool, like I love what they're about. I love what you guys are doing. Give me, maybe we'll start with that ep invitational. What, what, what is that event?
Speaker 1:and where is it hosted and what's it all about? Yeah, so, so with the invitational it runs every year and um, you know it's, it's something that we're we're really proud of. It started out as just a two-team thing, um, and it found some success and we moved it up to being four um, so we do it every april, I believe, and it's at mich, michigan State's arena, there, munn Arena, it's got 68 players. They come, they show their stuff. We've got scouts in the stands, we've got, you know, high level. You pull all these high level players from AAA prep schools, all these different places that are looking for, you know, exposure. They're looking. You know, can I find myself a Div 1 scholarship? Can I move on to the CHL? Like? Can scholarship? Can I move on to the CHL? Like, can I look to you know, end up being drafted, and you know so we've had some players end up being at the, at the invitational, and then working their way into NCAA or CHL and then getting drafted. So the it's only done it for a few years, but the success stories are starting to build up and we're starting to bring in more and more talent. So it's a really cool thing. They get, they get the exposure they get, you know, kind of the the sweet jerseys, and they get the whole elite prospects environment, and they get to meet some of our big wigs, and it's it's just a really cool event for some of these players that we, you know, at EP we've we've kind of started to try to mold ourselves into what we're calling like the gateway to hockey, you know, so kind of like your LinkedIn profile.
Speaker 1:For for hockey, though, though, and so, because not everybody is just going to walk into the chl and then a first round draft pick and then sign their elc, is that like for a lot of guys, it's, you know, grind it out through some junior hockey, you know, maybe getting the echl, and then you're moving overseas and you're trying to find a new home, or for kids that are, you know, coming out of their high school and they're like, you know, I'm not good enough to play d1, but maybe I can go play d3 somewhere and build my way up that way, and so, you know, we're kind of a matchmaker in that regard, and so we offer, offer players the opportunity to, you know, take control of their profile a little bit and add, basically like a resume to to sell to recruiters and to coaches and to scouts and and we know it, like we talk to, I have many contacts in all sorts of different leagues and and they rely on elite prospects.
Speaker 1:You know they the first thing they do is they let's go check them out on ep and you know, get the. They know they can trust the, the height and the weight and all the stats are going to be legitimate and they can contact people on there and they can see the videos and see some of their, their highlights and stuff like that too. So um, so yeah, for the invitational and our ep cup series. It's just more, more eyes on some of these players. And you know when I was, when I was young and playing, I remember going to like a WHL showcase at eight ranks there in the lower mainland and there's, you know, the Sutters are up there watching when they were in the West and all these NCAA clubs got their scouts there and you're like man, like time to show out right, and so it's just an opportunity for these kids to get on a bigger stage and kind of show what they got.
Speaker 2:Cool. And so you're identifying players for the like of NHL draftable age or what. What? What birth year are you looking at every?
Speaker 1:year For the invitational yeah, so those guys are going to be younger players? Yeah, and so so we do. I believe it's like you know I might be confusing it with the cup series, but we have like different levels, so they'll have like a U15, a U16, a U17. So, and, and a lot of it will be for, like, the USHL. So we'll have, you know, players that aren't quite like they're coming out of high school, they're coming out of prep school and they're looking for a spot on a USHL team and you know whether they might be draft eligible still, but they're not at that level to be drafted. But maybe they can get in and play their 18, no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fun, that's exciting, so yeah. So, when it comes to, I mean, elite prospects, it definitely is. I mean it's a database, right, you're on there, you see the tournaments that they've been to, you see who they played with, you know anyone, any teams they played for, all the stats that are aligned with that, uh, so it's. I mean I, I use it all the time as well, just to research players and then to see to see where they're at. Is this, uh, how do you find like that ecosystem working? Is it? Is it like player intensive, parent intensive? I mean, obviously there's more players and parents and coaches. So I mean, I would assume that the, the majority of players are either that or fans, I guess, that are using the site, or or do you know who the unique visitors are?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, I mean, fans make up a massive swath of it. But like, yes, players are, it's huge. And parents that fall in line with that, especially when they're younger, younger players, and and usually, like those, those are the people that are really invested and dedicated in either their own success or their son or daughter's success, right, um. So you know, hockey parents, they, they, they spare no expense to uh, to help their child, and you know, I've got my kid trying to rep here and we're doing everything we can to help them out. Um and uh, so, so it's really neat in that regard, and especially because now, like when I was growing up, like you know, ep's been around for 25 years um, you didn't get an elite prospect profile page when you played u13 or, you know, when you were playing junior b, um, like that didn't, that didn't land you a page. And now, like these kids, like there's nine years old and they're coming off the brick tournament, they're in edmonton, which I got to go to this year, which was a good time, um, and they've got their own ep pages right, like I, just just today I had an nhl scout text me. He's, like, you know, not our usual conversation here, but this is my son's ep page.
Speaker 1:I'm just wondering how come these stats aren't on there? You know, like, so I get it from everybody, right, parents? I get like on a tiktok video. I'll have some kid be like hey, my, my stats from November 4th aren't right. Can you change those? I'm like buddy, this is a TikTok video. Like, go hit us up on the right Avenue here and we'll get you sorted.
Speaker 1:But yeah, everybody is pretty well invested on making sure everything's up to date, you know, and these kids are growing quickly. So they're like hey, here's my advanced. I put on 10 pounds, like we got to get this updated. And and it's important to them too, right, especially as they're trying to move up the hockey ladder. And then even for people that kind of wash out, at whatever level, if it's D3 or if it's CHL or whatever and then they're like I want to stay in the game. How can I do that? Right, like, how can I transition into coaching, how can I transition into scouting, or something like that? And we also, you know, provide that kind of information to them too, which is which is kind of cool yeah, that's fun.
Speaker 2:How old's your son or what birth year is he he's?
Speaker 1:the 2015. Yeah, so he just turned nine there just a couple weeks ago. Yeah, so this is his first year he's that he's able to try out. This is the u11 the rep.
Speaker 2:The rep program here on the island.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and so he's. He's out there working. Yeah, there you go uh, what?
Speaker 2:uh, you're involved with the director of uh of film scouting, film scouting, film scouting. Talk to me about that aspect or that arm of EP, because I did take a look at the 2024 NHL draft guide and it was extensive, to say the least, super robust. What is your role in that draft guide and how does that work in the EP model?
Speaker 1:in that draft guide and how does that work in the ep? Uh, you know, model, yeah, so, um, my, my role, since I moved into full-time with elite prospects, is I wear like a ton of hats, and so, you know, director of, you know, content it's a pretty broad term and so you know, I'm responsible for all sorts of video creation, social media, editorial, um, I'm, you know, in every marketing meeting and all this stuff too. So which has, you know, inevitably it will impact how much I can watch um every year when I was just scouting um, so you know, I can't speak highly enough about the team that we have, uh, ringside. They're our scouting team, led, you know, by jd burke, mitch brown, david st louis. Like, we have an incredible group of maybe like eight or 10 of us. You know, we've got a guy in Finland, we got a guy in Sweden, we got a guy in Czechia, yeah, so we, we, we cover the globe, no one in Russia, but we have a sicko in the States there, dylan Griffin, that he, he watches so much MHL tape. I don't think it's healthy. And so, yeah, with with that for me, you know, I do, uh, primarily video scouting.
Speaker 1:Um, we submit game reports and player reports on every game we watch um, and then I'll go to these events. So you know, I was at the holenka last month, I was at the u18s in finland back in april, may and probably at the world juniors every year. And and then you know, ushl fall classic, and we do. We do so. We have someone at like every tournament. We have locals, you know, hitting up most of the chl ranks um. We got americans going to the ushl ranks um. So if there's a player out there, we've had eyes on them live um almost assuredly, unless they're playing in russia, um, or belarus maybe. And then you know we get just hundreds of reports on them through film as well.
Speaker 1:And so you know we spoke off air there about our draft guide and that's, you know, our flagship product um, editorially, um. And you know I have, I have director of amateur scoutings. I've had AGMs, and GMs tell me that like they get that product and they put it up in their war room right beside their their scouting reports too. And and you know it's it's. We've graduated several people to NHL gigs. We've had multiple other ones, myself included, have offers that we've turned down just because the situation at Elite Prospects has been tremendous.
Speaker 1:It allows us freedom and an opportunity to remain forward-facing and public-facing. For me personally, I like to be out there and share my opinion and get into discourse and have some fun with it too, where if I moved to the team side I would all of a sudden I'd be a ghost right, and I've had loads of friends move into that world and and uh, as the texts become fewer and fewer because they're afraid to share too much. Um, so yeah, I know it's, it's a great company, it's a great product. The draft guide, like it's so extensive, I think our our full copy with all the game reports is something like 2 000 pages on a pdf, and so this year we put in a like an amended light version, so all the information minus the game reports and the player reports. So if you don't care about what the kid did when he was 16, you can just get our synopsis on them and our tool breakdown and all that?
Speaker 2:Is that now thinking about the things you offer? And obviously I have three boys coming up too. I know as a player in back that when I, when I was playing 30 years ago, you there was no access to kind of what people were saying about you necessarily until, like, the nhl central scouting came out with whatever their snippet was. That was like the first time you could really see anything. I know things have changed dramatically since then, but would I, uh, or would my son let's say he's coming up to his draft year if he had a verified account or whatever account that would require that, could he see the reports that you guys are writing about him and potentially I mean either use them to his advantage or otherwise?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great question, and so up until this point he wouldn't see them. Until we released the guide, right, you know, three weeks before the draft or whenever we drop it, weeks before the draft or whenever we drop it. But we are just integrating them now where, as we like, upload them. They will then be uploaded onto that player's profile page. So if you're a premium member, then you would have access to that, and so if it's your own page, right, and you're, you can, then you would actually get to see, basically in like real time. So you could finish up a game, you know, maybe you pop two and two and one or something like that, and you can go into the dressing room and by the time I finish writing up my report, you can pull up your ep page and see what I had to say, and then you can come up there and give me shit on in press row or something like that.
Speaker 2:If you didn't like that's pretty cool, I think. I think that's great and for the right player that could be really valuable. I mean, for the wrong player it could have maybe adverse effects too, potentially right, but uh, but that's. I mean, that's the mindset side that I deal with all the time, but for some guys it's like they want the information, they want to know. That can be motivating, right, or it can be, uh, confirmatory or whatever the case may be, right, uh, to have that access. I think that's pretty, pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Um, we try to be sorry, we, we try to be like we're talking about teenagers here too, right, like oftentimes we're writing reports on 16, 17, 8 year old kids that eventually they're going to see, and so you know, we, we give our opinions and we share that, but like in a, in a professional and you know in a courteous way that. So you know, whereas the internet nowadays, like you said, it's not like it was 30 years ago. It's like you can be out there and you have a bad game and twitter's on fire, just like lighting you up and you know, coming after your family members or whatever, like that. So it's, you know, we keep it. We keep it PG in that regard. Yeah, no, that's great.
Speaker 2:Take a short break from the episode to remind you that if you are a hockey player and you are looking to get noticed, you are wanting to be scouted, to be evaluated, to be recognized for a future opportunity then you should be also working on your mindset. Half of what we are talking about here with Mr Robinson is the idea that we need to provide value to a team. In order to do that, you have to understand what you are. You have to excel at something, you have to be great at something and confident in something, and you also can't have any glaring weaknesses as well. Oftentimes our mindset is not supporting that goal and that dream of being evaluated and playing somewhere in the future. Oftentimes we are unclear on what we are great at. We are unclear on how we provide value. We are also clear on how to be confident enough on the ice to exhibit and showcase that value, which is why people like me exist to help you figure that out. So if you are someone that wants to work on their mindset, wants to take the mental fitness, the skill of mental fitness, to a new level, to understand some tools to put in your toolbox that can help you grow to be the best player you can be.
Speaker 2:I have programs running consistently around the Peak Potential Hockey Project, which is my mindset program that I designed. That is online. That is four weeks long. That can be taken in one of three ways. One by yourself it's called the solo mission. Two is the guided mission. That is, with a like-minded peer group from all over North America that will be taking the program at the same time as you are and we will get on coaching calls together. That happens to be the most popular way to take the program. And there's also the mentored mission, which is one-on-one with me, where we dive in specifically to you your toolkit, your tools and how do we maximize on what we have there and how do we grow and develop faster than others. So mindset is the new competitive advantage. It is the next thing. It is something that you should be looking at, diving into and practicing if you want to be your best player. And if you want to do that, you're in the right spot. Upmyhockeycom is where you can find out any of the things that I just chatted about. If you are listening to this episode essentially live when it first drops we have a guided mission lucky you starting in one week dropping on September 30th 2024. You can check my website for any upcoming launches of guided missions, but, yes, we are seven days away from a launch. There is a mindset quiz in the top right corner of my website. It allows you to take a five-minute quiz to get a letter grade on where you are standing at right now and potentially to talk about those results with me and see if you are the right person to get involved in my mindset program.
Speaker 2:So, with that being said, let's get back to the conversation with Cam Robinson, since you touched on that and you're writing reports and you mentioned two and one and one of the things that I deal with with athletes hockey players all the time is the stat line and how important that is, and I mean, there's there's so many things to unpack with this in and of itself, because you know we're talking about EP, and what do you see?
Speaker 2:Right, you see a snapshot of numbers on a line that is supposed to may be an example of your season, right? So, like there is, there is an immense amount of importance to the numbers, but the game is much more than the numbers and and I think when, when you're watching the game, I I assume that that's also some of these things that you're looking for. When I'm talking with athletes, I'm like you got to focus on the B's and C's of what gets you the goals and the assists right, and that is generally what's going to do you favors to have that stat line look better at the end of the day. But maybe I'll digress just to that fact. Like you know, you do recognize two goals and assists. You mentioned it already in your thing. However, how do you break down an athlete's performance during a game? What are the things you're looking for?
Speaker 1:I mean to be honest with you, like, I'd say, like half the time in a report I'm not even mentioning the production, right? Unless it was something like you know. Oh, and at the end of the day, he had four primary helpers, right? But I've already probably talked about what he did to be successful, to set up those plays. And so, yes, at the end of the day, you know, numbers will matter, right? Especially if you're like a high-end player and you're being compared against other high-end players. It's like, yes, this guy's got all these tools, he's so speedy, so smart, but why doesn't he produce, right? Like that would be a question mark and you'd be like that would kind of put you.
Speaker 1:But for the most part it's you know it's skating. Skating is everything at this point in the game. If you can't skate, you can't keep up. But I mean, as important as that is, there are ways to be successful even without that pillar, and eventually you're going to have to get it to a certain level. But then it's intelligence, right. So are you able to look two, three steps ahead? Are you assessing before you go? Retrieve that dump in, right? Do you know which winger wall is going to be clogged up and can you break that coverage when you're under duress? Um, and so, being able to think quicker than the game, the level that you are at is going to afford you all sorts of opportunities, right, it's going to set you up for some space to make a play, to make a play yourself, to move it with your feet, to move with a pass, um. So skating and iq are massive. Um, obviously, puck skills are great. They're fun to watch, they help you produce, um, a big shot, all those things.
Speaker 1:But, like, for me, that's like secondary on the hierarchy of what we're looking for, and you know, my, my evaluations have, they've evolved and, and I hope they continue to evolve right, like I, I feel like I'm a far better talent evaluator now than I was five years ago, and and a big part of that is asking questions, listening. So I'm fortunate enough to have a whole bunch of, you know, professionals who've been doing this for 25, 30 years, um, that have high ranking positions to you know to bounce things off of you know to to pick their brain, and so that's what NHL scouts are looking for too. They're looking for people who and right on that top hierarchy is, you know, effort, right, do you look to the heavens or slump your head when something goes wrong, right, or do you get back on the back? Check, you know, are you coachable? Are you able to? Can you see progression throughout the year where it's like this is a deficiency in a player and, oh, look, by Christmas it's starting to get cleaned up. Oh, by April it's now become a strength? And we want to see that, even if there's still warts in your game, you're able to understand a limitation, find a way to improve it and then take steps to improve it.
Speaker 1:And so those are, for my money, are all more important than someone who can drop a Michigan, you know mid game or or dance through an opponent every once in a while. But you know that's kind of all pizzazz and not a lot of substance at times, and we see a lot of that with some of these. Kids are like exceptionally talented and you watch them in practice and you're like good Lord. And then you put them in a game and they're not as effective and because they can't put that all together with that kind of will to to get in there and muck about and come out with the puck and think two steps ahead and so, uh, it's. You know, I can sit here and talk about it all day or write a couple books about it, but uh, it's an ever-evolving process. That kind of follows where the game is going and at this point speed and iq are kind of the two pillars of the game yeah, the speed.
Speaker 2:As I'm listening to you, I'm like kind of thinking from my own experience and what I see, maybe more at a youth level and coming up, and I'm also a bit of a deep thinker when it comes to like the whys of how this is happening and the IQ piece to me has degenerated and hasn't evolved in my opinion. Do you agree with that? First of all all, or do you disagree?
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, I, I in. In some ways I do agree with you. Um, is that? Because, like I just mentioned, is that, like there's a lot of players that are just like hyper focused on individual skill, which is counterintuitive to being an intelligent player, because I would say, nine times out of ten, the best play is to move the puck right.
Speaker 1:It's, it's we hear it from every minor hockey coach you've ever had is right, you can't skate faster than the puck, right? So if you can, if you can move the puck effectively and and recognize time and space on ice, then you're going to be effective and you're going to be able to pick apart defensive schemes. And so, in that sense, yes, I would. I would agree that, as there's parts of it, but then there's also because there's just like some of these kids are coming up with so many ice sessions like skills coaches and they're getting looks at higher levels, at such they're coming up and they're so nuanced and they're so polished at such a young age where I think that that is something that is fairly new in the last 10 to 15 years and it continues to come through.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, it's yes and no yeah, yeah, no, I, yeah, I mean I and that's sort of what I have seen. I think that there's been such an emphasis on individual skill development, and I mean physical skill development, and also I think that it correlates with the new YouTube TikTok splash highlight generation. Right, like even at the NHL level. Right, like everyone loves the one where the guy skates to the neutral zone and beats the defenseman and then beats the goalie and then it's a beautiful goal. Right, like even at the nhl level. Right, like everyone loves the one where the guy skates to the neutral zone and beats the defenseman and then beats the goalie and then it's a beautiful goal. Right, like he's probably skated the puck past three options, you know, at that point and isn't really the best hockey play. The funny thing is with mcdavid I will have a caveat there when he does that, there's usually nobody open yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is yeah hockey play, right, yeah, but I think kids are so conditioned to see that this is what they're supposed to do that there's very few people that are actually looking for time for space, for the opening, how to draw guys, how to draw two guys to give to somebody else who doesn't have anything right. And for me, when I'm evaluating, it's like I love when I see that because it's like boy. This is relatively rare and if he does have a skill set package that goes on with that head, it's like boy, I'll, I'll hitch my, my, uh, my carriage to that pony any day of the week. Um, so, anyways, that's me, my evaluation.
Speaker 2:But you also talked about effort and you also talked about, um, I mean these things like body language. Now, these are things that I, like, I preach right in my in I I call it mindset, I mean some people would call it character, but to me it falls under the umbrella of mindset and kind of the holistic athlete, which is super important to me. Now, I do watch for that and it does mean something to me. Do you think, like, is there a divide when it comes to things like that as far as body language, attitude, how they treat teammates, like how much is that overlooked? How much is it emphasized? Does it depend on the organization like, can you, can you give me your, your summary of that?
Speaker 1:yeah.
Speaker 1:So, and this comes into where we talk about, like, uh, film versus live viewings, where when you're in house and you can really key in on a player and you can watch him off, you know, whereas if it's on camera and they move away from that player, you don't get to see how he reacted to a bad player when he gets to the bench after missing an open net and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Um. So it's, it's funny because there is almost like it's like a double-edged sword where if the player is like someone like jt miller, right, who's like, considered like a really emotionally invested player, he's, he's fiery and you know he can sometimes push it a little too far, right, yelling at his own teammates or like overreacting, and that's okay because he's a fiery, spirited player and you want that in the playoffs, right, versus if it's a really like skilled player who maybe isn't laying the body, isn't hard on the back check, isn't killing, um, and he's, you know, breaking his stick over the goal post because he missed an open net, or he's back on the bench and he's pissed off because he didn't get enough shifts. Now it's, now it's character. Right now he's got poor character, um, or one player could be a leader and he's showing. He's showing why he's a leader and the other one is, you know, selfish and and not a team guy.
Speaker 1:Um so, so it is, it is true they both can be true, you know they can and, and usually you're going to know that from being around the player, being around the team, being around the organization, because you can tell when someone is a leader and he's doing it, maybe to fire them up, right, maybe it's a flat game and it's like you know what. I'm gonna break my stick over the boards here and it's gonna wake you guys up, right, I'm already awake. I'm going um versus it's like you know what. I'm going to break my stick over the boards here and it's going to wake you guys up, right, I'm already awake. I'm going um versus it being like pouting and doing it because something's not going your way. So it can definitely be be true, but as you're, you know, that's kind of, once you're in the pros, right, when you're coming up, it's like you want to, especially if you're not, you know, pinged as an, a rated prospect.
Speaker 1:It's that you need.
Speaker 1:You need to have everything going on your, on your side, and so if that is leadership, you better make it clear that it's that it's leadership, right, you're picking your spots very calculated, right, which is difficult to do when it's an emotional thing, um, but yeah, so, especially at an elite youth age like I don't want to see no-transcript open head.
Speaker 1:I saw it, we all saw it, but it doesn't do you any good to look up and stare at the sky, put your hands on your head right, or go back and blow the kick the door closed or whatever, and you're all pissed off. So, um, yeah, character, that whole, that whole mindset I think is is really, really important and something that I I feel like kids are being at least coached at at a younger age. The importance of it, um, whether or not they can really harness it and grasp it at such a young age is so difficult to do, and but you're just hoping to at least get those lessons in them early enough that they can find a way, when they start to mature, and get control of their emotions a little bit through their teenage and twenties. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, I mean there's. There's an emotional maturation that happens. I mean, like we at our age we recognize it in ourselves even, right that that it happens. But a lot of the time with the work that I do, like there is a foundational element to like why that response is happening too.
Speaker 2:Right, like are there, could be embarrassed because they missed the open net. There they could be, you know, they could be worried about what other people are thinking of them when, when they missed the open net, they could be really pissed off at themselves because they're a super, super competitive kid. You know what I mean and that's and that's the way they respond. So it's like for me, like the psychology of that is super interesting and and it's not a one-size-fits-all, right, I mean. So I think that's the really interesting part about scouting is like how do you attach that emotion to that personality and what does it mean? Right, because if he is super competitive, it might look the exact same as the guy who's really selfish and wanted that hat trick, right? Um, did you watch mathis preston play at all in his uh, venom draft? Or at all, at any point, no no, no, I, I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't get to see those kids with the, the young prep reps, age ones, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, so, anyways, just for the, I was going to bring him up just cause he was. I think he was third overall and then he played at OHA. It's just, and he, uh, he also is an emotional player and and, and watching him like that'd be an interesting one, because I I did hear that there was people that thought that maybe potentially selfish, maybe emotionally immature, like I saw. What I saw was like a firecracker. I saw a kid that, like, really wanted to do amazing and was super competitive and just hadn't really got to the spot where he could smooth that out yet.
Speaker 2:You know, and um, and for me, I like that because I think in the game there needs to be a little bit more of it uh, for the for the most part, um, and I like to see that competitive nature and I'd rather celebrate it than try, and you know, uh, extinguish it. So, uh, how do you feel with that compete aspect in today's game? Um, again, I I've I've seen a little bit more recently at that level, like a whl camp that I went to, uh, some discussions with people that have been to them. Geez, it's a different game. Um, when it comes to that, in my mind, like, uh is compete, something that's celebrated in your evaluations in mine.
Speaker 1:It is absolutely, and and you know you look at some of the most successful people, and not even in sport, but in life in general. And and you know you look at some of the most successful people, and not even in sport, but in life in general, and and you know they are often highly confident, right, they, the self-belief is like through the roof and highly competitive, and like in in hockey, like we, we don't just, like you know, accept it, we encourage it. Right, like this is like you know it's all these references to like's like war, right, you're going into the corners and you're against your enemy and you got to come out with the puck, no matter what. And it is like it's little, little one-on-one battles all over the ice, right from the face off, um, and it is it's like you need to be hyper competitive. Every puck is yours, right, they have the puck, that's my puck, I want it back. And so you know we, we breed this into these players, but then, yeah, we might, you know, then we might shun them because they are too competitive, right, like now, they lost it, now, they've lost their emotions, and it's again we're talking about kids for the most part here too right where they don't have. They can't regulate like I'm a school teacher for 10 years like these kids can't regulate their emotions.
Speaker 1:You know, in pe class, let alone like in a hyper competitive, where they, you know, they have aspirations right, whether it's the NHL or it's to play pro or to go to school, whatever it is, they have goals that they want to achieve and, like you know who's who's watching, I need to be my best and if I'm not, like God right, so no, I I appreciate, I appreciate the work ethic Absolutely. And then, you know, which is something I've gotten a little bit more throughout, this is getting an opportunity to like sit down and like get to know these kids, even a little bit, and they're so well-trained for the most part. But I find that like I can have just like more like flowing conversations with them where it's not like, hey, I'm in, we're sitting at the combine and you're, you got your GM's there and you got your suit on and you're trying to give canned answers as best you can, is it? You try to the coach about them, see what kind of player they are right, like and are they? Are they in the gym? Are they doing extra stuff?
Speaker 1:Because, basically, like you know, having a skills coach and shooting 100 pucks a day, that's bare minimum for elite junior hockey, like, uh, youth hockey these days, right. Like where, how hard are you working, you know? Are you already interested in your nutrition, right? Are you making sure you're getting your, your enough protein a day? Are you hitting the weight room? Are you taking rest days when you need them? Are you being smart about it? Um, and so that all goes into that work ethic package that sets them up to be successful on the ice too. So it's, uh, it's a full-time job right off the hop for some of these kids that actually have have the will and and the skill to potentially turn this into a career where, um, I mean, I didn't, I didn't play pro, but, uh, but I'm not sure it was like that 30 years ago when you were coming up no, it definitely wasn't.
Speaker 2:You know, it definitely wasn't. It was a new thing. I've done some thinking on that too. It's kind of crazy because like that the they're much more polished, they're much more professional now. Like my son and this is no word of a lie, and I played 10 years pro and at the highest level he is more of a professional now with his approach to his day than I ever was. You know, like and he's 15 years old, like I can't believe how committed he is to his, his skillset, like his growth, his development, his training, his social life. You know what I mean. Like is not there at all. Right, like I'm actually like hey man, like go out. You know what I mean, what I mean. Like you're 15. No, like, that's not his thing. Like he's, he's dialed right to a point that I think it's kind of fanatical, but I mean that's the way he is. And who am I to say, right, like he has a dream and he's chasing it like, I think that's. I think that's fantastic, it's commendable. Yeah, it's commendable and it's amazing. There's nothing bad about that at all.
Speaker 2:The funny part when I look back is like I I do feel during our time like yeah, we drank more beer than we should have and, yeah, we did some of the things we weren't supposed to do, but, holy shit, did we compete? You know, and I think that there was a level of that, like even the fact of like, can you get home at 2 or 30 in the morning and then show up at nine o'clock and and go to work? You mean, can you do that without having an excuse? You know, can you get things done when things aren't going well, like? I think, like that whole resiliency, grit kind of persona was just a little bit more ingrained than I see in the guys coming up now and and I'm not really sure why or what the difference is there. But yes, to your point, 100% more polished, 100% more committed to their craft, um, but I do see a little bit sometimes with the higher level kids that they're, they're pretty easy to get thrown off course sometimes when some adversity shows up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you know and this is obviously painting a generation with a broad brush and that's not for everybody, but again, you know from my work in hockey, from my work as an educator, is that you know there is some entitlement, I would say, in this kind of next crop of youth coming up, where they do expect everything to kind of the path to be nice and paved for them to write.
Speaker 1:And it's true, right, like, just even in regular life, could you, could you go out, party in that night and wake up at 6am and go to your job and do your job well, and then go do it again the next night, Like, do you in you, where now I'll just call them sick, right, take, take the easy road, or whatever. Um, and and you're right, I do I do think that there is some more entitlement, some more looking for the easy way out. Everything should be, and you know, not to say that life is is easier for this generation. It's probably harder now with technology and things that cost and job opportunities and everything is getting harder and harder. Um, and it is same with sport, right, like it's harder to be a pro athlete now than it was 30 years ago and that was harder than it was 20 years before that. And so it's just because they're so polished, because they're so skilled, because it's such a global event now where everyone has access to these high level coaches um, is that it's it?
Speaker 1:it is, it's a gauntlet, so, yeah, it's a good to your son, though, to being, you know, to being so dedicated, because not everybody is, and there's loads of kids out there who have never been cut from a team, have never had anyone say no to them. You know, they come from a wealthy background, their family and everything's handed to them. It's all great, and now, eventually, they are going to hit that roadblock, and are they going to have that ability to withstand that adversity and push through it? Or is that when the rails are going to come off and that kid who had to fight through the whole way is going to pass them?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, boy, you sound like a commercial for me, to be honest, like, and that is what I see more and I and I just see like, instead of like, the leash on our kids has been way shorter. Like, even if, like, I consider myself a free range parent, I think for the most part, you mean, for lack of a way to describe it like I want my kids to go out and explore the world and test rules and see where they fit, and have them scratch their knee and get up and figure it out Right, be, be problem solvers. But even to the extent that I want to do that, you kind of can't. Now you know what I mean. Just the way, the way life is, the way society is the way society is the way, the way that things are, so for the, for the majority of kids, like it is like the the path has been there, let alone bulldozer parents, it's like you know, pave the way right. Like I don't want any adversity and and and they don't have the tools is what I'm trying to get at.
Speaker 2:Like it's not that it's inherently they can't do it, but they haven't been given the tools to be able to have the self-belief to be able to have the confidence, to be able to have the self-belief, to be able to have the confidence, to be able to have the resiliency because they know they can handle it. So then, when something does come up, there is this lack of empowerment, because they really don't know, they're flounder a little bit, right. So, yeah, I mean that's the one thing like a cautionary tale to the parents there who I mean, you know, if you have money, you know, you know what you know, know where your kid has been, whether he's ever been cut, whether it's been easy for him the whole way. Like I promise you it's not going to be easy the entire way, like it's not. It's impossible for it to be easy the entire way. And that is when the defining moment comes in for a lot of these players. Is then, what next? Yeah, right what?
Speaker 1:no, no for sure. And and you know personally, like I try to, I'm trying to bring my kids up with that and it's not an easy thing, but like. So I was asked to coach this rep team here locally and I just said, only if my kid makes it like he's not on this team because you've asked me to coach, right, and he makes it on his own merit, and I told him to you know, you're not getting on this team just because they want me to coach it. Coach you on this team down here, right, the one you do make, and uh, and so that's just. You have to experience.
Speaker 1:I remember being cut from from teams and it breaks your heart. But what do you do with it? Right? Do you then give up or do you turn that into motivation? I'm gonna go shoot another 100 pucks a day. I'm gonna get stronger, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna do my squats, I'm gonna, you know, work on it so that next year they have they can't cut me. I'm gonna make it so they can't do it right. And so that's just gonna build that character. That's gonna fuel them throughout hockey and hopefully throughout whatever else they do in their life, because the vast majority of these kids aren't gonna play pro, right, they're gonna. They're gonna end up being the future generations and all sorts of economy, of businesses and things like that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, no, I really appreciate you you mentioning that and uh, and yeah, I mean, and that is like the to put maybe a bow on it and what you were talking there with the idea of, yes, these players my son included right, like I work with athletes, my son is one of these athletes. They want to be in nhl or who doesn't right their hands up in the air and he's doing what he can to make it happen. But the realism of this whole thing is he is developing himself as a human being. He's established a goal. He's understand there's obstacles in the way. He understands it's a competitive environment. He understands that he needs to get better, that he wasn't maybe, you know, gifted with God's touch, that you know he is one of the elite from a young age, so he has to catch players.
Speaker 2:He understands the value of teammates and and and the relationships required for him to, to, to be good at anything that it's not an individual event. And guess what? If it doesn't work out for him, he takes all that stuff with him wherever the hell he's going so like. I am so grateful for the game, just that our kids, my kids, have found something that they love and they aspire to do and they get all these amazing lessons and and I think with what I do as a, as a mindset coach, like if we can round out the human, I say behind the athlete, I mean we've won a hundred percent right, because they have a better chance to get what they want. And if they don't get what they want, hey, hopefully we've created a better human, who's who's an awesome community member, who's who's inspiring others and is and is doing good things.
Speaker 1:So yeah, for success in another avenue. Right, that's the key, that's what we're trying to get for these kids. And then you know now that I'm not teaching. I get to do that just purely coaching, which is really cool because it's it's kind of all the fun of teaching. Just in that I'm still trying to shape these young kids into being proper humans right Like that's that's, that's the mindset and that's what we, you know.
Speaker 1:That's why my parents put me in sports. Keep them out of trouble, keep him busy. Oh shoot, he really loves it. Now he wants to do it seven days a week, all right, well, I guess that's what we're doing. But you know, it's it's. It's.
Speaker 2:It teaches you lessons, right and across all sport too so you talked about your, your growth as an evaluator and as a scout and and that you're different than you were, uh, you know, five years ago, and I think that's amazing. I can try and I can try, can get. Can you to get better, of course, in what I'm doing as well? I was just thinking like in that realm. So, you know, when you're playing in a sandbox that has NHL central scouting, that has you know, these other, these other entities that do their own rankings, let alone like the teams do their own rankings, how apt are you to like, see or to look over your shoulder and, and you know, wonder, hey, hey, do I got this player wrong or should I come back to the field a little bit like, how did that happen for you and where are you at now with your own?
Speaker 1:you know evolution with that yeah, just like in sport, learning how to have self-confidence and belief in yourself. It is a process and so you know, early on I would, I would take that you know that popular consensus or hey, like this person I really respect thinks this, even though I don't. I'm like he's probably right because he's done this longer and he knows more than I do. So I'll just change my opinion and so I have this. One example is uh, 2017.
Speaker 1:I didn't really like Nolan Patrick's game. I probably, I think I would have liked them around like the 10 or 11 spot, but everyone in their dog had them one or two. And so I'm like, obviously I'm wrong. If, if everybody sees it like this and I see it like this, then then I'm I'm wrong. And so I put them third. I was like I'll hedge a bit and I'll put them three and I put Haskin in it too. And uh, and I and I, I hated it, I regretted it. Like even before Patrick's career kind of got derailed with injury there is that I didn't. I didn't like respect that I did that. And so I kind of had a little chat with myself. I was like don't do it Like, this is, this is how you see it, and then, if you're wrong, you learn from that down the road and you make those adjustments.
Speaker 1:And so then 2020 came around, and it was a Lafreniere draft, or maybe it was 19. And I really liked Quentin Byfield and I thought that Byfield was the best player in five or six years. It didn't matter who was the best player at 17. I'm looking at who's going to be the best player when they're in their peak and throughout their NHL career, and so I think I was the only person on earth who didn't have Lafreniere won that draft. And so I by field and I took heat for it, and I just kept saying I was like, in 10 years, I'm either going to be the smartest guy in the room or I'm going to look like an idiot, and I'll learn from it either way. And so the jury is still out. But but we'll see. We'll check back in in a few years and see how it worked out. But so I've I've changed that in my philosophy.
Speaker 1:Know, with the scouts at ep, we don't all agree on things, right? We're constantly arguing and banging the table for a player, and why? You know why? Why? Why asking those questions? Okay, you see this, I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna look for it. I still don't see it, I'm not buying it. And so you know, we come out with our own draft board and we're gonna drop a 2025 one here next month or first one of the year. Um, we've already got like over a thousand game reports on this class already, which is crazy, um, and and you know we won't agree, but then at the end of the year I I'm one of the fortunate people that is allowed to drop his own personal ranking with elite prospects. So myself and Mitch Brown are the only ones that get to do that, and so you get to see here's what we think as a group, and then here's what I think on my own, and then again we can find out who's right down the line and then you know whoever else has got to buy me a beer.
Speaker 2:I think there's a great lesson, though, even in what you're saying and maybe it's obvious, but maybe it isn't. Is that like, if you're a player out there, just somebody needs to like you not everybody, you know and and like your game is your game and double down on what you're great at. That's the thing that I I always tell the players I'm working at understand how you provide value, first of all, because there's going to be a unique skillset that you have, that that somebody needs and that somebody is going to value more than somebody else. And then, obviously, don't have a handicap or a weakness that is going to keep you out of the conversation, right? You can't be completely deficient in something. So, like, double down on what you're good at and then let the things go, you know, I mean like you have to be able to let it go, because everyone's going to have a different opinion and uh, and it just takes one, you know. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:Maybe you can speak to that for the for those out there listening no, you're absolutely right, and we talk about that when I get asked about like, oh, where's this guy going to be drafted, where's he going to be projected? And it's like, oh, you know, we like him in this spot, but all it takes is one team, right, one team to see you at a certain event where they see you shine in an area that they value. Right, and because it is like the across the board, you know 32 NHL teams. Their lists are wildly different, wildly different, right? Maybe at the top it's going to be very similar, but like throughout the way, like it's crazy, because they all value different things, they all see these players at different times, and so you never know who's watching.
Speaker 1:But you exactly right is that you find what can I bring to the table and how can I best maximize that right? So, if you're a stay-at-home defenseman, who cares if you end up with 12 points in the season, did you allow seven when you're on the ice? Right, like are you out there? Just, you know shutting down everybody because that's what matters, and so going to your EP page might not be so impressive, but the people who know what they're looking for see you right, there's nowhere to hide anymore. If you're good and you're talented enough at a certain level, you will be found. And so, and that's just, and that's again believing in yourself and having an understanding of what you can and cannot do, right, and that's another thing that I look for is that, like this, player understands where they can succeed and they maximize it right. They understand their limitations and they try to limit how it impacts their game, and so, again, that comes into their IQ, which is like your hockey awareness, or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2:It's such a blanket statement, but it's encompasses so much in the game just going to take a short break from episode 139 with Cam Robinson to give a shout out to our sponsors here for this episode, which is is Elite Prospects, the gateway to hockey Online. Since 1999, eliteprospectscom is the number one statistical hockey resource, serving over a million unique visitors weekly. It offers the most informative hockey player database on the web and has the most reliable transaction tracker available. For youth hockey players, ep is your very own online showcase to highlight your achievements and help secure future playing opportunities. Coaches, scouts and schools at every level of the game, consider Elite Prospects their one-stop shop to discover future stars, hockey fan, crazy about the NHL, the draft and your team's top prospects. There is no better place than EP Rinkside providing insight and analysis on players worldwide through written features, video breakdowns, interviews and more. Head to EliteProspectscom now and experience your gateway to hockey.
Speaker 2:Now let's get back to episode 139 with Cam Robinson.
Speaker 2:I've said it here in the program before, but I mean it's not that rare for a third-line guy at the WHL to be a good third-line guy at the AHL, to be a good third-line guy at the NHL level and by what I mean by that is like never really played the power play, never been more than a point of game player. Right, we have this idea in our head that the best players are the players with the most points. Now, that's not always true when it comes to when we're actually figuring out how to provide value to a team. Right, and I guess that is one of the things you are trying to evaluate too. I mean, is the point of game in the WHL going to correlate to what I mean as a pro? Or is the guy who has 30 points in 60 games but gets all the pucks out along the half ball and knows how to get in on the forecheck and cause disturbances and turnovers is that guy more likely to actually be an NHL player? Maybe talk about how you view those two scenarios.
Speaker 1:No for sure that's. That's a really great question. And and something that I've, you know, an AGM and a former player, and he said basically to me is like you know, what's he going to be? What's he going to be? What kind of players is this guy going to be in the NHL? And so you look at them and so it might be this like really wizard, like offensive player in junior, but what's he going to be at the NHL level? Is he good enough to play a top six job in the NHL? Is he going to get power play one? Because if he's not, what's he bringing to the table Versus, like you said, that player who learned how to be an energy line guy in junior, to kill penalties, to make the smart plays, to always get the puck out, to always get the puck in, and now you hone those skills throughout junior and now you're doing it in pro hockey and you're building your way up.
Speaker 1:You look at that player and you'd be like that guy could be a penalty killer, that guy could be a bottom six player in the nhl, even though he's far less dynamic than this guy over here who plays all the top minutes in junior but won't as soon as he turns pro. Um, so absolutely right is that know where you're going and and maximize, right. And if you are a skilled player and you recognize like hey, I'm not as skilled as some of these other guys, like you, better add something to your game. Right, you need to bring something unique.
Speaker 1:And so, for players, I think it's the same question. You need to ask yourselves what am I going to be at the next level? And if you can't answer that, you better revisit what you're doing and try to add some more layers to your game. Because you're like, hey, I, I don't think I'm gonna get power play one time when I move out of junior here. I better add some penalty killing. I better ask my coach like, hey, let me work on the face off, like let me be that guy in the d zone to win those draws, for you to get the puck out and be killing penalties and be down. You know, when we're down a goal, I'm out there trying to score, but I'm also down there when we're protecting a lead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's so crazy too. I mean, I love you talking about that. I talk about building out your toolkit right and trying to be as diverse as you can, really. I mean, the more positions you can play, the better.
Speaker 2:It's also tough to put ceilings on kids, though, too. Isn't it right To say, like you can't be this? I mean, I think the vast majority of guys who are are power play guys in the WHL and, you know, see themselves in the top 20 and the scoring leaders. There's never been any reason for them not to doubt that they could be a top guy in the NHL or AHL, right? They don't, really. They don't think that way. Um, I'm not sure if they should either. It's kind of so crazy, like when I'm working with that, right it it should be you, right? But? But I know you from a, from an evaluation standpoint like that is what we're, what we're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 2:You know, when it comes to that and it comes to exposure and people are very worried about leagues. You know that they play in and and and where, and and? How do you? Where do you put the hierarchy? You're from the West coast here. Like is it? Is it WHL? Like is it? Is it WHL? The number one league to scout to would be BCJHL, or like how do you? How do you do that as far as your routes are concerned?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I'm. I'm like a glorified crossover scout, so I, I scout all over the world, so I get the I'm fortunate enough which isn't primarily how NHL teams work. They will have crossover guys, or, like a team like Carolina, will have their regions, but by the end of the year they're all crossover scouts. They all have to get eyes on everybody at least a few times. So, you know, for me it's, it's really it's cyclical, whether it's the dove one year and the OHL the next year, or maybe it's. You know, the USHL is really coming up and and it's becoming a really nice feeder league. Kids are moving to school early, so the NCAA is producing all these draft eligible prospects. Now too, you know, kicking over to Europe, the J20 in Sweden it's becoming, you know, even on the bigger ice sheet it's becoming, you know, a little more honed in, a little more. It's got a little jam, a little grit to their game. So these kids are better prepared to step into the Olsvenskan or the SHL before crossing over, and and they're better prepared. You know, finland, finland was really coming up and I see like dark times coming out of finland right now is that, you know, they've got a few classes that are going to be really underdeveloped on skill, and so a country like slovakia or czechia is climbing up that ladder. So it's you're like I said is that don't worry so much about where you're playing within reason.
Speaker 1:Um, if you're playing at a high enough level, you will be found, and if you're succeeding, and so for a player that maybe they're playing in the OHL, it's like you know their dream is to their local kid, they want to play for the London Knights. You know, a powerhouse right. No-transcript player. Or, conversely, right. If you're not quite able to move up to the WHL, go play in the BC, go light it up in junior eight and go take that college route, right. Or take an extra year. Don't try to make the league as a 16-year-old. Come out in your draft year.
Speaker 1:You know, like Tarek Perisak did this year with Prince George, he was a rookie, scored 40 goals in the dub and he ended up being an early pick. So there's different routes for everybody. I mean, I go back to the one where Alex Edler was a third-rounder to Vancouver. There he was playing, but it's kind of insulting to the, to the swedish third tier, but you know, basically a glorified beer league like it's, you know, but but he was found, he's. If you're good enough, they're gonna get out there, they're gonna watch you, they're gonna see and they're gonna be like this kid's good, we're gonna take it, we're gonna take a swing at them and that was 20 years ago then too, so right yeah, that's uh, yeah that's fun.
Speaker 2:Is there any uh stories I mean we're talking about like comparing rankings and stuff like the one that I mean I guess everybody noticed anyone who watched the draft was that bennett seneca who all of a sudden, anaheim takes a what's looked like a massive flyer, um, and took him three, where I didn't see anyone ranked him anywhere inside the top 10 to my knowledge. Uh, I thought that was like what a brave move by anaheim. Um, in that scenario, maybe speak to that pick or any other things that you kind of surprised you from this draft. Um, when it comes to 2024 nhl draft, yeah, seneca.
Speaker 1:He was a fun one because you know this is a kid who put on something like four inches in the, you know the year before getting selected there in vegas, um, so he was a smaller player like 510, and had to use his hands and his creativity to kind of go weave through the the giants there, um, and then all of a sudden he starts shooting up. He starts shooting up, you know he's 6-2, he's 6-3, so he's, he looks a little gangly out there, but he still has all those skills and his developmental arc was just spiking as the season wore on, um, and so it was funny. You know we had them. We had them pretty high at ep. I'd have to look. I feel like we did have them top 10.
Speaker 1:I had them top 10 personally, but right before the draft, like days leading up to it, you know I'm out there working the phones and trying to find out like who's who's picking who, see if I can break this early, and you know, trying to find out where damadoff's gonna go, and and you know I kept, I kept just hearing like watch out, like watch out for Seneca, watch out for Seneca.
Speaker 1:He's a climber. And so eventually, like I was on with Colby Armstrong on Chicklets, there right before on the draft floor, and he said give me your top six picks. And I rattled them off, six in a row and they ended up going right. And I was just like each one, just like when I got Seneca and I called him at three whoa. And then it shows him and his face was shocked right and he drops like he couldn't even believe it, and there's a great picture of him and I standing on the draft floor in vegas and I'm talking to him like I was like you're a little surprised there, becca, and he's like man. Like I was like yeah, you should have been following me on twitter. I called this like an hour ago.
Speaker 2:He's like you did like wow, good for that, so funny and this is not planned for everyone. Listening I we, I had no idea so the fact that I bring up uh seneca is hilarious, so you called it holy smokes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I called seneca three yeah because seneca had no idea.
Speaker 2:You could tell like his response was so authentic and so awesome, right like, oh man, cool with them. What gave you the hint on on anaheim? Why do you think anaheim was going to pull the trigger?
Speaker 1:well, I mean and, and I didn't, and I didn't, and and sometimes, you know, I'm fortunate enough to have some people that'll be like, yeah, this is what's going to happen, and and and you get some of that kind of stuff. But but this one is just like it was. I was just kind of fitting the pieces together. That Anaheim they marched to the beat of their own drum, Fantilli, you know. They took Mason McTavish there at two and everybody thought it was gonna be somebody else and like I love that they are willing to do that and I had heard that they had, you know, gone out and watched him a lot down the stretch, um, and that they were, that they were interested in that type of player, and I just kind of like it wasn't a for sure when I called it, but I was like I like the chances of this we knew Caden Lindstrom to to CBJ was like nearly a lock.
Speaker 1:That was kind of a the the worst kept secret in hockey at that point and that meant that demidoff was going to fall all the way to montreal and whether they're going to take him or not, that was kind of a question too, after passing on mishka the year before, and so just kind of fitting all the puzzle pieces in. It made sense. And then utah with tj ginla. There I was just lucky to kind of throw a dart and be like watch out for t chair and uh, landed at six. So, um, I was trying, I was harassing jerome to see if he's like I don't know who's gonna pick on me, and he couldn't give me anything either, but yeah all right, yeah, so put on your gm hat now.
Speaker 2:I've always thought this was interesting. The one I thought was really interesting was when um cider went. Um, that was a few years ago, where I mean a lot of guys didn't have until like late in the first round like 20 something and and eiserman stepped up and took him six or whatever it was there and and when that happened I was like, okay, like, and it turned out to be a great pick. Obviously moritz is is fantastic and he and he probably should would maybe go higher in a redraft right uh, even than that now, yeah, but at the time, like why wouldn't like a spot every spot is worth something, right.
Speaker 2:Like why wouldn't have eisenman gone to 10 or gone to 12 and maybe got another first round? Or like, are they? I guess you don't know what everyone else is going to do. But okay, you're the gm like and you're our anaheim gm. Bennett is your guy. Seneca, you're at three. You don't think anyone's going to be taking them till I don't know when do you trade down?
Speaker 1:I absolutely do, if I can do it now. The the trouble is is that teams will rarely trade into the top 10 right or move up that far because the cost is so prohibitive. Is that you know, if you said, like, if you're Pat Verbeek and you're like I'm going to move from three to five right, just slide back a couple spots, so Montreal, they're probably interested, they want Demidoff. And you're like I'm going to move from three to five right, just slide back a couple of spots, so Montreal, they're probably interested, they want Demidoff and they're like, you can maybe, like you know, fake it a little bit and be like we're going to take Demidoff unless you don't jump up into this spot. What do they have to give you right Like cause to move up those two spots? That might cost you next year's first right.
Speaker 1:But I'm a huge proponent of GM sliding back and Carolina, they're the masters of it. They did it this year. They liked a player when they were picking it. Whatever they were picking 27 this year. But they're like, we like them, but we like this other player too. Let's see if we can slide back to 33 or 34 and still get the guy we like. And they did, and so now they got themselves a free second round pick. They got the guy they liked anyways, and they pick up another second rounder in the process and they just do that all day.
Speaker 1:It slows down the draft, it kills everybody. I'm always joking with their scouts. I mean, you guys make this a five-hour event on day two because they're just always sliding back and they get incredible value and and it's it's, you know, it's kind of like being a big league hitter where even the best in the world you know you're, you're, you're getting a hit like 35% of the time Right, and so that's the way it is with scouting too. So it's darts how many darts can you throw? And some of them are bound to hit. And now, when you're at the top of the draft, it's like you fall in love with the player and you don't want to risk losing them.
Speaker 1:And so for a player like Moritz Seider, a big, powerful right shot defenseman I'm sure Iserman probably kicked the tires on sliding back a little bit, but whether he wasn't going to get value, because if you move back and then you lose on that player, now you need to consider that trade as okay. We lost. We basically traded cider for this new player plus this pick, and is that worth it to us? Or do we actually believe that he's going to be our number one D for the next 15 years? Okay, we're just going to take him at six. So it's easy to say when I'm not on the hot seat and I'm not a GM making those calls. But in general I'm a big proponent of sliding back and getting more assets, because there's more darts, the better. Right, and that's the scouts mind probably too.
Speaker 1:The scouts are like yeah, give us more picks to make, right yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I think that's the business side of it too, I think I'd be in that boat too. Most likely I think I'd be in that boat too. Most likely. I think I'd be trying to maximize as much as I could. You know, I made him play the risk associated potentially with with what would be happening. On the downside. There was Macklin Celebrini just automatic no brainer. Like what was he's that good? Yeah, no brainer.
Speaker 1:He's, he's, you know, we've. We made the joke where it's like, if Sidini, like he is exceptional, uh, coming into the year there was, you know, maybe maybe someone, because you never know what can happen over the course of a draft eligible season, if someone can take huge strides and really catch up. But he just separated himself even as a draft minus one. It was such a massive separation and then he just continued to make that gap further now, whereas this year this is James Hagen's draft year and I do think he's going to go one, but it is far from a slam dunk here in September that there will be players that will compete with him, and number two is wide open right now. So there's gonna be a whole swath of players are going to fight for that spot and I wouldn't be surprised if one or two really take a run at Hagans and make teams. You know, think about it anyways, right and with him.
Speaker 2:Like I didn't watch Celebrini at all at the NCAA level, I mean his points speak for themselves. I didn't watch celebrating at all at the ncaa level, I mean, his points speak for themselves. I, I didn't. I didn't see one one shift, so I can't speak to that. But I did watch him at the world junior. Um, what was like, not like it wasn't bedard, like that's for sure. You know. Like, where do you like? Where do you like? What does the world junior mean to you in that environment? I guess in of itself, because it is just a snapshot of a kid at a certain point in time, right, and maybe can just mean that. But he wasn't like, I wasn't as excited for him. I'm not as excited to see him in the NHL as I was for Bedard, mostly because of what the hell was happening there his junior year and also what he did there at the World Juniors. So, yeah, talk to me about his.
Speaker 1:Sabrina a sobering performance there, yeah. So I was fortunate I was in Sweden for the World Juniors last year and he was very, very good. Still, the Canadian team just wasn't as good as it was the year with Badar, where he had I think that was Stankoven's year, it might have been the year before that, but he had assets. So Dylan Gunther, like he had all these young, like our older players to him, these 19 olds that were dynamic and this, that iteration of canada wasn't as strong and consequently they got bounced early right, but he so he only played four games. I was still really tempted to put him on my all-star ballot, yeah, because he was that good in in his game as like a super young 17 year old, like his birthday july, I think um, he's just turned 18 now like he was, he was the player on that Canadian team. He was strong, he was smart, he was positionally really sound, defensively really strong and he had he did have some wow moments. But you know, let's not get it twisted. He is not Conor Bedard, uh, offensively now, at the end of the day, when you're looking at them and they're 25 and 24 years old or 28 and 27 or whatever, there's a world where Celebrini could be almost as important, almost as impactful with his all around game, just like there was a time where, you know, people said, you know, is Jonathan Tate's like as good as Sidney Crosby? Right, he never had anywhere near the offensive skill that Crosby had, but because he was so impressive defensively to go along with plus rated offense, it put him into that new world and I think Celebrini is a more dynamic offensive player than a kid.
Speaker 1:Like tapes I was like. I mean he put up like 70 plus points in the NCAA at 17,. Like Hobie Baker at 17. Like it's crazy. And so, even though he had the down world juniors quote unquote where he didn't pop and break records. I do think he's going to be an extremely talented player. But you know, am I going to call for 30 goals and 65, 70 points this year, like I was looking for from a dart last year? No, I'm not right. It's going to be a slower burn, I think, as he comes out this way and so that's.
Speaker 2:I mean I was trying to say that. Tell my kids that you mean I I don't know if you know I played in the world junior in 96, right as a 19 year old, I think I. I mean, I was an early birthday, to February, so I was almost 20, right, and and it's a 19 year old tournament. I mean for the most part, I mean for these, for these guys that do play in that at 17, against the best 19 year olds in the world, right like two year difference, and for them to do that. Well, like what Bedard did that year was absolutely like mind blowing to me.
Speaker 2:And I'm not even really like I wouldn't call myself a badard fan. Um, like I like him you know what I mean, but it's not like I'm a fanboy of him or whatever, but like that, that that whole thing was like crazy to me that he could do that in that competition. Um, it was like, how could you not deny him, right? It was like, well, this is just crazy, so he has to be that good, I guess yeah, yeah, he has.
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean, we didn't see McDavid do that at the same. We didn't see Crosby, they didn't, nobody, basically, since Gretzky has a 17 as a draft eligible to really just go bananas like that. It is unheard of. So I'm not at my. Were you part of the five in a row, the golds? Yeah, we were the fourth, you were the fourth. You're the four? Yeah, nice, I was wondering if that was four or five. Yeah, that must have been a heck of a time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was fun. It was our year, which was really cool. Actually, it was the first year that it went to the current format, like with the semifinal final, yeah, or actually I don't think there was a quarterfinal, I think there was a bye at the time. Yeah was fun because it was actually, like you know, a gold medal game and and previously there wasn't right. So we had the first gold medal game, which was super cool, and uh, I'm gonna always have some great memories from that.
Speaker 2:He may again lives down this road for me and I see him here from time to time and he was the top forward in that tournament and you know jose theodore was there anyways, whatever, a bunch of a bunch of good players, right, it was definitely, definitely a career highlight. Uh, when it comes to when it comes to this year's draft, you mentioned the name. Where's that guy even from? I'm not that familiar with this year's draft class yet Higgins.
Speaker 1:Yeah, james Higgins, he's an American kid so he's played with the program there, us National Team the last two years. He played with the under-18s and so I was in Finland for the world's under-18s there last spring and, like good Lord, he was incredible, so he broke the records for points in single tournament scoring, dynamic throughout the entire event, and it was basically him and McKenna, so Gavin McKenna for the Canadians, who you know is still a draft minus one now, so he's a D minus two then, and they were going head to head. And then in the gold medal game maybe the best game I've ever been to live um, canada was down three as kid trevor connelly took a bad penalty, got a major and canada scored and then scored again and then ended up taking the lead and they won it. Um and mckenna was dynamic and got, I think, four or five points and so he he didn't end up passing haggins for the points, but you know they were going head to head. But you know I got a chance to like spend a little bit of times with haggins too and you know, really polished, speaker, intelligent, you know you can tell players gravitate to him, um, and then like highly, highly skilled. So now he's off to boston college and so everybody thought will smith was going to stick around for another year, even though he led the nation in scoring last year.
Speaker 1:So he's coming out, going to san jose and haggins gets to slide right into a spot, so he's going to get to play with perot and ryan leonard. There too, you know highly skilled first rounders, and so he's going to be put in a position to succeed, and so that's why I think that it's, at the end of the day, it will be his spot to lose that top spot. Um, because you know that boston college team is going to run for a national championship and he's going to get all the fun minutes and he's probably going to put up monster point totals too. And it's like how is a player like you know matt schaefer, who's a exceptional defenseman, smooth skating, how's he going to compete against that right? Like he's gonna have to put up 100 points and on the back end to try to like rival that kind of production. So it will be.
Speaker 1:It will be difficult to unseat haiggins, but really he's a very impressive player. But again, he's not Bedard and he's not Celebrini too. So it's we're getting into that kind of next level of first overall picks where you know Nico Hischer and those type of players right going to be quite good but maybe not like superstar who's the top Canadian or the top couple Canadian?
Speaker 1:well, probably, probably Schaefer. He's my favorite, so a defenseman there playing in the O and I him at the helenka, um, and he was incredible, like so he was a rookie last year, obviously in in the ohl and um the skating is like supreme, like it is very, very elusive skater and and loves to jump in the russian again. So it was gavin mckenna and him were. You know, mckenna was basically like he was looking for shaver every time he was on the ice, even though he was a defense. So cause they were the best players and so working off of each other, and so he's, he's a really talented player. Roger McQueen he's like a six foot five power, right, I believe he's a right shot center playing in the West. Yeah, brandon, that's right. And then Porter Martone really good kid, he was the captain that U18 team for Canada. Six foot three power winger, has some electric to his hands as well, but like I think he's going to develop into more of like a two-way with some offensive, like some high-end offensive upside too, and another just like great kid, hilarious kid, it was funny.
Speaker 1:After they won the the u18s um, you know the game ends, we're at the rink until midnight or whatever, and then got to be the airport at 4 am to catch our flight home from finland. And so there I am, and, and TJ Ginla was on that team, and so Jerome was over working with Calgary and watching his son, and so I'd been hanging out with them a little bit. And I run into Jerome and we're laughing and talking and no one's slept yet and we get there and so I'm hanging out with all these Canadian kids and Martone's giving me the championship trophy. So I got a picture of me in the airport holding the U18 trophy and they were all on the flight back together and I'm sitting next to him, and a really good kid too. So, um, I those, those guys are probably going to be looking at. You know, most of the top five this year, barring some, some kids really surprising and jumping out.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool, that's great. Uh, maybe last question so, uh, just for I don't know, I think players would be interested, maybe parents too. You, you show up at a game. You let's say I don't know what would be a good league, it doesn't matter, bchl, whl, whatever. Do you just circle the 17 year olds or like, how do you do your reports? Because there's a lot of players on the ice, I guess not everyone's draft eligible, of course. So that's going to narrow it down. From what you're looking at, there's going to be 16 year olds there. There's also going to be 18 year olds out there that maybe weren't drafted the previous year. How does that look like for you and how do you key in on on who you're going to be writing about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so teams will do it differently. So some, some teams expect to report on everybody whether it's a sentence, you know like even if it's a kid who's been drafted, because that then goes into the pro scouting side of things. And, you know, maybe we'll look back on that in five years if we want to trade for them or sign them or whatever. But for me personally, yeah, I key in. I usually go to a game with like a few players in mind that I really want to watch, and then they're all going to be draft eligibles, because I have my hands full with just the current draft class.
Speaker 1:But you can't help. You're watching the game, right? So if someone's doing something really well or something not so well, then you're going to be making notes on them too. Especially if it's a young kid, like a d minus two or d minus one coming up, um, you know, probably I'll put a little more emphasis on getting some reports on them, because we know it's going to be a build-up to the draft, versus, like a kid who was drafted in the second round already.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm probably not going to take any notes on him, but like a kid who was passed over and has himself a strong game. Yeah, he'll be getting a report too, right, because you know these kids were seeing it more and more A late bloomer. They're even sneaking into like the top 50, top 60 in the NHL draft if they can pop and have a really strong season. Or they're a middle rounder right Like an. Anthony Romani went in the fifth this year after putting up like 110 in the O after being passed over. It's like you can ports on those kids too, so I uh, that's cool, I'm looking for kids to do something, show something the uh.
Speaker 2:The episode that just got released yesterday was josh doan, so, um, you know, there's a perfect example he didn't get, didn't get drafted and turns out to be a second rounder the next year. Like it's rare, but it's becoming more common. I think too.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, sure, I think tanner pearson, maybe he was a first when he snuck in too right after being a draft passed over. So you can do it right Again. Like it's. You can't hide If you're good enough. They're sort of what the, what the vision seems to be like for you guys, is to get in at the youth level.
Speaker 2:You know, allow it to be a. You know the the gateway as you, as you are calling it you know to hockey and so have these young athletes get immersed in it. You know, fall in love with the stat line and the tracking, and you know you can get in an ep uh, a hole, right, wormhole pretty easy, right. I know I've done it myself too, just following my own career and different people's paths and where they go and who you played with. So it's a lot of fun. And then I really like the involvement in the grassroots stuff, like the UMH 68. I mean, thank you guys again for wanting to be involved in that and also your own development stuff. It's cool. I appreciate you sharing that with me and all the insight for the, for the evaluations, and my audience appreciates that as well. So, cam, thanks so much for joining us. Any last words of wisdom you want to you want to give to some of the athletes out there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, get your head down back, check right. Just always be working, just work hard and we'll find you. Yeah, it matters Awesome.
Speaker 2:All right, man. Well, best of luck with the season this year. I know you're going to be have a lot of fun chasing uh, chasing kids around and getting your reports in, and, uh, I know you love what you do, so good luck with that. Thank you for listening to this episode, thank you for being here till the end and thank you, cam, for being a part of it. And thank you, elite Prospects, for being a valued partner with Up my Hockey and the UMH 68. So get over there to UMH. No, well, you can check that out too if you want to UMH 68 on the Up my Hockey website. Or what I meant to say was go to EliteProspectscom, see your profile there, verify it if you can Get a premium account, if you can, and take advantage of everything that Elite Prospects has to offer.
Speaker 2:I know that I have been lost on Elite Prospects more than once by jumping from team to team. When you're a suitcase like me, you can get lost in a rabbit hole real quick by looking at old teammates, where they played, who they played with, what kind of careers they have, what was their best season, who was that with? What was their coach at that time? Oh, my goodness, if you are a bit of a hockey geek, like I am, you can totally have a great time on Elite Prospects. And it's also fun to see the current players as well, obviously the young players. Where have they played? What type of resume do they have as they came up through the ranks and maybe they're draft eligible this year and where did they play and who do they play for and what kind of stats did they put up? So lots of fun there. Elite prospects is a great is a great hockey resource and, and again, a valued partner of up my hockey. So until next time, you play hard and keep your head up.